Boxing thread?

[SugarRay]

He really didn't fight anyone special at Cruiserweight either, Glen Kelly 3 years after he got whipped by Roy Jones Jr, Jean Marc Mormeck
I've only heard of Virgil Hill out of the opponents Mormeck has beaten and then lastly Enzo Maccarinelli.

He had just one fight at heavyweight against Barrett before fighting Valuev. The truth is Haye is a much better talker and promoter than he is a fighter, that's how he managed to get his world title shots in the first place .

Mormeck was a world class, undisputed champion. Haye smashing him in his own backyard is one of the best wins from a British fighter in the recent era.

 

[SugarRay]

Disappointing. I guess for people who just love boxing, it may be different, but so many times I watch these hyped up fights and once they're done I just think thank fuck I didn't pay for that, let alone make the effort to actually go and watch it live.

I love boxing and hate fights like last night. You’ll find most who are really in to it only watched to see how Joyce is progressing. The answer to that is very well. He’d take both Haye and Bellew apart for example, even after only four fights!

 

[Spurrific]

I love boxing and hate fights like last night. You’ll find most who are really in to it only watched to see how Joyce is progressing. The answer to that is very well. He’d take both Haye and Bellew apart for example, even after only four fights!

Looks a great prospect, doesn’t he? Him and Dubois look like they could surpass AJ, to me.

 

[haxman]

I love boxing and hate fights like last night. You’ll find most who are really in to it only watched to see how Joyce is progressing. The answer to that is very well. He’d take both Haye and Bellew apart for example, even after only four fights!

Tbh so would Usyk and Gassiev at cruiser imo. Bellew should not go near either.

 

[SugarRay]

Tbh so would Usyk and Gassiev at cruiser imo. Bellew should not go near either.

I’d say Dorticos and Breidis especially would take him apart too. Of the four, he’ll target Uysk because he isn’t as dangerous. He’d box Bellew’s head off no doubt, but he isn’t a massive banger. Gassiev might be the winner of the series though, that’s a dangerous fight to Tony’s health. He’d take his head off his shoulders

 

[SugarRay]

Looks a great prospect, doesn’t he? Him and Dubois look like they could surpass AJ, to me.

He reminds me of a poor mans George Foreman. That’s a huge compliment by the way.
Obviously he might not be able to carry that relentless style up in class but he’s going to be fun to watch.

Dubois is absolute class from what I’ve heard. I have two friends who spar him regular, they’ve both sparred Joyce, one has sparred Hughie Fury and Nathan Gorman too and they say Dubois is an animal with ridiculous power.

 

[Mullers]

Pretty good British boxer? That’s Bellew.

Haye in his prime was a British great, a bonafide unified genuine world champion and truly world class cruiser.
He was violent, ruthless and exciting who would fight anyone.
His career at heavyweight was a cash grab to a degree, but he was an exciting addition at the time he moved up, and beating Valuev and then pounding Ruiz, who hadn’t been outclassed for years, are two very good results.

The last time David Haye was seen in a boxing ring was against Chisora. He’s been washed up and finished for years. He was embarassing last night, timing completely gone, footwork was terrible, no leverage, no reflexes, just washed up. Happens all the time in boxing, the sport is littered with fighters who went on far too long.

The whole Bellew/comeback thing was a charade from start to finish and all about money. Matchroom and Tony both in on it, created the storyline and then sold it well. Fair play to all of them, but it had nothing to do with top level boxing and especially top level heavyweight boxing.

The fact Bellew called out a retired light heavyweight with zero power says it all

Haye is very athletic with an exciting style, who is good looking and talks a lot. Valuev and Ruiz are two very average fighters, I wouldn't think of them as great results at all. The minute he came up against class he was beaten easily. Even a washed up Haye was expected to smash Bellew in the first fight. Then when he didn't do that people made excuses for him and said he would smash him the second fight he hasn't done that either. I think Bellew deserves a ton of credit tbh.

 

[Mullers]

Mormeck was a world class, undisputed champion. Haye smashing him in his own backyard is one of the best wins from a British fighter in the recent era.

Again who did Mormeck fight and beat to be considered world class? I've looked at his record and I don't see anyone.

 

[SugarRay]

Again who did Mormeck fight and beat to be considered world class? I've looked at his record and I don't see anyone.

O’Neil Bell was world class. They fought for the honour of unified, undisputed champion. The only reason one of the belts wasn’t on the line was down to Bell being stripped beforehand I believe.

Because you don’t recognise a name, probably fed to you by Matchroom etc, doesn’t mean they aren’t a world class fighter.

