Bolton to forfeit

[Star_of_Davids]

Some unbelievable comments on here.



(although quite why our game at the Reebok has been postponed god only knows) .

I know this was only an aside to your post but our game at the Reebok has been postponed because either us or them will be playing in the FA Cup semi final that weekend!

The 'replayed' match against Bolton should take place at WHL and nowhere else. Firstly it's bad enough that the semis are at Wembley, never mind any other match. Secondly it would be half empty as Bolton fans wouldn't come down to London for a midweek match with only one week to arrange it. Thirdly, there would there is no reason why we should give up home advantage.

 

[Mullers]

I think that's incredibly excessive. Might as well border up White Hart Lane and cancel all sporting competitions in the country whilst we're at it.

It's tragic what has happened with Muamba, and I hope he manages to pull through, but the cold hard fact is that incidents like this, though rare, can potentially happen at any time. Should a competition automatically be cancelled if someone dies or is hospitalised?

I don't see what good cancelling the FA cup would do for anyone concerned. Life is full of death and sadness. The great thing about football is that it provides people with moments of joy, and something to be passionate about. It's an escape from the sadness in the world, and unfortunately this escapism was shattered in the most horrible way on Saturday.

The feelings from that day are obviously fresh in the mind of a lot of us, but don't let that cloud your understanding of the incredibly positive effect that a simple game of football can have for millions of people.

Cancelling the FA cup would simply serve to extend the misery.

You have a valid argument. Every case has to be judged on it's merits, there isn't a definite black and white answer to this because everyone deals with death differently. The Doncaster player Billy Sharp played even though his son died a few days previously, that is something I and many people could never do but I have tremendous respect for the guy for doing it.

I guess I see cancelling the FA cup as a mark of respect for Muamba and a time for people to reflect.

 

[haxman]

You have a valid argument. Every case has to be judged on it's merits, there isn't a definite black and white answer to this because everyone deals with death differently. The Doncaster player Billy Sharp played even though his son died a few days previously, that is something I and many people could never do but I have tremendous respect for the guy for doing it.

I guess I see cancelling the FA cup as a mark of respect for Muamba and a time for people to reflect.

If it were someone who died in an industrial accident, would you have the company cancel the job as a mark of respect for their employee? We had people die from accidents in my time in Intel and things went on as before, after safety reviews and spec updates and all. Life must go on.

 

[Spurger King]

You have a valid argument. Every case has to be judged on it's merits, there isn't a definite black and white answer to this because everyone deals with death differently. The Doncaster player Billy Sharp played even though his son died a few days previously, that is something I and many people could never do but I have tremendous respect for the guy for doing it.

I guess I see cancelling the FA cup as a mark of respect for Muamba and a time for people to reflect.

Fair enough, though I think there are better ways to show a mark of respect for Muamba. Hopefully he'll pull through anyway.

For me a big problem with cancelling an event due to the hospitalisation and/or death of a participant is that it sets a precedent which if other organisations did not follow, would open them up to accusations of disrespect. Plus where would the line be drawn? Is it just players or does it extend to managers, coaches, backroom staff and fans?

Whilst I see what you mean about allowing people a time to reflect, it can also be a time to dwell, which is far less healthy. People will reflect in their own way, and if any players (or teams) would rather not play in the competition for the remainder of the season then that's their decision. However I don't think that decision should be made for them by cancelling the competition.

 

[Mr Pink]

Fair enough, though I think there are better ways to show a mark of respect for Muamba. Hopefully he'll pull through anyway.

For me a big problem with cancelling an event due to the hospitalisation and/or death of a participant is that it sets a precedent which if other organisations did not follow, would open them up to accusations of disrespect. Plus where would the line be drawn? Is it just players or does it extend to managers, coaches, backroom staff and fans?

Whilst I see what you mean about allowing people a time to reflect, it can also be a time to dwell, which is far less healthy. People will reflect in their own way, and if any players (or teams) would rather not play in the competition for the remainder of the season then that's their decision. However I don't think that decision should be made for them by cancelling the competition.

Perfectly put IMO.

 

[AngerManagement]

out of interest

What happened in the respective countries when Foe and Puetra died on the pitch?

As I recall the tournament continued after Foe died (correct me if I am wrong)

Did Cameroon pull out? or were they eliminated and not have to make a choice?

