Back Four

[Sauniere]

I don't think people are slating Gallas on this performance alone. He isn't what some of us were expecting, so far at any rate. He made more than a single mistake last night, as did several members of the team all over the pitch.

At one stage or other every one of our central defenders has come in for some serious stick (with the exception of king & Woodgate) and when I come on this forum I see three Dawson camps, those who love him, those who think he is a donkey and those who are indiffferent so I don't know why anyone would speak like the entire forum loves Dawson when they so obviously don't.

The continuity issue is the key as has been pointed out, if a pairing can work well together then neither has to be outstanding. However, if one is missing through injury etc then the other often gets exposed which is what has been happening with us time and time again. Even though Gallas hasn't been at his best (in my opinion) with his experience I would expect him to be talking to his partner and orchestrating the defence. This obviously isn't happening as the defence was a shambles last night therefore calling into question what exactly does Gallas bring to the team?

 

[kaz Hirai]

and gallas isnt really a problem for me, since he was taken in on a free, 1 year contract as cover. Just unlucky that woody didnt make it, then dawson broke every bone in his body playing for the clown team, and losing kaboul and king.

doubt he is washed up at 33, he'll likely play again on saturday and look decent against a much lower quality strike force no disrespect to everton , and improve as the season goes on as he trains more and gets match fitness

 

[EastLondonYid]

I have to say that for me Kaboul has got to be the one we are looking a partner for. I like Dawson and Bassong as centre backs and im sure with time they will continue to improve as I dont believe either has reached their peak.

However, I cant say that I've seen Kaboul ever physically dominated the way Bassong can be sometimes and I dont think I've ever seen him outpaced the way Dawson has been on occasion. Since his new found maturity, the return to form of Hutton, Corluka still to find form this season and the young Walker and Naughton as prospects, Kaboul is the best prospect of the three younger centre backs

totally agree............

I can see kaboul being our main CH given a proper run.

he is quick,strong,decent on the ball, and brave as a lion.

only when harry trust him with a run, will he prove how good he is.

 

[TwoSaintsComeMarching]

Jenas is a fucking liability in the middle of the park. At times he can be the most committed player on the park and at others he looks like he just doesnt give a shit. He tracks back only when he feels like it! The first goal was entirely his fault. He just completely gave up on going with the runner when it was blatntly obvious he was running into the space left by Hutton. Poor poor poor CM play.

 

[DJS]

Corkula--Dawson--King--Assou-Ekotto

for me.

And Bassong / Kaboul to come in for King when needed - Corkula plays an important role in his more defensive play in shoring things up a bit more.

If you have Hutton and Assou-Ekotto bombing up constantly then you leave the two centre backs exposed.

 

[Damian99]

I find it kind of bizarre that Gallas makes one mistake against Samuel Eto in an otherwise good performance away to Inter Milan and he gets slated but Dawson makes them just about every week yet gets adored. Go watch dawson's atrocious 90 minute performance at the mighty Young Boys of Berne and then give yourselves a fucking reality check.

I said a couple of weeks ago that it is time to start seriously thinking about picking two players that are capable of playing week in week out at CB and getting some continuity going and got slaughtered for it by several people. King & Woodgate are great but it is time we grew as a team and stopped depending on players that struggle to play 90 minutes of football, let alone consecutive games.

We need to accept that as loveable as Dawson is, he isn't the future. Even if he wasn't error prone, a bit climsy, not totally comfortable on the ball and not very bright he'd still be basically too slow to ever really be top top drawer.

Bassong is prone to the odd lapse in concentration, but is otherwise pretty decent in that he is comfortable on the ball and quick.

The best of our "back up" bunch for me though is Kaboul. Strong, quick, good in the air and on the deck he represents the best prospect for the future. His ability to play in midfield and at RB marks him out as a the best footballing CB we have seen here since King.

For now I'd pair him with Gallas ever week with Bassong filling in, but in the next couple of windows I'd be looking to add a the best CB we could find to partner Kaboul long term and try and build a CB pairing that would allow us continuity.

How many fucking times do i have to tell you????????

We kept more clean sheets last season with Dawson at the back than any other CB(including King) and conceded less than a goal a game with him in the side, so stop bringing up the same fucking game over and over again and BASSONG was at fault for two of those goals and should we look at that game to see how the WHOLE team is shit then in your opinion? As none of them covered theirselves in much glory :duh: Think man :roll:

You talk alot of shit about Dawson but have yet to prove he is a liability when playing. The stats and goals against column when he plays suggest you are also talking shit. Or do you have any other stats/figures that can back up your constant dribble??