 

[SugarRay]

Haye is very athletic with an exciting style, who is good looking and talks a lot. Valuev and Ruiz are two very average fighters, I wouldn't think of them as great results at all. The minute he came up against class he was beaten easily. Even a washed up Haye was expected to smash Bellew in the first fight. Then when he didn't do that people made excuses for him and said he would smash him the second fight he hasn't done that either. I think Bellew deserves a ton of credit tbh.

So that’s Ruiz, a two time world title holder at heavyweight, considered an average fighter? He wasn’t flashy, nor great to watch, but make no mistake he was a top 5 heavyweight at stages in his career. Valuev was just awkward given his sheer size, but he had some decent wins and again, held a version to the title.

Ruiz had only been outclassed twice before in his career, early blowout versus Tua and then Roy Jones. It’s a cracking result at heavyweight. He has wins over Rahman, Kirk Johnson, and a not quite ancient Holyfield amongst others. Being horrible to watch doesn’t mean you aren’t a high level fighter.

An average fighter is someone like Matt Skelton or Harrison. At best, top 35 heavyweights.

Nobody made excuses for Haye, those in the know were writing him off well before the Bellew fight. The only chance he had is if he had anything left and that’s based on Bellew not being a top level heavyweight.

 

[Mullers]

O’Neil Bell was world class. They fought for the honour of unified, undisputed champion. The only reason one of the belts wasn’t on the line was down to Bell being stripped beforehand I believe.

Because you don’t recognise a name, probably fed to you by Matchroom etc, doesn’t mean they aren’t a world class fighter.

Bell beat Mormeck in the first fight though. Surely a fighter should be judged by the standard of the opposition.

 

[Mullers]

So that’s Ruiz, a two time world title holder at heavyweight, considered an average fighter? He wasn’t flashy, nor great to watch, but make no mistake he was a top 5 heavyweight at stages in his career. Valuev was just awkward given his sheer size, but he had some decent wins and again, held a version to the title.

Ruiz had only been outclassed twice before in his career, early blowout versus Tua and then Roy Jones. It’s a cracking result at heavyweight. He has wins over Rahman, Kirk Johnson, and a not quite ancient Holyfield amongst others. Being horrible to watch doesn’t mean you aren’t a high level fighter.

An average fighter is someone like Matt Skelton or Harrison. At best, top 35 heavyweights.

Nobody made excuses for Haye, those in the know were writing him off well before the Bellew fight. The only chance he had is if he had anything left and that’s based on Bellew not being a top level heavyweight.

Herbie Hide is a two time world champion, Ruslan Chagaev is a three time world champion, history will not remember them as some of them best heavyweights.

Ruiz is a durable fighter was made to look very silly against Jones. He's about the same standard perhaps as Danny Williams.

 

[dontcallme]

Herbie Hide is a two time world champion, Ruslan Chagaev is a three time world champion, history will not remember them as some of them best heavyweights.

Ruiz is a durable fighter was made to look very silly against Jones. He's about the same standard perhaps as Danny Williams.

I think the point is you are only interested in the truly elite fighters.

To many writing Haye’s career off as only having a mouth is simply incorrect.

He ruled the cruiserweight division then made the notoriously difficult step up to the heavyweight division.

Fighting larger opponents he beat some good fighters and became world champion before losing to a great champ who dwarfed him.

I don’t like Haye because of his mouth. But his career was more than just a mouth.

 

[Mullers]

I think the point is you are only interested in the truly elite fighters.

To many writing Haye’s career off as only having a mouth is simply incorrect.

He ruled the cruiserweight division then made the notoriously difficult step up to the heavyweight division.

Fighting larger opponents he beat some good fighters and became world champion before losing to a great champ who dwarfed him.

I don’t like Haye because of his mouth. But his career was more than just a mouth.

That's not true at all.

I'm just looking at facts. He had skill, he had great potential, he had the look and all the talk but his potential has not been realised. If he wasn't British not many would care really. For me it's unfortunate that he couldn't back up the talk, there were some good fights that could have been made.

 

[SugarRay]

Bell beat Mormeck in the first fight though. Surely a fighter should be judged by the standard of the opposition.

He beat a world class fighter, they had a win over each other. He also beat world level operators too.

 

[SugarRay]

Herbie Hide is a two time world champion, Ruslan Chagaev is a three time world champion, history will not remember them as some of them best heavyweights.

Ruiz is a durable fighter was made to look very silly against Jones. He's about the same standard perhaps as Danny Williams.

Williams lost well below that level and Williams never ever really mixed it at that level. Ruiz would have beat him comfortably.

