Bale v Ronaldo first 99 Premier League games

[WhiteHart4Ever]

Ay caramba - it's back. Don't want to be dragged into it but can't resist: still baffled that someone would reduce the quite interesting debate on what would be Bale's best position to a "debate" regarding rather irrelevant facts on his description on the official site and number on his back. FFS, what matters is where he contributes the most to the team, not where the club once thought he would (and most likely they were proven wrong). (But for the record, I acknowledge that it is a fact that he was listed as LB on the website and that he's got squad number 3).

Now, stats show how well he's done, also gives an indication of his abilities (that we all know of). But what Ronaldo did from these first games and onwards in terms of building up mental and physical strengths and getting new skills - particularly his heading of the ball - was nothing short of sensational stuff and Gareth would have to do amazingly well to get even near that. He can, though, with the right attitude, luck with injuries etc.

It also partly shows - I believe - that if Bale did a few more stepovers and rather inefficient tricks and was called Balinho he would have been considered even better than he is today. Generally I find we're quick to lift British players into a "very good" kind of category - players like Henderson and Adam - on limited merit, but reluctant to put them up with the best of the foreign stars. Bale is among the absolute most talented young players in the world today and he's increasingly got the stats to show it as well.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

The stats are interesting. I'm sure it was around this point in his career that Ferguson challenged Ronaldo to score 15 goals in a season. It was some crappy bet like £500 which Ronaldo won scoring 17. The next year he was already on that number by January and Ferguson said he'd pay him even more if he could reach 30 by the end of the season. Since then he's never stopped scoring.

He started to get himself into more goalscoring positions and his numbers went through the roof. Bale has found himself in more goalscoring positions this season and done well and has 10 this year but with 14 league games plus hopefully an FA cup run still a target of 20 for him might be a good incentive.

 

[stevenurse]

Doesn't asamoah gyan wear number 3? Hell of a left back. Who gives two steaming shits what number he wears?

 

[faymantaray]

Bale needs to drastically improve his right foot and confidence in using it if he wants to get anywhere near Ronaldo..

 

[tobi]

His dribbling too.

 

[StartingPrice]

Ay caramba - it's back. Don't want to be dragged into it but can't resist: still baffled that someone would reduce the quite interesting debate on what would be Bale's best position to a "debate" regarding rather irrelevant facts on his description on the official site and number on his back. FFS, what matters is where he contributes the most to the team, not where the club once thought he would (and most likely they were proven wrong). (But for the record, I acknowledge that it is a fact that he was listed as LB on the website and that he's got squad number 3).

Now, stats show how well he's done, also gives an indication of his abilities (that we all know of). But what Ronaldo did from these first games and onwards in terms of building up mental and physical strengths and getting new skills - particularly his heading of the ball - was nothing short of sensational stuff and Gareth would have to do amazingly well to get even near that. He can, though, with the right attitude, luck with injuries etc.

It also partly shows - I believe - that if Bale did a few more stepovers and rather inefficient tricks and was called Balinho he would have been considered even better than he is today. Generally I find we're quick to lift British players into a "very good" kind of category - players like Henderson and Adam - on limited merit, but reluctant to put them up with the best of the foreign stars. Bale is among the absolute most talented young players in the world today and he's increasingly got the stats to show it as well.

:roll:
It's simple and has been descibed several dozen times:
If he was described as a full-back and played as a full-back it was never wrong to say he was a full-back - that is a FACT. I got into the debate in the first place because a poster said this and another, who aspired to see Bale play as a winger (a perfectly acceptable aspiration), called him stupid. How can it be stupid to state a fact.

That is my objection. From the beginning, those who aspired to see Bale play as a winger have been massively abusive and insulting of anyone who dared to disagree with them, or even explain the difference between fact and aspiration.

I have stated several times this differnce: FACT and ASPIRATION. And yet, still, posters like yourself are struggling to think this is stiffling the debate about aspiration. It is not, it is saying, simply, that while he was classified officailly as a full-back, it wasn't stupid to say he was a full-back.

I also despire (DESPISE :bang the bloody stupid simplifiaction that tries to justify an opinion by blindly claiming he never had a good game at full-back (he did) or has never had a poor game on the wing (he bloody well has :roll.

In regard to anything else, I have said, several times, that the aspiration to see him play on the wing is a wholly legitimate one. I also said, several times, at the height of the very heated arguement that he would make a great winger (but this was totally ignored), and that he is a great athlete and player and so will be exceptional whether he plays at full-back or on the wing.

But if you actually look bang rather than having a go, you will see that it wasn't me who started this up again, and I haven't anywhere in this thread said he shouldn't be playing on the wing, or isn't a great player on the wing. I simply objected to a totally innaccurate and myopic claim that any time he spent at full-back had been utterly wasted.

