Blending experience with our youth

[mendesstormer]

We've got the makings of a great team here. We really need to build on the core of Dier, Rose, Mason, Bentaleb and Kane. Lloris is world-class and Eriksen (if he can perform for a full season) and Verts (if his mind's on the game for a full season) are top drawer. That's a minimum of 8 quality players to build around. What we're conspicuously lacking is experience, and specifically experience of achieving things at a higher level than we currently operate at. None of our players (with the arguable exception of Lloris) has that.

If we could somehow get, for example, Lavezzi (probably pie in the sky, but lots of media talk) and Cambiasso (much more likely if he fancies a move), we could solve this issue at a stroke. Cambiasso is undoubtedly made of the right stuff, having just dragged Leicester over the line; and Lavezzi from what I recall is a hard worker on the field. They could be inspirational figures for our younger players to learn from. The fact they both happen to be Argentinean probably doesn't hurt either.

Likely/hopeful sales: Ade, Capoue, Kaboul, Lennon, Chiriches, Paulinho, Holtby

We could go into the new season something like this (with minimum outlay):

4-3-3
Lloris
Walker Dier Verts Rose
Dembele Bents Mason(Cambiasso)
Lavezzi(Lamela) Kane Eriksen

4-2-3-1
Lloris
Walker Dier Verts Rose
Bents Mason
Lavezzi(Lamela) Demb Eriksen(Chadli)
Kane

4-4-2
Lloris
Walker Dier Verts Rose
Townsend Bents Demb Eriksen
Lavezzi Kane

2nd string (all start in the Europa):
Vorm
Yedlin Fazio CB Davies
Stamb Cambiasso (+Carroll in a 4-3-3)
Townsend Pritchard Chadli (- Townsend or Chadli in a 4-3-3)
Soldado

And I'd like to see Poch willing to try all three formations. 4-3-3 against the 'big 4'. Maybe 4-4-2 in easier home games.
Sorted.
(If you think Lavezzi is wildly unrealistic, I'd be happy to hear of more realistic alternatives.)

 

[Neon_Knight_]

I agree with the principle, but not necessarily the specific signings. I can't see Lavezzi happening and Cambiasso (34) is probably a bit too old.

Although our 'philosophy' is to sign young players, with potential and a resale value, I would like to see us bring in two experienced players who have performed at the highest level. We can't realistically sign a world-class player aged 25-28, but a 30-32 year old who's not starting at a top team as much as he used to, could be brought in for a couple of seasons. This would immediately improve our starting line-up and help to develop our younger players. We did it with Edgar Davids a decade ago, to great effect. I think two is the most we could realistically incorporate into the squad, whilst still giving regular playing time to our young, up-and-coming players.

An experienced CB and CM would be my choice, along with a younger winger/second striker. The problem will be convincing players to compete at a high level for a moderate wage, rather than at a low level for a much higher wage in Qatar/Russia.

I don't place quite so much importance on experience for attacking players. There's always a lot of pressure on players to perform, but defensive positions arguably require greater consistency, concentration and mental strength:
If a striker / winger misses two chances for every goal they score, that would generally be considered a very good ratio. If a CB defends two attacks well, but then messes up and we concede a goal, they will be held accountable and come under heavy criticism in the media.
If a striker has a quiet game, the team can still grab one or two goals from midfield, and it can be blamed on "poor supply". When a team's play-maker disappears for a game, the whole team falls flat.
Also, any striker/winger with the experience that we're talking about, which we can realistically sign, is likely to have lost a yard of pace. A CB or holding midfielder can get away with this more, with good positioning and reading of the game, because they sit behind the play.

I appreciate that it can be tough for a young striker to cope with the expectancy of scoring every week or staying positive during a drought, but if we bring in another striker (regardless of age), this will take some weight off Kane's shoulders .

If we did sign Schneiderlin (25), perhaps we could then look at an older attacking player.

 

[mendesstormer]

I don't know, I've been impressed with Cambiasso this season. I think he could be as good for us as Davids was, and he doesn't need to be playing week in week out, by any means. Agree that an experienced CB would be great, but not sure the right sort of candidate is available - Garay has been mentioned, I think, but would he come to us? Nearest I could get was Ferdinand, and he's hardly demonstrated his leadership qualities at QPR.

 

[Frozen_Waffles]

I agree, getting someone in at CM or CB with some experience would be exactly what we need, I am not against Cambiasso, we could also look at Vlaar.

