AVB on Modric & Daniel Levy

[Misfit]

What I find interesting, and am reflecting on as I type the above, is that last year he claimed that he only signed his 6 year contract (and said he believed he could fulfill all of his footballing ambitions with us, presumably) because he wanted to ensure we would get a good price for him, in thanks for our faith in him and helping to advance his career - and yet, both then and now, all his energies are directed towards forcing us to accept a low-ball offer - intriguing (would love to see what he does when he is going out of his way to shaft someone ).

Lovely post and God help, ul, if he gets dragged into one of these back and forths with you.

This last paragraph is beautifully put. Why a section of Spurs fans seemingly view the club as the bad guys in this situation can only be ascribed to remnants of the battered-wife syndrome many suffered for the 15 yrs from the early 90's to the mid 00's when we were beaten and bruised by everyone, from all angles. On and off the pitch. To do anything but cave and relent without much of a fight seems so jarring that it's unable to be computed. Default mode kicks in and ways in which this situation can be blamed on THFC are sought out. It's gotta be our bad. Just has to be.

 

[StartingPrice]

Lovely post and God help, ul, if he gets dragged into one of these back and forths with you.

This last paragraph is beautifully put. Why a section of Spurs fans seemingly view the club as the bad guys in this situation can only be ascribed to remnants of the battered-wife syndrome many suffered for the 15 yrs from the early 90's to the mid 00's when we were beaten and bruised by everyone, from all angles. On and off the pitch. To do anything but cave and relent without much of a fight seems so jarring that it's unable to be computed. Default mode kicks in and ways in which this situation can be blamed on THFC are sought out. It's gotta be our bad. Just has to be.

In fairness to UL, he does reiterate that he thinks we have to take a hard stance. But he just seems to believe that Modric being a can be justified on the sole fact that he would like to play for, erm, bigger club

I don't understand it - maybe your battered wife aanalogy is apt.

 

[Misfit]

Fair point. Mentioning UL in the post, I didn't mean the second paragraph to be directed at him. He/She's just playing devil's advocate/looking at it from both perspectives.

It's annoying enough to have to listen to Yanited fans or (the bare-faced cheek) Chelsea fans bemoaning ickly old Tottingham not rolling over and having its tummy rubbed. To hear similar from a minority of Spurs fans is most unbecoming.

 

[Jay The Yid]

The whole thing is boring. Sooner he's gone the sooner we can all get on with our lives.

Yawwnn....

Bet the goons are saying the same thing about RVP. These drawn out transfers are just dull.

 

[StartingPrice]

Fair point. Mentioning UL in the post, I didn't mean the second paragraph to be directed at him. He/She's just playing devil's advocate/looking at it from both perspectives.

It's annoying enough to have to listen to Yanited fans or (the bare-faced cheek) Chelsea fans bemoaning ickly old Tottingham not rolling over and having its tummy rubbed. To hear similar from a minority of Spurs fans is most unbecoming.

Have used a very similar term myself - what the feck do they want from us. Aside from one unprecedneted epoch (of albeit unparalled) success by Liverpool, followed by United, and our coinciding total eclipse, we were always one of the Big Five of English football, and I grew up in an age when we could hold our heads up with anyone. Now they play on this notion that we are getting massively above our station to even aspire to get back to the higher echelons of English football. It makes me fecking rage. They want us to continuing playing possum so they can continue taking the piss and seem genuinely offended when we don't. And what makes me even angrier - they seem to resent it from us, with the proper heritage and doing it all the right way, more than they do with Cheslea and, latterly, Citeh.

And Spurs fans going along with it...don't even get me started

 

[EJWTartanSpur]

Anyone remember what happened when VDV wanted to go to Real from Ajax ? Only he referred to this when he said he spoke to Modric.

van der Vaart went to Madrid from Hamburg. The situation was not acrimonious as far as I remember, as he had been a good player for them for 2-3 seasons, and it had been a surprise that he had joined them in the first place. Hamburg did not block his path, as VDV had been dreaming of a move to a big club when he felt he had reached his prime, and it was understood that that time had arrived. The fee that he went for was surprisingly small as well.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

The Berbatov situation worked out better for us in the long run. Maybe in the short term it's a spanner in the works, but long-term it's was good.

It was also slightly different as the player he knew he was a short-time from being able to buy out his own contract, so the player and the buying club thought that Levy would have to crack eventually.

You cannot back down to these sorts of tactics even once, or you lose control now and forever more. In fact once a player goes public like this you can't even compromise in private because the wider world will see at bowing to pressure. The deal was Modric would be sold if the price was right, and that we would actively look to sell him, in return he had to keep schtum. Now Levy's got no option but to play hard-ball.

