Bitterness for Sherwood

[dudu]

Ok after we have fucking Tim Sherwood continuously slating Soldado and even comparing effort in training in order to big up Harry Kane on TV (the whole 'out trained' line etc).

Trix on Coys has said that Soldado is 'one of, if not the hardest trainer at the Club'

Just goes to show again that Sherwood either completely alienated players or lies all day long.

(As an aside, infer no criticism of Kane from this post, really rate the kid and always have done.)

Or Trix doesnt know everything - that 3rd option is always there!!

 

[Spurs_Bear]

The fact that Lennon isn't getting a game in the EPL (and hasn't even made the bench a couple of times) would suggest that he has been told he can look elsewhere wouldn't you think ?

But then why would he be made captain? If he's told he can look elsewhere why play him at all? He came on for Lamela against Newcastle, hasn't he been injured?

 

[eddiebailey]

Tim didn't give Mason any game time ? Pochettino is the first manager we've had to give him any serious consideration as a EPL player.

Bulletspur mentioned Mason. To be fair though Mason was on loan and injured during Tim's tenure, so he can hardly be blamed for not playing him. I would also like to think that Tim had something to do with us awarding him a new three year contract, though doubtless you well tell me there is no evidence for that.

 

[Kendall]

Or Trix doesnt know everything - that 3rd option is always there!!

Whilst I don't doubt that Sherwood may have a little agenda, his decisions to play Adebayor and Kane were vindicated at the time, there any no questions about it, so there would be little requirement to engage in anti-Soldado hyperbole to justify his actions. I think he just got fed up with Soldado and everybody (including Soldado) feeling sorry for the bloke.

I'd choose to believe Tim as a genuine insider than 'Trix'.

 

[eddiebailey]

Not at all. The thing is, the negative stuff, the reason's why many disliked him is all pretty public stuff. It's the things he did as a coach - i.e. the reality of his tactics and decisions not matching his pre match rhetoric, like saying I want to compete in midfield and playing Chadli and Sigurdsson in there, his tactics being incredibly basic and having no really systematic theme. Then there was all the chippy stuff - him v the world - and the xenophobic crap, and the making public of his every thought about players, Baldini, Levy. The clear attempt to make AVB and Baldini look like ****s. As you acknowledge yourself, his general persona just grated with many.

I do not necessarily agree on tactics; he was refreshingly pragmatic at the outset of his reign in realising he had to adapt tactics to get the best out of the players who could make a difference; I think where he screwed up towards the end was attempting to play his preferred shape without the players to do it. Frankly we just had no CM at that stage who could thread a forward pass, hence drafting in Chadli and Siggy.

As for the personal stuff, that is mostly interpretation through the prism of preconceptions.

 

[whitesocks]

Hi-def close-ups do Sherwood no favours that's for sure - he's an ugly bastard.
But his results and football were decent.

Unless we were going to bring an experienced manager to take us to the next level - a van gaal or prandelli - or one of the other trojan names that were cynically being dangled in front of us last season, then we should have stuck with him.
Sherwood is right to feel quite bitter given who we eventually replaced him with, and how well that has gone.

There is something fundamentally wrong with how managers are dismissed at the club (even AVB, who got so bored of waiting for the justified axe, supposedly resigned) and there is certainly something very wrong in how we select these managers in the first place - the better ones were more like accidents.

I'm sure MP will eventually get the hang of managing a squad of our ability, and he'll no doubt be given the boot at that very point.

 

[mpickard2087]

His outbursts didn't really bother me, particularly when aimed at the board and transfer dealings. I actually liked that he acted more as an outsider and wasn't kissing up to Levy and Co. Everyone involved should be embarrassed how we have spent £17m and £15m on a couple of centre mids who really don't bring that much to the party in the grand scheme of things, another hefty wad on a centre back who has ADHD and looks unsuited to the league and arguably worse than the player he replaced, a £20m+ on a striker who, with the best will in the world, for that price should be acting as a talisman and leading from the front... Not needing to play with two or three certain players to get the best out of him and relying on others, and lets not even mention a revolving door of attacking midfielders who get signed, flop because they don't fit the system really, then get sold for the next one.

I'm embarrassed by it all, and I'm just a fan so the people responsible... I didn't mind someone calling them out, it needed to be done.

 

[Spurger King]

Hi-def close-ups do Sherwood no favours that's for sure - he's an ugly bastard.
But his results and football were decent.

 

[benski]

lordy. tim sherwood eh? glad it's none of us doing the hiring and firing!

 

[Norwegian Spurs fan]

Sherwood is history at Spurs thank God!

 

[allatsea]

Why hasn't he been able to find another job in management ? Why has he talked himself out of three jobs to my certain knowledge since he left Spurs ? just bad luck ? Or something to do with the man himself ?

 

[parklane1]

A


Ade gets shit because, for the vast majority of the time he is, well, shit!!!!

There are a lot of Spurs fan who have never taken to either him or Gallas because of the Arse connection, you may not be one of the but they are many who can not see pass the end of their noses and who have never given them a chance.

