Andrija Balic and Nikola Vlasic (both of Hajduk Split)

[jambreck]

http://sportske.jutarnji.hr/financi...iju--balica--ali-su-roditelji-protiv/1189009/

Here they say Hajduk doesn't have anything against a sale at a reasonable price while the player's parents are against him leaving so soon.

Groundhog Day.

 

[SFCS]

This is actually the scenario I was hoping for. I don't want Baldini in charge of scouting, as his eye for talent has now been questioned at just about every club he's been associated with and he also seems unamenable to coming to an agreement with managers on a concrete plan. However, he is apparently a fantastic negotiator with excellent skills in making and keeping contacts. If Broomfield is given the responsibility of highlighting players, and Baldini with securing them, then I think it's an excellent tandem going forward.

Has Baldini ever been in charge of deciding who we buy though? I think this is a huge misconception, the hiring of Baldini had more to do with Levy not having the time to co-ordinate everything at the club. Even before Baldini joined Pleat was used as a consultant from time to time along with the committee chipping in and several others. As I understood Baldini was in charge of the scouts in the sense that he was organising them, communicating with them and then filtering out the interesting stuff for Levy and the rest.

Of course he had his say, his footballing knowledge and experience is always valuable but everyone assumes that our summer signings were all Baldini's targets. In truth the little that is out there, about the players we signed, suggests otherwise. We bid for Soldado the summer before we signed him(he gave an interverview saying as much), Sherwood reckons he's been telling Levy about Eriksen for years, Capoue was linked with us long before he joined and Willian, who we almost signed, was also a longterm target for us. And as I've already mentioned, Baldini brought structure to our scouting and one of his changes was that players had to be scouted for a long period if we are to make a significant investment in the player. So basically Baldini's changes to scouting wouldn't be significant at such and early stage. Maybe he was using his Roma scouts work in identifying targets for us, it's very possible, but he wasn't pointing at names on lists saying "we need him", he was likely compiling the lists to be discussed.


But you're right, it is good to see Baldini flying out to negotiate with clubs because that's his job and it is good to see that he's not off talent spotting because that's not his job. He wasn't in Croatia to watch the players as much as meet the important people and build up a relationship. Levy can't spend all his summers flying around to clubs to negotiate transfers and you can't always do deals just over the phone. Baldini is our get shit done man and more on top of that but he's not any kind of talent spotter, he'd have quit the day Bloomfield signed if he was.

 

[SFCS]

Oh and something about the Croatians..

Ermm.. don't really no much about them but it'd be good to have a guy called Nicola at our club again. Not so sure about Ballitch.

 

[DaSpurs]

Has Baldini ever been in charge of deciding who we buy though? I think this is a huge misconception, the hiring of Baldini had more to do with Levy not having the time to co-ordinate everything at the club. Even before Baldini joined Pleat was used as a consultant from time to time along with the committee chipping in and several others. As I understood Baldini was in charge of the scouts in the sense that he was organising them, communicating with them and then filtering out the interesting stuff for Levy and the rest.

Of course he had his say, his footballing knowledge and experience is always valuable but everyone assumes that our summer signings were all Baldini's targets. In truth the little that is out there, about the players we signed, suggests otherwise. We bid for Soldado the summer before we signed him(he gave an interverview saying as much), Sherwood reckons he's been telling Levy about Eriksen for years, Capoue was linked with us long before he joined and Willian, who we almost signed, was also a longterm target for us. And as I've already mentioned, Baldini brought structure to our scouting and one of his changes was that players had to be scouted for a long period if we are to make a significant investment in the player. So basically Baldini's changes to scouting wouldn't be significant at such and early stage. Maybe he was using his Roma scouts work in identifying targets for us, it's very possible, but he wasn't pointing at names on lists saying "we need him", he was likely compiling the lists to be discussed.


But you're right, it is good to see Baldini flying out to negotiate with clubs because that's his job and it is good to see that he's not off talent spotting because that's not his job. He wasn't in Croatia to watch the players as much as meet the important people and build up a relationship. Levy can't spend all his summers flying around to clubs to negotiate transfers and you can't always do deals just over the phone. Baldini is our get shit done man and more on top of that but he's not any kind of talent spotter, he'd have quit the day Bloomfield signed if he was.