And, finally, the debate about categorisation is solely caused by the insistence of certain posters who aspired to see Bale playing on the wing calling posters who said he was a full-back stupid when he was actually categortised and played as a full-back by the club. Nothing else. It wouldn't have even arisen, if the frothing at the mouth brigade hadn't resorted to insults and abuse of anyone who stated a fact because they can't stand the idea of anyone disagreeing with them. And it wasn't used as an attempt to justify the aspiration of his continued use as a full-back. It's bloody simple.

 

[Leachie]

:roll:
It's simple and has been descibed several dozen times:
If he was described as a full-back and played as a full-back it was never wrong to say he was a full-back - that is a FACT. I got into the debate in the first place because a poster said this and another, who aspired to see Bale play as a winger (a perfectly acceptable aspiration), called him stupid. How can it be stupid to state a fact.

That is my objection. From the beginning, those who aspired to see Bale play as a winger have been massively abusive and insulting of anyone who dared to disagree with them, or even explain the difference between fact and aspiration.

I have stated several times this differnce: FACT and ASPIRATION. And yet, still, posters like yourself are struggling to think this is stiffling the debate about aspiration. It is not, it is saying, simply, that while he was classified officailly as a full-back, it wasn't stupid to say he was a full-back.

I also despire (DESPISE :bang the bloody stupid simplifiaction that tries to justify an opinion by blindly claiming he never had a good game at full-back (he did) or has never had a poor game on the wing (he bloody well has :roll.

In regard to anything else, I have said, several times, that the aspiration to see him play on the wing is a wholly legitimate one. I also said, several times, at the height of the very heated arguement that he would make a great winger (but this was totally ignored), and that he is a great athlete and player and so will be exceptional whether he plays at full-back or on the wing.

But if you actually look bang rather than having a go, you will see that it wasn't me who started this up again, and I haven't anywhere in this thread said he shouldn't be playing on the wing, or isn't a great player on the wing. I simply objected to a totally innaccurate and myopic claim that any time he spent at full-back had been utterly wasted.

And, finally, the debate about categorisation is solely caused by the insistence of certain posters who aspired to see Bale playing on the wing calling posters who said he was a full-back stupid when he was actually categortised and played as a full-back by the club. Nothing else. It wouldn't have even arisen, if the frothing at the mouth brigade hadn't resorted to insults and abuse of anyone who stated a fact because they can't stand the idea of anyone disagreeing with them. And it wasn't used as an attempt to justify the aspiration of his continued use as a full-back. It's bloody simple.

Trust me. He is not a left-back.

 

[StartingPrice]

Trust me. He is not a left-back.

Can I trust you as far as I can throw you...in which case, meet me at the closest large edifice :wink:

 

[Bromavinci]

Trust me. He is not a left-back.

 

[diegooners]

He'll never be as good as Ronaldo, but he remains as fantastic player. Ronaldo would be the best player on the planet in pretty much any other era in football history. We are blessed to have both him and Messi playing at the same time.

Bale just doesn't have as much magic. He has a sensational left foot, a great first touch, immense power and pace and good work ethic. These make him one hell of a player. But his feet don't dance like Ronaldo's. Cristiano did unbelievably things with a football from the moment he turned up at United, it's just his end product wasn't there. Bale is different, his end product has been consistently good from the moment he got into the team in terms of creating chances, I just can't see him getting to that level.

I'd love to be wrong though!

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

He'll never be as good as Ronaldo, but he remains as fantastic player. Ronaldo would be the best player on the planet in pretty much any other era in football history. We are blessed to have both him and Messi playing at the same time.

Bale just doesn't have as much magic. He has a sensational left foot, a great first touch, immense power and pace and good work ethic. These make him one hell of a player. But his feet don't dance like Ronaldo's. Cristiano did unbelievably things with a football from the moment he turned up at United, it's just his end product wasn't there. Bale is different, his end product has been consistently good from the moment he got into the team in terms of creating chances, I just can't see him getting to that level.

I'd love to be wrong though!

:bs:

 

[diegooners]

:bs:

I don't think that's fair. He has definitely improved markedly from last year, and this shows good work ethic in wanting to better himself. Disagree?

 

[gibbospurs]

I don't think that's fair. He has definitely improved markedly from last year, and this shows good work ethic in wanting to better himself. Disagree?

Beginning of last season he worked way harder than now, he was always helping out at the back and breaking with speed from deep. He simply doesnt do that anymore really, hangs aroung the half way line. Maybe thats what harry has told him to do?:shrug:

 

[hodsgod]

Trust me. He is not a left-back.

Does that mean, "I don't believe left back is his best position"?

Because he is a left back if the manager says so!

 

[ultimateloner]

I think theres a chance he might get over 20 goals a season if we continue to use him the way we do (which is good). Rotate him around, let him try different things. Against Liverpool we left him and Adebayor up front and he was potent in counter attack, missing 1-on-1. It's how RM plays now, relying entirely on Higuian and Ronaldo. Cant see why we can't try that.