Hide won the WBO, back when it never counted. Chagaev is a one time champion. The ‘regular’ belt he won doesn’t count.

Ruiz won a genuine version of the title. I never said he’d be remembered as a one of the best heavyweights, I said he was a top 5 heavyweight, on more than one occasion, during his career. It’s a top win, especially for a blown up cruiserweight.

Haye is one of the very few genuine British unified champs. For example, in comparison, Bellew never won a genuine world title. Boxing is full of smoke and mirrors, promoters and tv calling people world champions when they really aren’t, yet people fall for it time and again. Haye was a genuine world champion, and a unified, undisputed champ at that. Do you realise how few undisputed champions Britain have produced?
He’s a genuine British great.

 

[SugarRay]

That's not true at all.

I'm just looking at facts. He had skill, he had great potential, he had the look and all the talk but his potential has not been realised. If he wasn't British not many would care really. For me it's unfortunate that he couldn't back up the talk, there were some good fights that could have been made.

It is true. Haye ruled the cruisers. Undisputed champion. Not sure how you can say otherwise. Ignorance is bliss I guess. Just because you don’t like him let’s not try and rewrite history!

 

[Mullers]

Williams lost well below that level and Williams never ever really mixed it at that level. Ruiz would have beat him comfortably.

Hide won the WBO, back when it never counted. Chagaev is a one time champion. The ‘regular’ belt he won doesn’t count.

Ruiz won a genuine version of the title. I never said he’d be remembered as a one of the best heavyweights, I said he was a top 5 heavyweight, on more than one occasion, during his career. It’s a top win, especially for a blown up cruiserweight.

Haye is one of the very few genuine British unified champs. For example, in comparison, Bellew never won a genuine world title. Boxing is full of smoke and mirrors, promoters and tv calling people world champions when they really aren’t, yet people fall for it time and again. Haye was a genuine world champion, and a unified, undisputed champ at that. Do you realise how few undisputed champions Britain have produced?
He’s a genuine British great.

He beat Tyson who was no longer at his best but he still wasn't expected to win. He also took Vitali to 8 rounds, like I said he's a durable tough fighter. I don't think he would have ever lost to Roy Jones.

Hide lost the title to Bowe and Vitality two massive names in boxing, it definitely does count. Chagaev won the WBA title twice and was reinstated as champ after Brown failed a drug test.

Bellew won the WBC title, I'm not saying he's a great fighter by any means, his physic look terrible especially compared to Haye. All I'm saying is he deserves a lot of credit for beating Haye twice.

 

[Mullers]

It is true. Haye ruled the cruisers. Undisputed champion. Not sure how you can say otherwise. Ignorance is bliss I guess. Just because you don’t like him let’s not try and rewrite history!

Na don't have any particular animosity towards him, I just think of him as someone who was overrated and couldn't back it up. If you talk a lot and can't back it up, you look silly.

 

[SugarRay]

He beat Tyson who was no longer at his best but he still wasn't expected to win. He also took Vitali to 8 rounds, like I said he's a durable tough fighter. I don't think he would have ever lost to Roy Jones.

Hide lost the title to Bowe and Vitality two massive names in boxing, it definitely does count. Chagaev won the WBA title twice and was reinstated as champ after Brown failed a drug test.

Bellew won the WBC title, I'm not saying he's a great fighter by any means, his physic look terrible especially compared to Haye. All I'm saying is he deserves a lot of credit for beating Haye twice.

I give him credit as I do anyone who steps in the ring, but most of my credit to Bellew is based on him maximising his career and earning big money. I like to see fighters earn well, it’s such a tough sport. He’s overachieved and fair play to him. He also did what he said he was going to do against Haye but it seems he knew Haye was shot too. He’s admitted as much.

He also won a vacant WBC title. The true champion was injured so Hearn landed a vacant title shot against the very average Makabu. He then follows this up with a guy who was barely a top 50 cruiser at the time in BJ Flores. Awful opponent for a world title fight!

Chagaev won a proper version once. I can’t take the regular belts seriously to be honest, that would make Manuel Charr a current world champion for example!

Hide was actually a decent fighter and pretty exciting. He was actually betting favourite against Vitality believe it or not! He held the WBO back when nobody cared for it though. It’s telling that as soon as Riddick Bowe bounced him all over the canvas to win that belt, he immediately vacated it. It meant nothing back then really.

I love Danny Williams and he gave it his all against Vitali but he never belonged at that level. Supposedly he was at his best in the gym and could never really transfer it to the ring. If Julius Francis and the likes can beat him, Jones would have stood a decent chance