Is it ONE clean sheet this season??
:stupid:

 

[ravo]

Without King and Woody, it's Kaboul and Dawson for me... then Bassong, then Caulker, then me, then Gallas.

 

[michaelden]

How many fucking times do i have to tell you????????

We kept more clean sheets last season with Dawson at the back than any other CB(including King) and conceded less than a goal a game with him in the side, so stop bringing up the same fucking game over and over again and BASSONG was at fault for two of those goals and should we look at that game to see how the WHOLE team is shit then in your opinion? As none of them covered theirselves in much glory :duh: Think man :roll:

You talk alot of shit about Dawson but have yet to prove he is a liability when playing. The stats and goals against column when he plays suggest you are also talking shit. Or do you have any other stats/figures that can back up your constant dribble??

Is it ONE clean sheet this season??
:stupid:

at 26 Dawson is as developed as he'll ever be and he is still slow, poor passer, terrible ball control, slow thinker, lunging tackler and giver away of free kicks. next time he plays watch him, then compare him to a top CB.

and as a thought: -
When has any top team ever enquired about his availability?
How many times has he been picked for the England squad when there hasn't been a raft of injuries?

 

[Damian99]

When has any top team ever enquired about his availability?

Or king when he was fully fit?? Is that how you base a players worth?? :roll:

He must just be one of these lucky defenders than when he players we rarely concede or get beat(last season, obviously he is injured at the mo)

How many clean sheets have we kept while he's been injured even with King playing??

Oh and as a thought other than a fully fit ledley King would anyone else replace and injury free CB pairing of Terrry or Ferdinand. There are a lot of very good players who cannot get into their National side, hardly a basis for suggesting he isn't good enough.

Should we get rid of Gomes :duh:

 

[Bus-Conductor]

How many fucking times do i have to tell you????????

We kept more clean sheets last season with Dawson at the back than any other CB(including King) and conceded less than a goal a game with him in the side, so stop bringing up the same fucking game over and over again and BASSONG was at fault for two of those goals and should we look at that game to see how the WHOLE team is shit then in your opinion? As none of them covered theirselves in much glory :duh: Think man :roll:

You talk alot of shit about Dawson but have yet to prove he is a liability when playing. The stats and goals against column when he plays suggest you are also talking shit. Or do you have any other stats/figures that can back up your constant dribble??

Is it ONE clean sheet this season??
:stupid:

The most obvious one I have is that you think he's brilliant.

 

[Damian99]

The most obvious one I have is that you think he's brilliant.

Make me look as daft as you then and show me some evidence to back up your opinion of Dawson, but do not look back over last seasons fixtures or goals conceded with Dawson in the team.

Would you like me to go over the games Dawson played at CB and the win ratio and Goals against column??

I mean that is a defenders job? to stop the opposition scoring.

Let me save you a little time, Dawson played 29 league games and of that there were 10 Clean sheets now unless you can find anything to show these "COSTLY ERRORS" in the other 19 games, by which we should have conceded quite a few goals, then i don't think i can take you seriously(not that i have ever done anyway) :grin:

 

[Locotoro]

at 26 Dawson is as developed as he'll ever be and he is still slow, poor passer, terrible ball control, slow thinker, lunging tackler and giver away of free kicks. next time he plays watch him, then compare him to a top CB.

and as a thought: -
When has any top team ever enquired about his availability?
How many times has he been picked for the England squad when there hasn't been a raft of injuries?

I appreciate that at 27 he's likely to have developed as far as possibly physically. However, most defensive players dont hit their peak until the age of 30, funnily enough when they start to slow down and became less physical players.

I can see why you have the opinions of him that you do but I think your criticisms of him are a little harsh:

still slow - compared to who? i would say that he is of average speed
poor passer - overly ambitious passer is closer to a more appropriate criticism
terrible ball control - I wouldnt say so
slow thinker - Hes more of an aggressive defender than a covering defender and I think you need a balance.
lunging tackler - again this is his reactive nature and he seems to be very good at it.
giver away of free kicks - i dont think thats really that fair to say.

Dawson would be a mainstay in any one of the 16 teams that finished below us. He is quite easily better than Chelsea, Arsenal and Man U's back up options.