Maybe Barry as well. I would love Lavezzi but I would be suprised. I remember us being linked with Pirlo... not an option now sadly.

 

[Dharmabum]

It is funny how fans go on about Poch not being bold enough to play academy players like Onomah and Winks.....yet Spurs managed 5th place after having the following young players introduced as regulars this season: Dier, Rose, Bentaleb, Mason, Kane. That's 5 players in one season; i.e. half of the out-field team!
How many more players do some of you want Poch to introduce in 1 season? And if results won't go Spurs' way... the fans will be calling for him to get the sack. And should a youngster play badly if often will affect his development as his confidence may suffer (yes, footballers all have stage fright).
I am not saying I am totally convinced by Poch's high-pressue high line defensive line but that's another debate.

 

[Spursidol]

It is funny how fans go on about Poch not being bold enough to play academy players like Onomah and Winks.....yet Spurs managed 5th place after having the following young players introduced as regulars this season: Dier, Rose, Bentaleb, Mason, Kane. That's 5 players in one season; i.e. half of the out-field team!
How many more players do some of you want Poch to introduce in 1 season? And if results won't go Spurs' way... the fans will be calling for him to get the sack. And should a youngster play badly if often will affect his development as his confidence may suffer (yes, footballers all have stage fright).
I am not saying I am totally convinced by Poch's high-pressue high line defensive line but that's another debate.

Ehm, Rose was a regular last season. You may not have liked him then but he's been in most SC'ers top players thois season.

Kane has been around the first team for several years, but Sherwood recognised he was ready and played him in a few games last season - starting him in the last 6 where he scored 3 goals. So he was hardly a 'new boy' Poch started him as 3rd striker (giving Soldadoi and Aebayor every opportunity) but Kane showed in his EL outings with great goialsciring that last seasion was no fluke, and Poch had to start him in PL after no shows from Soldado and Adebayor.

Likewise Sherwood introduced Bentaleb last season, and after dire showings from other more experienced CM's Bentaleb was given first team CM status - and hasn't looked back since.

Mason was allowed pre-season to show Poch he was a player alongside Capoue, and showed he could do it, was injured just before the end of pre-season, but put on in the first game he was fit, showed what he could do and the more experienced CM's were sent packing. So yes Poch did give Mason his break.

Dier was bought as a lomg standing CB target, and surprisingly preferred at RB in the first game of the season - showed he could hack it. Been in and out of the side but definitetly showed he's got a long term future at Spurs. Does Poch deserve crtedit for playing him or the guys who bought him knowing his talents - tough calll ?

So I do not believe it is correect in any shape or form to say Poch introduced half a team of youngsters.

What is absolutely clear is that Poch has been very conservative versus ManU, Liverpool, Chelsea who have all given much more playing time to youngsters - often aged 18 than Poch who has given a TOTAL of 16 minutes playing time to Onomah and Winks JOINTLY.

Time that Poch did introduce some youngsters intio the first team, whilst blending in other more experienced players

 

[garryparkerschest]

Dier was bought as a lomg standing CB target, and surprisingly preferred at RB in the first game of the season - showed he could hack it. Been in and out of the side but definitetly showed he's got a long term future at Spurs. Does Poch deserve crtedit for playing him or the guys who bought him knowing his talents - tough calll ?

He was playing CB until Naughton got sent off.

 

[Spursidol]

He was playing CB until Naughton got sent off.

true, but Naughton sent off after less than half an hour so most of Dier's time in that match was spent as RB, and I think he continued there for the next match or two to my surprise (I hadn't known he was that good at RB before then)

 

[YiddoTom90]

I would've loved Xavi here for 1 or two seasons, no point him going to the far east, hes still good

 

[newbie]

We've got the makings of a great team here. We really need to build on the core of Dier, Rose, Mason, Bentaleb and Kane. Lloris is world-class and Eriksen (if he can perform for a full season) and Verts (if his mind's on the game for a full season) are top drawer. That's a minimum of 8 quality players to build around. What we're conspicuously lacking is experience, and specifically experience of achieving things at a higher level than we currently operate at. None of our players (with the arguable exception of Lloris) has that.

If we could somehow get, for example, Lavezzi (probably pie in the sky, but lots of media talk) and Cambiasso (much more likely if he fancies a move), we could solve this issue at a stroke. Cambiasso is undoubtedly made of the right stuff, having just dragged Leicester over the line; and Lavezzi from what I recall is a hard worker on the field. They could be inspirational figures for our younger players to learn from. The fact they both happen to be Argentinean probably doesn't hurt either.