I don't know Sloth. I think it's a very precarious situation which has a lose attached either way.

We don't really know what the deal was/is between Levy and Modric. Reports seemed to suggest the parted on very bad terms with Modric very unhappy. May well be that Modric is shit scared Levy is going to try and block or at least price him out of a move to the worlds most famous club and a bumper salary and is thinking I don't give a shit now, I just want my move.

I'm really not sure if the positives outweighed the negatives with Berbatov. Innterms of money, we got maybe 3-5m more but probably lost that when we had to pay off our manager who's job was made very hard by the shitstorm of a striking and then leaving last minute Berbatov having already lost Keane the same window. We effectively had to pay two managers salaries in one season.

In terms of season, wouldn't we have been better off taking the financial hit on Berbatov sooner, replacing him with a decent striker and having a smoother pre-season and start to the season ? We ended up bringing in Redknapp who then wasted all of the Berbatov profit on Keane and Defoe (plus another 10m).

In terms of moral lessons, what did we really achieve. Did it stop Chelsea trying to disrupt Modric last year in exactly the same way ? No. Did it stop Modric behaving badly last season and now this ? No.

Buying clubs, agents and players all know the economic situation. Did Arsenal benefit from making Fabregas stay his last season. They got a half hearted player who was a shadow of the previous two years, and still lost him for 28m (hardly his true worth IMO).

I wish the realities of football were as black and white as us teaching Modric another moral lesson. But I don't think they are.

Modric is like a cancer made of gold. Let it grow and it'll be worth a bit more when you cut out maybe, but it's doing you damage the whole time it's growing as well.

History says he will get his move, and any moral stance we might try to take will be very short lived in the collective memory of football's food chain.

I don't think we should take less than 35m really, but I think if 30m is the best on offer in 2 weeks we should weigh up the ramifications very carefully. Might be better than another Berbatov fiasco.

 

[DJS]

Looking at the latest ITK if AVB thought he'd ever be able to speak to one of our journo's off the record he's still a tad naive about how things roll over here lol.

Bless his cotton socks.

 

[StartingPrice]

I don't know Sloth. I think it's a very precarious situation which has a lose attached either way.

We don't really know what the deal was/is between Levy and Modric. Reports seemed to suggest the parted on very bad terms with Modric very unhappy. 1) May well be that Modric is shit scared Levy is going to try and block or at least price him out of a move to the worlds most famous club and a bumper salary and is thinking I don't give a shit now, I just want my move.

2) I'm really not sure if the positives outweighed the negatives with Berbatov. Innterms of money, we got maybe 3-5m more but probably lost that when we had to pay off our manager who's job was made very hard by the shitstorm of a striking and then leaving last minute Berbatov having already lost Keane the same window. We effectively had to pay two managers salaries in one season.

In terms of season, wouldn't we have been better off taking the financial hit on Berbatov sooner, replacing him with a decent striker and having a smoother pre-season and start to the season ? We ended up bringing in Redknapp who then wasted all of the Berbatov profit on Keane and Defoe (plus another 10m).

In terms of moral lessons, what did we really achieve. Did it stop Chelsea trying to disrupt Modric last year in exactly the same way ? No. Did it stop Modric behaving badly last season and now this ? No.

Buying clubs, agents and players all know the economic situation. Did Arsenal benefit from making Fabregas stay his last season. They got a half hearted player who was a shadow of the previous two years, and still lost him for 28m (hardly his true worth IMO).

I wish the realities of football were as black and white as us teaching Modric another moral lesson. But I don't think they are.

Modric is like a cancer made of gold. Let it grow and it'll be worth a bit more when you cut out maybe, but it's doing you damage the whole time it's growing as well.

History says he will get his move, and any moral stance we might try to take will be very short lived in the collective memory of football's food chain.

I don't think we should take less than 35m really, but I think if 30m is the best on offer in 2 weeks we should weigh up the ramifications very carefully. Might be better than another Berbatov fiasco.