 

[michaelden]

Or king when he was fully fit?? Is that how you base a players worth?? :roll:

No but it is a good marker as to how others in the industry, who know more than you & I, value the player.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I appreciate that at 27 he's likely to have developed as far as possibly physically. However, most defensive players dont hit their peak until the age of 30, funnily enough when they start to slow down and became less physical players.

I can see why you have the opinions of him that you do but I think your criticisms of him are a little harsh:

still slow - compared to who? i would say that he is of average speed
poor passer - overly ambitious passer is closer to a more appropriate criticism
terrible ball control - I wouldnt say so
slow thinker - Hes more of an aggressive defender than a covering defender and I think you need a balance.
lunging tackler - again this is his reactive nature and he seems to be very good at it.
giver away of free kicks - i dont think thats really that fair to say.

Dawson would be a mainstay in any one of the 16 teams that finished below us. He is quite easily better than Chelsea, Arsenal and Man U's back up options.

I still feel that Dawson is

You honestly think he's better than people like Wes Brown, Johny Evans, Alex etc ?

I don't think he would be a mainstay in the all of the 16 teams below us either. Teams like liverpool, ManC, Villa, Birmingham, Sunderland, Stoke, Bolton all have varying degrees of decent CB pairings that don't have the luxury of playing in teams as good as ours.

 

[Damian99]

You honestly think he's better than people like Wes Brown, Johny Evans, Alex etc ?

I don't think he would be a mainstay in the all of the 16 teams below us either. Teams like liverpool, ManC, Villa, Birmingham, Sunderland, Stoke, Bolton all have varying degrees of decent CB pairings that don't have the luxury of playing in teams as good as ours.

fucking hell Brown and Evans? You're taking the piss now :rofl:

So come on then, where these stats that back up everything you say about him.

You cannot play 29 times in the premier league keep ten clean sheets and concede less than a goal a game, if you are as bad as you claim no matter what team you play in. We probably conceded MORE in the few games Dawson didn't play than we did in the 29 that he did.


Infact find me a CB in any other team that can match that and lets see how he holds up against them.

 

[Damian99]

No but it is a good marker as to how others in the industry, who know more than you & I, value the player.

King??????????? :shrug:

 

[michaelden]

I appreciate that at 27 he's likely to have developed as far as possibly physically. However, most defensive players dont hit their peak until the age of 30, funnily enough when they start to slow down and became less physical players.

I can see why you have the opinions of him that you do but I think your criticisms of him are a little harsh:

still slow - compared to who? i would say that he is of average speed
poor passer - overly ambitious passer is closer to a more appropriate criticism
terrible ball control - I wouldnt say so
slow thinker - Hes more of an aggressive defender than a covering defender and I think you need a balance.
lunging tackler - again this is his reactive nature and he seems to be very good at it.
giver away of free kicks - i dont think thats really that fair to say.

Dawson would be a mainstay in any one of the 16 teams that finished below us. He is quite easily better than Chelsea, Arsenal and Man U's back up options.

I still feel that Dawson is

I agree he is better than he has been in ages and I agree that he should be our back up option not our 1st choice CB

 

[michaelden]

King??????????? :shrug:

played out of position (CDM) for long periods of his early career. Had bad spells under Hoddle at CB (9 goals conceeded in 2 games etc...) before being patnered with Naybet at CB. This was the 1st real season King came into his own. At that time most of the top teams seemed sorted at CB and King had only just shaken his inconsistant tag. Next seasons he became a legend with Spurs but his hip then knees were causing issues.

 

[Damian99]

played out of position (CDM) for long periods of his early career. Had bad spells under Hoddle at CB (9 goals conceeded in 2 games etc...) before being patnered with Naybet at CB. This was the 1st real season King came into his own. At that time most of the top teams seemed sorted at CB and King had only just shaken his inconsistant tag. Next seasons he became a legend with Spurs but his hip then knees were causing issues.

But by your logic no "big club" ever made a bid for him, so he's not that good?

Or does that logic only apply to certain players??

 

[Damian99]

I agree he is better than he has been in ages and I agree that he should be our back up option not our 1st choice CB

Where as anyone said he his 1st choice CB? But you don't just play one CB do you, but he is(taking out woodgate) 1st choice pairing with King or A.N Other, or did you not watch much Tottenham last season? And infact this untill his injury.