The list of players you've cited are indeed players that cited AVB as the reason that they came (Paulinho as well), but your list doesn't include Lamela or Chadli (AVB also apparently didn't rate Eriksen). Lamela obviously came from the club Baldini had just left and Roma were said to be a bit strapped for cash at the time, and Chadli was certainly said to be Baldini's selection. Each had several choices that they wanted, while AVB was stuck with a few players he didn't want. When you have 100 mil+ at your disposal, to me it would make absolute sense to have the manager and top scout precisely on the same page as far as strategy, squad needs to accomplish this strategy, and individual players who might satisfy these needs based on suitability. Unfortunately we have nothing concrete at the moment to confirm all this one way or the other, but there was quite a bit of ITK at the time suggesting the disagreements between the two. While this is certainly not a confirmation, that much smoke is more often than not an indication of fire.

Whether the information about the disagreement is true or speculation or none of the above, I still maintain that the evidence is overwhelmingly against Baldini considering we aren't even the first club to feature fans disapproving of his talent scope. I made my hesitations known quite a bit on here why I wasn't keen on Lamela (as of yet those reasons have yet to be dispelled), and Chadli was an unusual acquisition considering we had zero comfortable left wingers at the time and not many people had heard of him. I for one am very pleased to see Levy go all out to bring Broomfield back, as that man's track record for identifying talent is unquestionable.

 

[Snarfalicious]

I love the idea of bringing some young Croatian talent to the lane, but it does seem like pretty substantial money for a guy who has hardly broken through at Hadjuk, yet. He may be incredibly talented, but that is a hefty sum. On the flip side, I guess if you wait too long and he does break through, his price could double.

Hopefully the scouting nails it and we find another gem from Croatia.

 

[DaSpurs]

I love the idea of bringing some young Croatian talent to the lane, but it does seem like pretty substantial money for a guy who has hardly broken through at Hadjuk, yet. He may be incredibly talented, but that is a hefty sum. On the flip side, I guess if you wait too long and he does break through, his price could double.

Hopefully the scouting nails it and we find another gem from Croatia.

Yeah on first sight it does appear a bit steep, but you have to remember the Croatians can point to a solid recent track record of generating top talent that also has a consistent record of success upon moves to top clubs. I.e. they can basically say, pay up now or someone will later. Given the extent of which the Bundesliga and Serie A clubs have already gotten in on it, and now Barca with Halilovic, the demand and consequentially prices will only rise from here on. And as I said about Broomfield, if he highlights a player and manages to convince Levy to even flirt with the idea of parting with a few million quid for a couple 16 year olds, I'm all for supporting it.

 

[SFCS]

The list of players you've cited are indeed players that cited AVB as the reason that they came (Paulinho as well), but your list doesn't include Lamela or Chadli (AVB also apparently didn't rate Eriksen). Lamela obviously came from the club Baldini had just left and Roma were said to be a bit strapped for cash at the time, and Chadli was certainly said to be Baldini's selection. Each had several choices that they wanted, while AVB was stuck with a few players he didn't want. When you have 100 mil+ at your disposal, to me it would make absolute sense to have the manager and top scout precisely on the same page as far as strategy, squad needs to accomplish this strategy, and individual players who might satisfy these needs based on suitability. Unfortunately we have nothing concrete at the moment to confirm all this one way or the other, but there was quite a bit of ITK at the time suggesting the disagreements between the two. While this is certainly not a confirmation, that much smoke is more often than not an indication of fire.

Whether the information about the disagreement is true or speculation or none of the above, I still maintain that the evidence is overwhelmingly against Baldini considering we aren't even the first club to feature fans disapproving of his talent scope. I made my hesitations known quite a bit on here why I wasn't keen on Lamela (as of yet those reasons have yet to be dispelled), and Chadli was an unusual acquisition considering we had zero comfortable left wingers at the time and not many people had heard of him. I for one am very pleased to see Levy go all out to bring Broomfield back, as that man's track record for identifying talent is unquestionable.