1) Where, on the more human level, I could understand if* Modric felt like this, what I don't understand is the sums that seem to be in the public arena. Every single piece of ITK I've seen (when I was allowed to see ), and every remotely responsible news item I have read (and you, too, presumably, seen as you use the same figure), suggests that we want more than £40 million for him from an English club but will accept £35 million from an overseas club. The same outlets repeatedly use the figure £27 million as what Real have bid, and the maximum they are prepared to go to. Considering this (£35 m) is at least what Chelsea were prepared to pay last Summer, and he has since enhanced his reputation in the Euros, I really don't see how poor little Luka can imagine that we are trying to price him out of a move by asking for £35 m, the more logical conclusion is that Real are trying to low-ball us. Why doeesn't Luka have a little tantrum about them.
As someone elsse said, quite aptly, if Modric's market value is beneath Moutinho's the only conceivible reason (given all the knows) would be that Moutinho is a better player, so why aren't RM trying to sign him - because Modric is the better player. So he is worth more than Moutinho /of.
And what figure could we usse for comparison: our favoured replacement, by all accounts, is Moutinho. Now, we would all agree that Moutinho isn't quite the player Modric is, but a damned fine player, nonetheless, and, as Spurs fans, the hope would be that between stregthening elsewhere in the squad and by switching to a 3 man midfield that would really suit Moutinho, we could cope with selling Modric while overall being a better balanced and improved team. So, Moutinho, not quite as good as Modric, lesser league, also enhanced rep in Euros - and Porto are reportedly after £30 million + for him. Modric should be able to look at that, look at the £35 m we reportedly asking and look at the £27 m Real are reportedly offering and think come on RM, stop facking abat. Is he doing that = NO. What he is doing is passing all of the blame on to us becuase he doesn't want to start off a new life with new employers by calling them low-ball, cheapskate s.
Simple, Moutinho = £30 m, then we are not being even remotely intractable in asking for £35 m - in fact, I would say we are being positively obliging. We could say he is going to the highest bidder and starting bids are at £40 m...and I would bet my bottom dollar there would be takers.
So, no, I really don't think Modric is hard-done by, at all...and if he had half a brain he would be able to see that it is RM lowballing rather than us trying to price him out of a move.

*I should also add that he has agents and advisers for this type of thing - I honestly don't think they, or he, could honestly believe that by asking for £35 million we are doing anything but asking for a fair price.

2) I mostly agree with you, and it is far from an easy situation...like I said, the problem for us ATM is in trying to find a least bad scenario, rather than trying to find a good one. But, as per 1 above, the mostly likely and most suitable replacement we can get for the guy is being quoted to us at £30 million. If we pay more to replace him with someone who isn't quite as good (no disrespect to Moutinho), than we get for him, I would consider that we have been right royally shafted and would feel sicker than the greediest truffle munching porker. I actually believe almost any other scenario is better than that, and cannot see it as a reasonable solution.

We are being forced out of our best player, here, and should at least be coming out of it with a half-decent replacement and between £5 and £10 million cash to strengthen elsewhere - anything less and we might as well just refuse to deal, come what may, IMHO.

 

[Mr-T]

Fuck Modric with an elf.

There are 3 scenarios for Modric:

1. We sell him for a price acceptable to THFC if such a bid comes in.
2. No one bids enough, he carries on being a prick, trains on his own for a couple of years, fucks his career up the arse with a JCB and we sell him cheap (maybe get back the £16m we paid) in 2014 (or buys himself out).
3. No one bids enough, he sorts his shit out, gets his head down and plays for Spurs and possibly gets sold in Jan or whenever.

Unlike Berbs, Keane and Carrick there is no need for the club to roll over as Modrics contract is much longer. He is Spurs player to sell and any suggestion Levy should just sell him cheap because he wants to leave is not only weak, but small, selling club mentality.

Are we trying to challenge for the title or are we mid table pussyholes?

 

[Chapel Hill Hotspur]

Don't fuck with Levy.

 

[StartingPrice]

A little update for everyone (just in case anyone misses it ) - Modric back at training:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1126600?cc=5739

"Tottenham Hotspur have announced Luka Modric reported for training with the club on Monday - but at Spurs Lodge in London and not on the club's tour of the United States.
Modric has been issued with separate fines for missing training on Friday and refusing to board the flight for the club's pre-season visit to North America.
ESPN understands Spurs ordered Modric to report back for training on Monday and were planning to fine him a third time should he fail to attend. The total fine could be in the region of £160,000.
Spurs issused a short statement on their website which read: "The club can confirm Luka Modric has returned to training today (Monday) at Spurs Lodge. The coaching staff will now determine the remainder of his pre-season preparation."
Manager Andre Villas-Boas then moved to explain the situation during a press conference held as part of the tour.
"There are clubs interested in him but we have to hold on to our values and our rights and at the moment the situation for Luka is he is under club discipline," Villas-Boas is quoted as saying by the Guardian. "Unfortunately for him he's going to have to be fined for not being present.
"He's a player who has offered so much for Tottenham so we have a sense of respect for what he's done over the years for us but the chairman feels that the fact that he's not present is not common professional behaviour. The situation can be solved in two ways, the two ways being that the clubs interested meet the demands of Tottenham regarding the player's value or the player continues and returns to the club.
"Hopefully this is a situation that won't drag on for long. The situation is not dependent on Tottenham, it's dependent on the clubs who are interested in the player. This type of player revolt is not new but I think that clubs have to protect themselves. There's plenty of time in the market.
"It's the first time unfortunately for Luka that he takes these actions. I think the chairman and myself have been very open by saying we are willing to listen to offers for the player, which is uncommon, I think. He's had many interests in the past like last year but he has always behaved professionally. We never doubted his human qualities so we don't know what kind of advice he's receiving."

