Ched Evans Jailed...

[Rout-Ledge]

I'm sure there are loads of honest, hard working, never committed a crime cleaners and shelf stackers who would take offence to you lumping them in as being the only scum fit to work with rapists, sex offenders and assorted convicted criminals...

Fair point.

 

[Gbspurs]

It's a serious discussion about rape. I'm not making jokes.

It's a perfectly acceptable technique to use an extreme example in order to demonstrate a point. It's an easy way to do it quickly.

The example is extreme though and not that comparable imo. Anyway this is distracting from the main discussion so lets move it on.

 

[Amo]

That woman is a pain in the arse. I don't think it's fair to lump everyone who doesn't think it's appropriate to have him playing professional football in with her though.

Why is she a pain in the arse? I don't know anything about her apart from the fact the started those petitions.

 

[SpursOldBoy]

I am choosing to look at this differently here, but is she really a 'victim'.

In the true sense of the word, obviously yes. But... she can't even remember the incident.

Hopefully, this has left her slightly detached from the situation if she really was raped. It shouldn't have caused too many psychological issues.

Yes, she is a victim. My wife works with victims of DV and SV everyday - the fact that she does not remember the incident could be a coping mechanism. Also, if she can't remember the incident then by default she was unable to give consent, which therefore means that she was raped.

He has been found guilty in a court of law of this offence, there is no second guessing this, he is guilty.

 

[ERO]

Why are you so oppsed to him working as a footballer again, Amo?

 

[Amo]

The example is extreme though and not that comparable imo. Anyway this is distracting from the main discussion so lets move it on.

Maybe not, but the OP was still insinuating that since someone doesn't remember the rape due to blacking out, it's a victimless crime.

 

[Amo]

Why are you so oppsed to him working as a football again, Amo?

I'd love for him to work as a football.






At the highest level of the professional game.

 

[ERO]

I'd love for him to work as a football.






At the highest level of the professional game.

Nice one.

A d'oh! to myself.

What about as a footballer?

 

[mike_l]

Yes, she is a victim. My wife works with victims of DV and SV everyday - the fact that she does not remember the incident could be a coping mechanism. Also, if she can't remember the incident then by default she was unable to give consent, which therefore means that she was raped.

He has been found guilty in a court of law of this offence, there is no second guessing this, he is guilty.

1) It's not, she was so shitfaced she thought she'd been spiked, which was tested and proven not to be the case.

2) Also not true imo, I've been too pissed to remember withdrawing more money on a night out plenty of times, doesn't mean that I couldn't put my pin in at the time and consent to withdrawing more money, or should my bank refund that for me?

 

[Rout-Ledge]

Why is she a pain in the arse? I don't know anything about her apart from the fact the started those petitions.

Based on her tweets. Personal opinion.

 

[Drexl]

Yes, she is a victim. My wife works with victims of DV and SV everyday - the fact that she does not remember the incident could be a coping mechanism. Also, if she can't remember the incident then by default she was unable to give consent, which therefore means that she was raped.

He has been found guilty in a court of law of this offence, there is no second guessing this, he is guilty.

She didn't remember sexual activity with McDonald either

Either both should have been acquited or both should have been jailed if remembering is a factor

Plus she will have been more sober in her time with Evans than she was in her time with McDonald as no alcohol was consumed in the hotel

 

[beats1]

He can't show any signs of remorse whilst he has an attempted appeal ongoing I would imagine.

Err the best way to handle the defendant from the defence point view is to show remorse. The people who say he cant show remorse and maintain his innocence are talking utter bollocks.

Especially in a high profile case, the defendant would be told that he should be remorseful and be sympathetic whilst maintaining his innocence as a way not to alienate sections of the public who would hate him for being dismissive and disrespectful to the victim. Especially shaming the victim, which is the worse move his family could do.

 

[mike_l]

I laughed off the suggestion that they are both equally prevalent or even remotely "evenly-spread", as you put it later on.

It's impressive that you managed to laugh at that in advance, seeing as the post that you found so amusing mentioned nothing at all about them being equally prevalent, good backtracking...

 

[Gingeryid]

That woman is a pain in the arse. I don't think it's fair to lump everyone who doesn't think it's appropriate to have him playing professional football in with her though.