 

[jolsnogross]

I do not necessarily agree on tactics; he was refreshingly pragmatic at the outset of his reign in realising he had to adapt tactics to get the best out of the players who could make a difference; I think where he screwed up towards the end was attempting to play his preferred shape without the players to do it. Frankly we just had no CM at that stage who could thread a forward pass, hence drafting in Chadli and Siggy.

As for the personal stuff, that is mostly interpretation through the prism of preconceptions.

Sherwood was written off before he even started, So it's a bit rich to hear calls for continuity and stability when the Sherwood example highlights the hypocrisy among many. I thought he was right to try to avoid the characterization of 'caretaker' via his initial contract, even though that's how it panned out.

I don't have to like any of our managers to support them - it should be based entirely on the team's performance, results, and development and the old Spurs adage of entertaining attacking footy - but Spurs fans are really into this and we'll never shake it off I reckon. The fact is, Sherwood had us re-engage with attacking footy and it succeeded many times because he wasn't so risk-averse to not play two strikers from time to time. This was far more pragmatic and tactically flexible than the 'philosophers' on either side of his tenure. Some described it as 'Benny Hill football', but it was far more entertaining and resulted in a winning record compared to some of the paint-drying stuff we've been enduring either side of his brief reign. We still got smashed by the better teams, but we did also win a lot and upped our scoring rate significantly. I'd have given him more time.

It'll be interesting to see how Sherwood gets on if he lands a manager's job somewhere, but he's largely irrelevant to us now. I hope Poch can get us on a run rather than the start-stop (at best) form we're currently on. I don't think he's been bold enough and I don't think he addresses our attacking enough. But he has shown a willingness to change the formation during a game...I suppose I'd like to see that also happen from the off in league games.

But even success at Spurs is no guarantee of managerial stability, as the Redknapp and Jol (and to a lesser extent Sherwood) examples have shown.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

This goes the other way with people calling him a "snake" or "back-stabber" with no proof of this, only their own opinions of the man. Very unfair in my opinion to brand him as something without proof.

Agreed

I'll say it again, that he took a job that basically nobody else seemed to be interested in at the time he was appointed.

What the spurs job ? You think no-one would have been interested in the Spurs job ?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Someone last year must have been fighting Mason's case in order to get him a 3 year contract when all seemed lost for him, to be fair.

Agreed, but who ? We don't know ? For all we know the contract was about making sure a now over age player retained some transfer value ? What we do know is Sherwood didn't give him any game time.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

No...

Suggests he isn't rated then.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

But then why would he be made captain? If he's told he can look elsewhere why play him at all? He came on for Lamela against Newcastle, hasn't he been injured?

I honestly do not know, but he doesn't seem to be first choice any more does he ?

 

[TaoistMonkey]

I knew I shouldn't have open this thread.

What a load of nonsense.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I do not necessarily agree on tactics; he was refreshingly pragmatic at the outset of his reign in realising he had to adapt tactics to get the best out of the players who could make a difference; I think where he screwed up towards the end was attempting to play his preferred shape without the players to do it. Frankly we just had no CM at that stage who could thread a forward pass, hence drafting in Chadli and Siggy.

As for the personal stuff, that is mostly interpretation through the prism of preconceptions.

By the personal stuff you mean the stuff that he said, the way he carried himself etc ? That's not interpretation through the prism of preconceptions at all. In the absence of any better alternative, I wanted him given the job. None of us had really listened to much he had to say or heard many of his opinions prior to his appointment as our manager.

It's called listening to the self serving, xenophobic, narrow minded bollocks he spouted and not liking it much.

What you call refreshingly pragmatic, I called un-refreshingly naive. I really don't see what's pragmatic about getting into an end to end slugfest with teams (both games against Soutahmpton e.g.). We still got dominated and slabbed by good teams.

I know we see his tactics differently. I didn't even think playing Kane and Adebayor together worked tactically very well. The one thing we probably agree on is his introduction of Bentaleb. But even there I don't understand why he was ditched.

 

[eddiebailey]

By the personal stuff you mean the stuff that he said, the way he carried himself etc ? That's not interpretation through the prism of preconceptions at all. In the absence of any better alternative, I wanted him given the job. None of us had really listened to much he had to say or heard many of his opinions prior to his appointment as our manager.

It's called listening to the self serving, xenophobic, narrow minded bollocks he spouted and not liking it much.

That was your perception, not mine. I will grant you self-serving, but there is a lot of that in the world.

What you call refreshingly pragmatic, I called un-refreshingly naive. I really don't see what's pragmatic about getting into an end to end slugfest with teams (both games against Soutahmpton e.g.). We still got dominated and slabbed by good teams.

He got points, so perhaps his evaluation of the risks involved in his tactics was more accurate than yours? People are very bad at evaluating risk, particularly when there is emotional involvement.

No arguing that we got owned by good teams, but given the length of his tenure it seems a bit unfair to use a problem he inherited as a stick to beat him with.

I know we see his tactics differently. I didn't even think playing Kane and Adebayor together worked tactically very well. The one thing we probably agree on is his introduction of Bentaleb. But even there I don't understand why he was ditched.

Sometimes you just have to trust that the manager has a more informed view of the player. Sherwood made plenty of mistakes in his selections, but I am prepared to give him that one.