Points of interest:
There seems no doubt, the numpty refused to go on our tour of the US.
He has been fined.
Between the lines - negotiations ongoing, hopefully it will be resolved soon.
AVB casting glances of blame at Modric's advisers.
Just the slightest hint of an olive-branch from AVB, but not of weakness.

 

[beats1]

Luka turns up at spurs lodge and then notices theres no one there so thinks fuck it might as well wait with Ben for some people to turn up

 

[StartingPrice]

Luka turns up at spurs lodge and then notices theres no one there so thinks fuck it might as well wait with Ben for some people to turn up

He was like Ben's mini-me - Ben was up a tall tree, Modric was in a little bush

 

[sloth]

I don't know Sloth. I think it's a very precarious situation which has a lose attached either way.

We don't really know what the deal was/is between Levy and Modric. Reports seemed to suggest the parted on very bad terms with Modric very unhappy. May well be that Modric is shit scared Levy is going to try and block or at least price him out of a move to the worlds most famous club and a bumper salary and is thinking I don't give a shit now, I just want my move.

I'm really not sure if the positives outweighed the negatives with Berbatov. Innterms of money, we got maybe 3-5m more but probably lost that when we had to pay off our manager who's job was made very hard by the shitstorm of a striking and then leaving last minute Berbatov having already lost Keane the same window. We effectively had to pay two managers salaries in one season.

In terms of season, wouldn't we have been better off taking the financial hit on Berbatov sooner, replacing him with a decent striker and having a smoother pre-season and start to the season ? We ended up bringing in Redknapp who then wasted all of the Berbatov profit on Keane and Defoe (plus another 10m).

In terms of moral lessons, what did we really achieve. Did it stop Chelsea trying to disrupt Modric last year in exactly the same way ? No. Did it stop Modric behaving badly last season and now this ? No.

Buying clubs, agents and players all know the economic situation. Did Arsenal benefit from making Fabregas stay his last season. They got a half hearted player who was a shadow of the previous two years, and still lost him for 28m (hardly his true worth IMO).

I wish the realities of football were as black and white as us teaching Modric another moral lesson. But I don't think they are.

Modric is like a cancer made of gold. Let it grow and it'll be worth a bit more when you cut out maybe, but it's doing you damage the whole time it's growing as well.

History says he will get his move, and any moral stance we might try to take will be very short lived in the collective memory of football's food chain.

I don't think we should take less than 35m really, but I think if 30m is the best on offer in 2 weeks we should weigh up the ramifications very carefully. Might be better than another Berbatov fiasco.

The problem when comparing what actually did happen with what might have happened, is the 'might' part can be manipulated anyway we want, to fit whatever opinion we want it to. This applies to me as much as you.

So I say, it was good in the long run, because we got top dollar, we saw off the big-dog, wounding him in the process, and we set a marker down for players and unwanted buyers of the future. If we didn't do that, I claim it might have meant that in the future, players and hostile buyers would have known they only needed to wait to the last couple of years of the contract, come in with a low-ball offer, and despite all our yapping, we'd be sent running with the tail between our legs.

It's a version of the old Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) argument. If country A sets off all his nuclear missiles at country B then it is pointless, surely, to send all of your's back at his, because all you're assuring is the deaths of hundreds of millions more innocents, your own country already about to be destroyed. However, if you don't make that commitment, and don't make it believable, then Game Theory would tell you that once you've got those missiles you should set them off immediately and make the most of your advantage.

Applied to the Berbatov situation, yes it fucked us over, but had Levy not done that we'd have not only be fucked over this time, but every other time too. That's my 'might'.

Your 'might's are:

1. Sold him for £10m less, but got the money and definitely got a new striker.
2. Ramos not got sacked.
3. Had a more, successful season (presumably meaning min Euro qualification?)
4. No fall out from hostile buyers and want-away players in the future.