This petition thing for both Sheffield Utd and now Oldham has been started by the same woman, I would be fascinated to know how many games of football she has been to given she seems to be a Sheffield Utd and oldham fan, or more likely a rabid harridan who is sticking her beak where it doesn't belong

If Waitrose took ched on I would bet my left bollock that this woman and her cronies would be starting a petition

Why should he though

He is a professional footballer, that is what he is trained in, if he was a teacher I could understand the fuss, if a bricklayer goes to jail no one objects to him laying bricks again when he comes out, Same should apply to footballers

Would you be happy if your Sister or Mother worked with him if they were Bricklayers?

 

[RuskyM]

You are contradicting yourself.

If you are saying the fact that he is a convicted rapist can't be questioned, then surely his freedom to now work can't be either?

He has freedom to work. I'm saying people shouldn't employ him, not that they can't.

Also, is it a contradiction? He is a convicted rapist. This is literally a fact.

 

[RuskyM]

But chairmen aren't trying to pretend Evans isn't guilty but rather trying to hire someone who would improve their squad. There is nothing in law to prevent a convicted rapist from playing professional football, in the same way there isn't anything to prevent someone whose actions killed an 8 year and a 10 year old (McCormick) from playing. They are merely treating Evans in the same manner that other footballers convicted of a serious crime were.

But should they? I think people can pretty much agree there's got to be a line somewhere where someone should no longer be adulated and ridiculously rewarded, and surely it should come at people who commit heinous crimes? The fact that McCormick is playing isn't a point in Evans' favour, it's a point against the way we've been doing things so far.

You would not walk back into almost any profession after being convicted of something like this. I consider football a beautiful game played by idolized (rightly or wrongly) men. I do not want my little brother, or anyone's little brother or sister, supporting someone like Evans.

 

[RuskyM]

1) It's not, she was so shitfaced she thought she'd been spiked, which was tested and proven not to be the case.

2) Also not true imo, I've been too pissed to remember withdrawing more money on a night out plenty of times, doesn't mean that I couldn't put my pin in at the time and consent to withdrawing more money, or should my bank refund that for me?

You realise this is a person and not your fucking bank balance, right?

 

[ERO]

When are you a free man again after commiting a crime? Never?

How bad does the crime have to be for you to never be a free man again?

 

[Drexl]

But should they? I think people can pretty much agree there's got to be a line somewhere where someone should no longer be adulated and ridiculously rewarded, and surely it should come at people who commit heinous crimes? The fact that McCormick is playing isn't a point in Evans' favour, it's a point against the way we've been doing things so far.

You would not walk back into almost any profession after being convicted of something like this. I consider football a beautiful game played by idolized (rightly or wrongly) men. I do not want my little brother, or anyone's little brother or sister, supporting someone like Evans.

Would you feel the same way If they idolised

Suarez - cannibal
Giggs - serial love cheat
Gerrard - beat up a dj
Carroll - broke a woman's jaw
Barton - jailed for assault and also nearly blinded a guy
Terry - convicted racist
Ranger - beats up women
Gazza - beat up his wife
McCormick - killer
Hughes - killer
King - beats Up women
Ferdinand - drugs cheat

Point being that football is full of ****s, does one extra make a difference?

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...gn=1490&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Interesting article although not enlightening by any stretch of the imagination, mostly because a main stream journo and paper has published a story slightly off the Twitter morality path...


''The mob misses the point. This is not about him or the prospect of his return with Oldham Athletic. It is about us. The right of rehabilitation is not his to earn. It is ours to give. That is why it cannot be conditional. That is why we do not enforce obligations, draw up set rules demanding remorse and contrition.

Yes, we would prefer offenders to say sorry. That makes us all feel better. But there is no contract, no terms and conditions apply. We may despise Evans, his attitude, his absence of guilt; but we do not abandon our entire belief system because the stance of one individual is a challenge to us. We’re better than that; or we should be.....

...If rape carried a 20-year sentence it would be different. It doesn’t. Evans served the portion of his term that was considered appropriate — or are we rethinking clemency, as well? — and then society’s process begins. We don’t start doctoring it according to the fashions of the day, or the popular vote. We keep the pathway free from the mob.''