Likely/hopeful sales: Ade, Capoue, Kaboul, Lennon, Chiriches, Paulinho, Holtby

We could go into the new season something like this (with minimum outlay):

4-3-3
Lloris
Walker Dier Verts Rose
Dembele Bents Mason(Cambiasso)
Lavezzi(Lamela) Kane Eriksen

4-2-3-1
Lloris
Walker Dier Verts Rose
Bents Mason
Lavezzi(Lamela) Demb Eriksen(Chadli)
Kane

4-4-2
Lloris
Walker Dier Verts Rose
Townsend Bents Demb Eriksen
Lavezzi Kane

2nd string (all start in the Europa):
Vorm
Yedlin Fazio CB Davies
Stamb Cambiasso (+Carroll in a 4-3-3)
Townsend Pritchard Chadli (- Townsend or Chadli in a 4-3-3)
Soldado

And I'd like to see Poch willing to try all three formations. 4-3-3 against the 'big 4'. Maybe 4-4-2 in easier home games.
Sorted.
(If you think Lavezzi is wildly unrealistic, I'd be happy to hear of more realistic alternatives.)

I agree I was thinking shawcross and carrick I think they would be perfect, but yes we need a couple of older stable heads.

 

[newbie]

Ehm, Rose was a regular last season. You may not have liked him then but he's been in most SC'ers top players thois season.

Kane has been around the first team for several years, but Sherwood recognised he was ready and played him in a few games last season - starting him in the last 6 where he scored 3 goals. So he was hardly a 'new boy' Poch started him as 3rd striker (giving Soldadoi and Aebayor every opportunity) but Kane showed in his EL outings with great goialsciring that last seasion was no fluke, and Poch had to start him in PL after no shows from Soldado and Adebayor.

Likewise Sherwood introduced Bentaleb last season, and after dire showings from other more experienced CM's Bentaleb was given first team CM status - and hasn't looked back since.

Mason was allowed pre-season to show Poch he was a player alongside Capoue, and showed he could do it, was injured just before the end of pre-season, but put on in the first game he was fit, showed what he could do and the more experienced CM's were sent packing. So yes Poch did give Mason his break.

Dier was bought as a lomg standing CB target, and surprisingly preferred at RB in the first game of the season - showed he could hack it. Been in and out of the side but definitetly showed he's got a long term future at Spurs. Does Poch deserve crtedit for playing him or the guys who bought him knowing his talents - tough calll ?

So I do not believe it is correect in any shape or form to say Poch introduced half a team of youngsters.

What is absolutely clear is that Poch has been very conservative versus ManU, Liverpool, Chelsea who have all given much more playing time to youngsters - often aged 18 than Poch who has given a TOTAL of 16 minutes playing time to Onomah and Winks JOINTLY.

Time that Poch did introduce some youngsters intio the first team, whilst blending in other more experienced players

I do think poch has done a good job it's a tough job at spurs, but he could have used cups to bring though a few more players, but then why should he bring though young players? When spurs are so results obsessed rather than looking to build something for the future, his balls are on the block he needs Wins young players getting minutes does not protect his job. We have a trigger happy chairman the press say so till levy and the fans back him to the end he has to be very brave. He has watched a lot of youth games this year next couple of seasons I hope he brings though players. Also read http://www1.skysports.com/football/...e-than-la-liga-bundesliga-ligue-1-and-serie-a his not done to badly

 

[mendesstormer]

I agree I was thinking shawcross and carrick I think they would be perfect, but yes we need a couple of older stable heads.

Carrick crossed my mind, too. But let's face it - he's not coming back to Spurs.

 

[Dharmabum]

Ehm, Rose was a regular last season. You may not have liked him then but he's been in most SC'ers top players thois season.

Kane has been around the first team for several years, but Sherwood recognised he was ready and played him in a few games last season - starting him in the last 6 where he scored 3 goals. So he was hardly a 'new boy' Poch started him as 3rd striker (giving Soldadoi and Aebayor every opportunity) but Kane showed in his EL outings with great goialsciring that last seasion was no fluke, and Poch had to start him in PL after no shows from Soldado and Adebayor.

Likewise Sherwood introduced Bentaleb last season, and after dire showings from other more experienced CM's Bentaleb was given first team CM status - and hasn't looked back since.

Mason was allowed pre-season to show Poch he was a player alongside Capoue, and showed he could do it, was injured just before the end of pre-season, but put on in the first game he was fit, showed what he could do and the more experienced CM's were sent packing. So yes Poch did give Mason his break.