Your point about Chelsea is well-made: not giving into ransom demands doesn't mean you prevent kidnapping, however, imo, you reduce the incidents of it. Utd thought they could bully Levy and found out otherwise, paying more than they would have if they'd only made a decent offer in the first place (imo). Chelsea tried it, and found out otherwise, and if anything their season ended up derailing, while our benefited from hanging on to Modric. There was sound and fury in the papers and on the message boards, prophecies of doom and whatnot, but it made sod all difference. Will Chelsea take the same approach with us in the future? Or will they be more wary now? However, had we caved, would they have taken the same approach again the next time? If we don't give in to Real will they take a different approach when it comes to the sale of Gareth Bale? But if we do roll over, what will they do when it's Bale's turn to be sold?

The number of clubs who can afford our top players are few, and one by one they're having a go, and one by one they're learning a lesson, which in my opinion will serve us well for as long as Levy remains Chairman.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

The problem when comparing what actually did happen with what might have happened, is the 'might' part can be manipulated anyway we want, to fit whatever opinion we want it to. This applies to me as much as you.

So I say, it was good in the long run, because we got top dollar, we saw off the big-dog, wounding him in the process, and we set a marker down for players and unwanted buyers of the future. If we didn't do that, I claim it might have meant that in the future, players and hostile buyers would have known they only needed to wait to the last couple of years of the contract, come in with a low-ball offer, and despite all our yapping, we'd be sent running with the tail between our legs.

It's a version of the old Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) argument. If country A sets off all his nuclear missiles at country B then it is pointless, surely, to send all of your's back at his, because all you're assuring is the deaths of hundreds of millions more innocents, your own country already about to be destroyed. However, if you don't make that commitment, and don't make it believable, then Game Theory would tell you that once you've got those missiles you should set them off immediately and make the most of your advantage.

Applied to the Berbatov situation, yes it fucked us over, but had Levy not done that we'd have not only be fucked over this time, but every other time too. That's my 'might'.

Your 'might's are:

1. Sold him for £10m less, but got the money and definitely got a new striker.
2. Ramos not got sacked.
3. Had a more, successful season (presumably meaning min Euro qualification?)
4. No fall out from hostile buyers and want-away players in the future.

Your point about Chelsea is well-made: not giving into ransom demands doesn't mean you prevent kidnapping, however, imo, you reduce the incidents of it. Utd thought they could bully Levy and found out otherwise, paying more than they would have if they'd only made a decent offer in the first place (imo). Chelsea tried it, and found out otherwise, and if anything their season ended up derailing, while our benefited from hanging on to Modric. There was sound and fury in the papers and on the message boards, prophecies of doom and whatnot, but it made sod all difference. Will Chelsea take the same approach with us in the future? Or will they be more wary now? However, had we caved, would they have taken the same approach again the next time? If we don't give in to Real will they take a different approach when it comes to the sale of Gareth Bale? But if we do roll over, what will they do when it's Bale's turn to be sold?

The number of clubs who can afford our top players are few, and one by one they're having a go, and one by one they're learning a lesson, which in my opinion will serve us well for as long as Levy remains Chairman.

Some fair points. I just think football is a pretty amoral goldfish bowl. It doesn't just depend on Levy being here, but those other chairman/DOF's/agents being taught lessons being the same ones as well. That leaves quite a few "uneducated" punters out there still to receive the lesson.

I like your version better, just not sure I buy into it as a complete reality.

Modric seems to have apologised and is winging his way to the US as we speak, so hopefully he's getting the hang of it.

 

[Riandor]

Some fair points. I just think football is a pretty amoral goldfish bowl. It doesn't just depend on Levy being here, but those other chairman/DOF's/agents being taught lessons being the same ones as well. That leaves quite a few "uneducated" punters out there still to receive the lesson.

I like your version better, just not sure I buy into it as a complete reality.

Modric seems to have apologised and is winging his way to the US as we speak, so hopefully he's getting the hang of it.

I didn't think he was flying out to the camp but staying back and training at the Lodge?

 

[danielneeds]

I don't think Modric should be allowed to train with the first team whilst the saga is going on. I don't want this contaminating the rest of the squad, like last season. Keep him separate, and then if the transfer doesn't happen reintegrate him in Sep.

 

[sloth]

I don't think Modric should be allowed to train with the first team whilst the saga is going on. I don't want this contaminating the rest of the squad, like last season. Keep him separate, and then if the transfer doesn't happen reintegrate him in Sep.

Did it contaminate the rest of the squad last season?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I didn't think he was flying out to the camp but staying back and training at the Lodge?

I was just going by what the article on the front page (SC) said.