I must admit, I don't remember the ITK on Baldini and AVB falling out last summer. They both wanted Willian and Villa, they only disagreed on the choice of Lamela or Hulk.

Anyway, my points were that several of our signings were targeted before Baldini arrived and so couldn't be his signings, like people seem to think, Baldini's role is an important one and we did not sign him as any kind of talent scout. Baldini was a voice at the table, he wasn't making the decisions anymore than Sherwood was, or AVB was, or any scout was. Nothing Baldini has actually done suggests he's been given Levy's cheque book to go and sign all the players he wants to sign, it's just a misunderstanding of his role that makes people believe that. It's a bit like when Arnesen went to Chelsea, I bet he still had a say in their transfers but that's not what he was brought in to do, he was their oversee youth development primarily as I recall.

 

[DaSpurs]

I must admit, I don't remember the ITK on Baldini and AVB falling out last summer. They both wanted Willian and Villa, they only disagreed on the choice of Lamela or Hulk.

Anyway, my points were that several of our signings were targeted before Baldini arrived and so couldn't be his signings, like people seem to think, Baldini's role is an important one and we did not sign him as any kind of talent scout. Baldini was a voice at the table, he wasn't making the decisions anymore than Sherwood was, or AVB was, or any scout was. Nothing Baldini has actually done suggests he's been given Levy's cheque book to go and sign all the players he wants to sign, it's just a misunderstanding of his role that makes people believe that. It's a bit like when Arnesen went to Chelsea, I bet he still had a say in their transfers but that's not what he was brought in to do, he was their oversee youth development primarily as I recall.

No one said they had a "falling out," including myself, but what is clear is that they didn't have an agreed upon plan which is criminal IMO given the amount of cash they had at their disposal and how vital it was we address the needs of the squad with that money and the expectations it would inevitably bring. I also agreed with you that not all of the signings made were Baldini's, but some were, and it could easily be argued that they were questionable indeed aside from Eriksen (who in reality was a player we had long been linked with since well before Baldini anyway).

There is a middle ground between being "given Levy's cheque book to go and sign all the players he wants to sign" and the limited amount of clout you seem to think he had. He was brought in verbatim with intent to emulate the "continental system" sense of a football director, which does indeed mean he had a greater say at the table than anyone, including even the manager, if the responsibilities were outlined according to such a cited format. So unless the club was lying about why they brought Baldini in, even if in a reduced state from the literal sense of the position, it is only logical therefore that he receive some of the blame for the signings. This, in congruence with the notion that his eye for talent has not been questioned for the first time by Spurs fans, is enough for me to stand by my original post in our discussion that he should not be in any decision-maker's role on talent if he stays and especially now that Broomfield is back.

 

[Barry Mead]

I love the idea of bringing some young Croatian talent to the lane, but it does seem like pretty substantial money for a guy who has hardly broken through at Hadjuk, yet. He may be incredibly talented, but that is a hefty sum. On the flip side, I guess if you wait too long and he does break through, his price could double.

Hopefully the scouting nails it and we find another gem from Croatia.

That should be fairly easy to sort out by having a fair amount based on realistic expectation add ons, if the players prove decent then they get a better deal but we are happy that the players will have developed

 

[SFCS]

No one said they had a "falling out," including myself, but what is clear is that they didn't have an agreed upon plan which is criminal IMO given the amount of cash they had at their disposal and how vital it was we address the needs of the squad with that money and the expectations it would inevitably bring. I also agreed with you that not all of the signings made were Baldini's, but some were, and it could easily be argued that they were questionable indeed aside from Eriksen (who in reality was a player we had long been linked with since well before Baldini anyway).

There is a middle ground between being "given Levy's cheque book to go and sign all the players he wants to sign" and the limited amount of clout you seem to think he had. He was brought in verbatim with intent to emulate the "continental system" sense of a football director, which does indeed mean he had a greater say at the table than anyone, including even the manager, if the responsibilities were outlined according to such a cited format. So unless the club was lying about why they brought Baldini in, even if in a reduced state from the literal sense of the position, it is only logical therefore that he receive some of the blame for the signings. This, in congruence with the notion that his eye for talent has not been questioned for the first time by Spurs fans, is enough for me to stand by my original post in our discussion that he should not be in any decision-maker's role on talent if he stays and especially now that Broomfield is back.