Sevilla I assume finished their season, did they cancel any matches? if so how many?

What happened with the Togo team after the bus shooting? I know Adebayor refused to play for them for a while, did they end up failing to complete any scheduled matches?

There are a lot of precedents unfortunately so its interest to see what course of action has been taken in the past.

 

[buttons]

Surely the best way to show respect for Muamba is for the two teams to play the game he loves - the game should go ahead with both teams dedicating it to his recovery and with all proceeds going to a charity that deals with this kind of incident in sport.

 

[Mullers]

If it were someone who died in an industrial accident, would you have the company cancel the job as a mark of respect for their employee? We had people die from accidents in my time in Intel and things went on as before, after safety reviews and spec updates and all. Life must go on.

No definitely not but that is because I think most industries don't really give a shit as long as the job gets done. Football seems to be different in that respect.

Fair enough, though I think there are better ways to show a mark of respect for Muamba. Hopefully he'll pull through anyway.

For me a big problem with cancelling an event due to the hospitalisation and/or death of a participant is that it sets a precedent which if other organisations did not follow, would open them up to accusations of disrespect. Plus where would the line be drawn? Is it just players or does it extend to managers, coaches, backroom staff and fans?

Whilst I see what you mean about allowing people a time to reflect, it can also be a time to dwell, which is far less healthy. People will reflect in their own way, and if any players (or teams) would rather not play in the competition for the remainder of the season then that's their decision. However I don't think that decision should be made for them by cancelling the competition.

It's a tough one, the FA cup and European cup should have definitely been cancelled after Hillsborough and Heysel. In the case of Heysel the match wasn't even cancelled. Like I said every case on their merits.

Wouldn't players or teams who wanted to play when some didn't ,also come under fire for disrespect?

 

[nailsy]

They should hold the replay for THFC vs Bolton in wembley charge £20 a ticket and give all the proceeds too heart research! #Pray4Muamba

Everybody tweet that see if we can get a campaign going I think it's the best way forward

I think I said this in another thread - Playing the game at Wembley sounds like a good idea, but wouldn't it just make an already emotional game even more stressful? I serioulsy doubt the players would welcome the extra pressure a Wembley televised cup tie would bring right now. If they want to do a tribute game for him and his charity then do it post/pre season when the pressures off.

What Bolton decide to do as a club is up to them and I can understand how they must all be feeling right now. Their decision to postpone their game this week under the circumstances makes a lot of sense as the players may well be be too upset to play their best football while this is all so fresh.

What we do as a club is another matter. Of course our players and club staff will be feeling incredibly upset too but, no matter what the outcome for Fabrice Muamba, we shouldn't let it influence the rest of our season.

If someone dies or becomes critically ill at your workplace, do you close down the office or factory? No, you give as much support as you can, deal with the situation and continue working, perhaps with even more concentrated effort than usual.

My feeling is that it would be completely OTT to give up our FA Cup quest or postpone our games although we will have to abide by whatever decision Bolton make about the inpending Cup replay.

Well said. Bolton deserve our respect in any decision they make in regards to the replay but we can't let our whole season fall apart after this. Everyone should pull together to make sure that lessons are learned from what has happened but we still need to finish our season and hit the targets we had before the game on Saturday.

 

[Misfit]

Jeebus. Replay the game at the Lane. If Bolton feel it's not right to continue, then fair enough. Let them withdraw from the comp. It's their decision. Get back to the remainder of our season.

None of this means that the players have to stop caring about the situation or prevents them from hoping Muamba makes a strong recovery etc. They can visit him, give money to charities etc, offer emotional support to family and friends, all those things.

They can also do their jobs.

I fully exect one or two jowel-tremblers to respond with some guff like "omg, you've suggested that people try and continue living life, you heartless bastard" - just save it.

 

[camaj]

I'm worried that it's getting dangerously close to grief porn. While it's clearly terrible that this has happened it's a bit silly to stop doing everything out of respect, etc. There's nothing disrespectful about going ahead, I can understand Bolton's players not wanting to play it's more because of the distraction rather than respect. In some ways I think the game shouldn't have been called off but it would have been a bit unfair to expect Bolton to carry on.


If we want to do something to show our support a minutes applause or whatever before the game is appropriate. Dropping out of the cup won't help anyone neither will rearranging the game against Stoke. I'm sure the players are fine now they've got over the shock.