Dier was bought as a lomg standing CB target, and surprisingly preferred at RB in the first game of the season - showed he could hack it. Been in and out of the side but definitetly showed he's got a long term future at Spurs. Does Poch deserve crtedit for playing him or the guys who bought him knowing his talents - tough calll ?

So I do not believe it is correect in any shape or form to say Poch introduced half a team of youngsters.

What is absolutely clear is that Poch has been very conservative versus ManU, Liverpool, Chelsea who have all given much more playing time to youngsters - often aged 18 than Poch who has given a TOTAL of 16 minutes playing time to Onomah and Winks JOINTLY.

Time that Poch did introduce some youngsters intio the first team, whilst blending in other more experienced players

I see what you mean but none of these 5 players had cemented a regular spot in the team before this season.
ManU had a terribe start of the season, so van Gaal ditched many of the academy players he used as starters. How many "new and young" regulars were regulars by the end of the season for ManU?
Chelski did not introduce any "new and young " regular in the team - unless you count Matic who cost £23M.
There's a differene between "sprinkling" the line up on occasions with younger players, another is to intergrate younger players into the team as regulars.


Post from:

@spurs9

Kristof Terreur ‏@HLNinEngeland 10h10 hours agoLondon, England
No surprises, please. U21-players only played 5.3% of PL minutes this season. Lowest figure of big-5. French Ligue 1 has 12.1%. (CIES)

In comparison, at Spurs, U21 players played 21% of PL minutes this season. Massively above the average.

Edit: 43% of the PL mins this season for Spurs, were played by players 23 or under!!!

 

[yankspurs]

We really need some experienced leadership that could slot into the first team. IMO, it's clearly our biggest need. Worrying that Poch doesnt seem to be after anyone in that regard.

I would have loved Xavi for a year or 2, but he's going to the far east. Should have made a run at him. It was a big mistake not to.

 

[Dharmabum]

We really need some experienced leadership that could slot into the first team. IMO, it's clearly our biggest need. Worrying that Poch doesnt seem to be after anyone in that regard.

I would have loved Xavi for a year or 2, but he's going to the far east. Should have made a run at him. It was a big mistake not to.

He was always set for a Middel east bumper deal. He's won it all so I believe mentally he was ready to take a step "down".

 

[YiddoTom90]

He was always set for a Middel east bumper deal. He's won it all so I believe mentally he was ready to take a step "down".

lets be honest he was at barca for 24 years, he doesn't need the money, and his experience would've helped our younger players for sure with the amount hes won in his career, still good aswell, so much to offer still. going to al sadd? yes he will get paid more but its a career graveyard and a waste

 

[yankspurs]

He was always set for a Middel east bumper deal. He's won it all so I believe mentally he was ready to take a step "down".

Not really. He was all set to go to MLS last summer until Qatar beat the offer and he was able to stay Barca for another year.

 

[Dharmabum]

Not really. He was all set to go to MLS last summer until Qatar beat the offer and he was able to stay Barca for another year.

That depends on which paper you read. Sport.es were pretty clear that he was heading to Qatar last summer already but decide to spend another year at Barca (to "help" Luis Enrique out).

 

[Dharmabum]

lets be honest he was at barca for 24 years, he doesn't need the money, and his experience would've helped our younger players for sure with the amount hes won in his career, still good aswell, so much to offer still. going to al sadd? yes he will get paid more but its a career graveyard and a waste

Neither does Cristian Ronaldo nor Rooney need the money, yet they're ready to "listen" to the highest bidders. Xavi's action speaks loud enough: he went for a last bumper pay out (and I am not blaming him); and that is a fact wheher one feels his talent is wasted or not in the Qatar league.
I am not saying I didn't want Xavi at Spurs. However, I can understand why Xavi want to play in a far less demanding league at his age. There were plenty of clubs in Europe wanting him.

 

[arunspurs]

Its very hard to get a experienced & quality player - who is still in the prime.

I would look someone like Claudio Marchisio - Juventus CM. He has one year left in his deal. Salary is 40k gbp per week.
Even if we could offer us 3 years, that would be beneficial to likes of Bentaleb, Mason & Alli. Ofcourse, I understand it is next to impossible to tempt a player out of a team like Juventus - especially one that has never changed a club before.

Regardless, he is the kind of player we should be looking at. Experienced, still in prime, fit with no injuries & quality.