They did have a plan but it was blown out of the water when Real declared a willingness to bid a World record fee for Bale. At that point it's a case of signing players before everyone starts charging double.

I still think you're missing the point, as DoF of course he has a say in transfers but he's still only a voice at a table and he'd only been there a month at the point we realised we needed to replace Bale and spend a lot of money in doing so. It doesn't suit Baldini or any DoF to come into a club and immediately overhaul the squad.

If you want to blame him for some of the transfers, tell me specifically who he bought and why they were a waste of money. Until then we're flogging a dead horse here.

 

[DaSpurs]

They did have a plan but it was blown out of the water when Real declared a willingness to bid a World record fee for Bale. At that point it's a case of signing players before everyone starts charging double.

I still think you're missing the point, as DoF of course he has a say in transfers but he's still only a voice at a table and he'd only been there a month at the point we realised we needed to replace Bale and spend a lot of money in doing so. It doesn't suit Baldini or any DoF to come into a club and immediately overhaul the squad.

If you want to blame him for some of the transfers, tell me specifically who he bought and why they were a waste of money. Until then we're flogging a dead horse here.

I can assure you I understand your point perfectly, and I addressed the same in my second paragraph. So in truth, it seems you didn't understand mine. If you need me to clarify that paragraph in counter to your point, I'd be happy to. Once again, I never insinuated he was tasked with "overhauling the entire squad," but the problem lies in that he did not get on the same page with the manager and he did not choose players when given the reins that were actually suitable to our needs.

You're convinced they had a plan? You see our left back and left winger situations, even as far as numbers, and think they had a concrete plan in place even if you think the club didn't believe they'd sell Bale toward the very end? After Bale went inverted, we had one player on the left wing being played out of position, and we addressed this by buying one discount player from the Dutch league. On top of all this, we decide to drop close to thirty million pounds on a player who had one decent season in Serie A to play on a side that already had two players capable of performing in the Prem. We then decided to forge ahead with one senior left back at the club while AVB cites the backup from Vertonghen and Naughton. Indeed, we went ahead with a new young player starting in the position, with backup of our best CB being played in a position more conducive to injury (lo, behold what happened sure enough in the Europa) and a RB whose cameos at LB have been mediocre at the very best.

All of that is alone suggestive enough to me that they did not have a plan, or at least a decent one. With even the potential of that kind of money on the horizon, they should've had a much better plan including access to options laid out. "Waste of money" is also far more extreme than I'm suggesting, as they're all solid players in their own right, but simply that they were not the best options given what we needed positionally and for game strategy already in place. There are options we realistically could've bought for less money than we spent and that would've resulted in a more balanced squad. They screwed the pooch last summer, and I for one am very pleased to see Levy address it by going well out of his way to bring Broomfield back.

 

[Dinpomp]

http://www.slobodnadalmacija.hr/Haj...ype/ArticleView/articleId/244060/Default.aspx


According to Croatian paper Slobodna Dalmacija Franco Baldini was in Split yesterday to hold talks with Hajduk over a potential move for their very talented midfielder, Andrija Balic (16-years-old). They mention a fee of 1.5m euros. He was in the stands today to watch him as Hajduk's juniors (U19) played Split's U19. The player who stood out is Hajduk's other very talented 16-year-old, Nikola Vlasic (who is the younger brother of Olympic high-jumper Blanka Vlasic). In the game Vlasic scored 2 long range goals and the report writes that Spurs are also interested in him.

Balic and Vlasic are Hajduk's two most talented players within their youth ranks. Both were part of the recent Croatia U18 vs. England U18 friendlies a couple of months ago (Vlasic scored in one of those matches). Both have played some games/minutes with Hajduk's senior side this season. Hajduk fans and those who follow their youth teams rave about these kids. They have for a while now.