 

[markiespurs]

If Bolton decide to forfeit the game then thats their decision and, under the circumstances, one i would fully understand and respect, even though i don't agree with it.

 

[talkshowhost86]

If Bolton decide to forfeit the game then thats their decision and, under the circumstances, one i would fully understand and respect, even though i don't agree with it.

I think this is it basically. If Bolton want to withdraw then that's totally understandable and we should support that decision, as we should if they want to play.

 

[JollyHappy]

The news now coming out sounds like he has a possible chance of pulling through although no idea probably for some time what the long term prognosis is.

Being harsh but realistic, if he had or is going to die before next Wednesday then I'd understand Bolton not wanting to play. But if he is seriously ill but with us then they should really be playing the game and maybe they may even achieve another miracle as it seems that the fact the guy is still alive at the moment is a miracle in itself.

 

[rich75]

I'm worried that it's getting dangerously close to grief porn.

This, why is it seemingly impossible for anything to happen untoward these days without half the country breaking down in tears or calling for grand gestures to be made.

I blame Diana myself.

 

[ItsBoris]

Jeebus. Replay the game at the Lane. If Bolton feel it's not right to continue, then fair enough. Let them withdraw from the comp. It's their decision. Get back to the remainder of our season.

None of this means that the players have to stop caring about the situation or prevents them from hoping Muamba makes a strong recovery etc. They can visit him, give money to charities etc, offer emotional support to family and friends, all those things.

They can also do their jobs.

I fully exect one or two jowel-tremblers to respond with some guff like "omg, you've suggested that people try and continue living life, you heartless bastard" - just save it.

Yes this has annoyed me a bit (not your post but the attitude that things should grind to a halt). Also people saying that what happened means that football is unimportant or meaningless, and the rest of the season doesn't matter. Sorry but I never felt that football was anywhere close to as important as my family and relationships and people's lives, and it doesn't take a tragedy to make me understand that, but it is still important and we attach greater meaning to it than simply kicking a ball around the field. Spurs are an important thing in my life and will remain so as long as the club exists, and I would be disappointed if the players showed any less enthusiasm or passion toward our club as a result of what happened. The game on Wednesday, the players and fans have to get on with it and treat it like a normal game, besides whatever dedication we give before the match begins.

Also just to add, people prefacing a football related comment with anything along the lines of "I don't mean to be insensitive, but..." please stop! You are not being insensitive by discussing football on a football forum.

 

[DiscoD1882]

Much as I think we should keep the positive feelings going regarding Muamba. This does seem to be turning into the footballing equivalent of princess diana's death, and the poor fella isn't even dead. the replay should be at WHL and I'm sure Bolton will play and mores the point will WANT to play

 

[Dan Yeats]

What I would like to happen, and actually what I think will happen, is for the game to go ahead at WHL and the proceeds be given to an appropriate charity.

 

[spud]

What I would like to happen, and actually what I think will happen, is for the game to go ahead at WHL and the proceeds be given to an appropriate charity.

I'm glad that some perspective has broken out over this (some posts prior to Dan's - Misfit, ItsBoris, DiscoD1882 etc.) and I respect the views of those who have suggested a contribution to charity.

Any charitable donation, however, should not be at the expense of Spurs. The club / Bolton Wanderers / individuals would have no problem raising a shed load of cash in the light of what has just happened, but we should not give gate receipts. That's a couple of million that should go towards improving the club.

Am I insensitive? Possibly. Those who feel strongly about this can always give a week's wages to make themselves feel better.

 

[Dan Yeats]

I'm glad that some perspective has broken out over this (some posts prior to Dan's - Misfit, ItsBoris, DiscoD1882 etc.) and I respect the views of those who have suggested a contribution to charity.

Any charitable donation, however, should not be at the expense of Spurs. The club / Bolton Wanderers / individuals would have no problem raising a shed load of cash in the light of what has just happened, but we should not give gate receipts. That's a couple of million that should go towards improving the club.

Am I insensitive? Possibly. Those who feel strongly about this can always give a week's wages to make themselves feel better.

Have fans been refunded their original cost?

A possibility that could appease both points of view is to give fans the choice - receive a refund on their original ticket price, or have it donated. If there's a replay then the club doesn't lose out, and I expect a large proportion of the fans would donate their refund of the original match.