 

[tobi]

You left out Benzema, Ozil, Alonso and Casillas.

 

[WhiteHart4Ever]

:roll:
It's simple and has been descibed several dozen times:
If he was described as a full-back and played as a full-back it was never wrong to say he was a full-back - that is a FACT. I got into the debate in the first place because a poster said this and another, who aspired to see Bale play as a winger (a perfectly acceptable aspiration), called him stupid. How can it be stupid to state a fact.

That is my objection. From the beginning, those who aspired to see Bale play as a winger have been massively abusive and insulting of anyone who dared to disagree with them, or even explain the difference between fact and aspiration.

I have stated several times this differnce: FACT and ASPIRATION. And yet, still, posters like yourself are struggling to think this is stiffling the debate about aspiration. It is not, it is saying, simply, that while he was classified officailly as a full-back, it wasn't stupid to say he was a full-back.

I also despire (DESPISE :bang the bloody stupid simplifiaction that tries to justify an opinion by blindly claiming he never had a good game at full-back (he did) or has never had a poor game on the wing (he bloody well has :roll.

In regard to anything else, I have said, several times, that the aspiration to see him play on the wing is a wholly legitimate one. I also said, several times, at the height of the very heated arguement that he would make a great winger (but this was totally ignored), and that he is a great athlete and player and so will be exceptional whether he plays at full-back or on the wing.

But if you actually look bang rather than having a go, you will see that it wasn't me who started this up again, and I haven't anywhere in this thread said he shouldn't be playing on the wing, or isn't a great player on the wing. I simply objected to a totally innaccurate and myopic claim that any time he spent at full-back had been utterly wasted.

And, finally, the debate about categorisation is solely caused by the insistence of certain posters who aspired to see Bale playing on the wing calling posters who said he was a full-back stupid when he was actually categortised and played as a full-back by the club. Nothing else. It wouldn't have even arisen, if the frothing at the mouth brigade hadn't resorted to insults and abuse of anyone who stated a fact because they can't stand the idea of anyone disagreeing with them. And it wasn't used as an attempt to justify the aspiration of his continued use as a full-back. It's bloody simple.

Eek Listen, SP, no need to have that kind of a go. I agree your argument is simple, I just find it completely uninteresting; it might have been valid if people were abusing you for calling him a fullback - but you should really have dropped it by now.

Now, in danger of running into the same debate I think it's still not 100 % certain which is his best position. Currently he's playing (on the pitch, that is) all over the front, really, though the last few games arguably partly because a few others - Ade, VDV, Lennon - have been missing. If anything I think he should stick more to the left side than he's done lately, especially when Lennon's out as we've been struggling to get good crosses into the box. His days as a LB - nominally, on the pitch or whatever - seems gone (haven't checked the OS, mind) though I'd still like us to sometimes line up with two proper attacking full backs in Bale and Walker and a proper holding midfielder/makeshift defender in Livermore or Sandro to efficiently make it sort of a 3-5-2, but I guess that's my FM experience talking (CM 97-98, rather - by far the best formation back then).

 

[StartingPrice]

Eek Listen, SP, no need to have that kind of a go. I agree your argument is simple, I just find it completely uninteresting; it might have been valid if people were abusing you for calling him a fullback - but you should really have dropped it by now.

Now, in danger of running into the same debate I think it's still not 100 % certain which is his best position. Currently he's playing (on the pitch, that is) all over the front, really, though the last few games arguably partly because a few others - Ade, VDV, Lennon - have been missing. If anything I think he should stick more to the left side than he's done lately, especially when Lennon's out as we've been struggling to get good crosses into the box. His days as a LB - nominally, on the pitch or whatever - seems gone (haven't checked the OS, mind) though I'd still like us to sometimes line up with two proper attacking full backs in Bale and Walker and a proper holding midfielder/makeshift defender in Livermore or Sandro to efficiently make it sort of a 3-5-2, but I guess that's my FM experience talking (CM 97-98, rather - by far the best formation back then).

There was a lot of abuse.
In this thread, a poster said any time he spent as full-back was utterly wasted - I find that not only totally innaccurate, but also incredibly myopic and twisting the truth to fit an agenda. I said so.
We then had a he jsut isn't a full-back post. Yeah, I probably over-reacted, but the fact is that is just one more poster who hasn't understood the difference between fact and aspiration. As it was this failure to disciminate between the two that led to the abuse of posters stating a basic fact, in the first place, I think I was totally justified in explaining yet again what the difference is, before any abuse began again.
I'm not interested if one (you) or even lots of posters find it uninteresting - my only concern is that there was a lot of abuse around this issue from folk who either can't discriminate between fact and aspiration, or folk who just can't stand anyone having an alternative viewpoint.

 

[nailsy]

Can we all just a agree that Bale is a great leftie? :shrug:

 

[StartingPrice]

Can we all just a agree that Bale is a great leftie? :shrug:

I already have.
This is about something totally unrelated to making that statement.