Balic is very good on the ball, a central midfielder who has excellent technique and can spot a pass. Vlasic is physically very gifted and plays more as an attacking midfielder. He has a very good shot and has scored a number of goals from outside the area. They both started the year with Hajduk's cadets (U17) but since the winter break have been playing primarily for the U19's and some time with the senior side.

They are definitely Hajduk's two most talented at that age group, but also amongst Croatia's as well.

One of Vlasic's goals from yesterday's match:

 

[Real_madyidd]

Meh.

Bostock.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Interesting that Baldini is still scouring Europe which suggests that he's not being edged out right now, also interesting that Ajax have been following this lad although it would seem a stretch that FDB had mentioned him, but who knows, if negotiations are far more advanced than the club want to let on it might be a possibility
Either way it's good that we are keeping our eyes out for promising youngsters

This could work nicely for us. We snag FDB and then also get this Croatian kid then, as a way of saying thank you to Ajax, we loan them the Croatian kid for a year or two to help him mature and get some proper coaching.

 

[Barry Mead]

This could work nicely for us. We snag FDB and then also get this Croatian kid then, as a way of saying thank you to Ajax, we loan them the Croatian kid for a year or two to help him mature and get some proper coaching.

Yeah that's not a bad plan at all, like that

 

[beats1]

He couldn't have scouted Modric for us, Luka was at the club under Ramos before Harry took over and Harry brought Broomfield in a while after he took over.

I think you are right that the others were his suggestions and Suarez looked pretty much on the cards till Messrs Ferdinand and Sherwood put their foot in it

That isn't true mate, just check the ITK at the time who was at fault for that its been known for years. Apparently Broomfield isn't a harry man despite always working with him, he also suggested Oscar the season before he signed, Hazard, Sandro, Mata before the european championships and etc.

 

[DaSpurs]

This could work nicely for us. We snag FDB and then also get this Croatian kid then, as a way of saying thank you to Ajax, we loan them the Croatian kid for a year or two to help him mature and get some proper coaching.

Well I assume the kids would be slotting into our academy program and likewise Ajax', but I do love the plan. All sorts of win from our perspective.

 

[Barry Mead]

That isn't true mate, just check the ITK at the time who was at fault for that its been known for years. Apparently Broomfield isn't a harry man despite always working with him, he also suggested Oscar the season before he signed, Hazard, Sandro, Mata before the european championships and etc.

Actually I don't really care what the supposed ITK at the time said, I know we were very close to signing Suarez and he wanted to come as I was getting info from someone who knew him and was letting me know what was happening at the time.

When the deal didn't happen it was said at the time that Harry decided he wasn't right although he claimed he had been advised by his "scouts" but since then Ruud Gullitt recently said he was asked by us his opinion at the time and he advised us we had to buy him when we sent Sherwood and Ferdinand over to look at him but they told him they weren't convinced

It's all there

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ng-Luis-Suarez-Spurs-reveals-Ruud-Gullit.html

 

[kr1978]

Croatian papers first mentioned Baldini's trip a few days ago (before the weekend). That he was going to begin negotiations with Hajduk and that he would most likely attend today's match. There seems to be some credence in it. At least an initial interest. The Mail is just coat-tailing off that.

Two top talents though. Vlasic is particularly viewed as a top class talent (by those who follow Hajduk's youth teams).

It's more likely with The Mail that they read your post and nicked it from there

 

[beats1]

Actually I don't really care what the supposed ITK at the time said, I know we were very close to signing Suarez and he wanted to come as I was getting info from someone who knew him and was letting me know what was happening at the time.

When the deal didn't happen it was said at the time that Harry decided he wasn't right although he claimed he had been advised by his "scouts" but since then Ruud Gullitt recently said he was asked by us his opinion at the time and he advised us we had to buy him when we sent Sherwood and Ferdinand over to look at him but they told him they weren't convinced

It's all there

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ng-Luis-Suarez-Spurs-reveals-Ruud-Gullit.html

Yes I know what ruud says but we have a poster who personally knows Harry and we have a ITK that got everything right and they say it wasn't Sherwood and Les saying no but harry listening to david moyes who watched suarez with harry to persuade him not to go for him.

Ruud also said alot of things that turned out to be wrong like LVG signing for us