Chelsea Vs Tottenham: Match Thread

[maltahotspur]

Martin Jol said something similar once and was sacked within weeks.

Without a big backer and monster stadium, we are not that competitive.
All we can do is hang around 5th place and pick up any scraps if a big 4 club has a crisis.
It is unfortunate that liverpool have seemingly snapped up the current vacancy left by manu.

Well, it is so evident that Tim is and has been on borrowed time since he was given the nod. That is a major contributing factor hindering our progress, a factor that was mistakenly created by the powers that be.

As for having a big backer and monster stadium, although I cannot fail to agree that a bigger stadium will increase our financial power, I don't completely see it that way. You mentioned L'Pool, they are doing it and like us they do not have that commodity themselves.

 

[whitesocks]

But a key difference is that they kept Suarez and we sold Bale. I want to know a little more about that disparity. Both players were under contract. How much was this Levy pulling the trigger? What would have happened if we had refused Bale's request? I guess we won't know (till Bale's biography comes out). I know we are we are. But this rankles.... perhaps Suarez was in a less powerful position, given his ban.

Liverpool lost £50m in the last financial year in the hope that they would get back into the CL.
It looks like it has partly paid off, but in a similar season without manu imploding, all that investment would have got them is europa footy. It does not look a good value bet.

Suarez without the antics is worth more than £40m (+£1) and they arguably did not get a realistic bid.
All the same they took a big gamble that the nutter wouldn't react very badly.
Quite possibly he had one eye on the world cup - they were again very lucky.

This is a club that all but went bust trying to compete with the oil clubs last time.
They are deluded and their position is a false due to their lack of European football this season.

 

[spursbhoy67]

I think a 'top 4 mentality' is artificial. How exactly does it differ from a top 5 mentality or a top 3 mentality? What we lack is a winning mentality. When we are up a goal we hunker down and back off content to try to defend for a 1-0 win rather protect that lead by attacking for more goals. When we go down to quality opposition we lose heart and start half-assing it, moping around the pitch rather than playing with some pride.

When Mourinwh*re put on Ba I knew he smelt blood and wanted to get his out of form strikers some confidence at our expense. I really hate that guy, he is a first class pr*ck, but he is ruthless and a winner and he seems to instill that attitude into his players.

I agree and in a previous post said that we have to start winning trophies to establish that winning mentality.

 

[greaves]

Liverpool lost £50m in the last financial year in the hope that they would get back into the CL.
It looks like it has partly paid off, but in a similar season without manu imploding, all that investment would have got them is europa footy. It does not look a good value bet.

Suarez without the antics is worth more than £40m (+£1) and they arguably did not get a realistic bid.
All the same they took a big gamble that the nutter wouldn't react very badly.
Quite possibly he had one eye on the world cup - they were again very lucky.

This is a club that all but went bust trying to compete with the oil clubs last time.
They are deluded and their position is a false due to their lack of European football this season.

Thanks Whitesocks and Goughie. Good points. But could/should we have held onto Bale nonetheless, as well as improve the squad around him?

 

[Indisguise]

Thanks Whitesocks and Goughie. Good points. But could/should we have held onto Bale nonetheless, as well as improve the squad around him?

I'd have held on to Bale this year come what may. Big mistake to have let him go. What have we achieved by selling him on? I see no improvements to have justified letting him go. Liverpool held on to Suarez and backed up Rogers. That's why they're going to get the Champions League spot and we're not.

 

[spursbhoy67]

Someone who has lived the game and been successful at it and can combine football theory with application. Or an anti-Levy, anti-Commoli, anti-AVB, and increasingly an anti-Baldini.

I understand what you are saying and your level of frustration.

However, Levy has done everything he can to make Spurs a success and were it not for the money invested in Man City and Chelsea his period in charge might be viewed differently. He has made mistakes of course, but I still prefer his leadership to that demonstrated by the chairmen at Leeds, Birmingham, QPR, Cardiff, Portsmouth, etc.

Commoli gets a lot of grief for some of his decisions, but does not get credit for his decisions that have worked out. It is the nature of his role. Baldini is getting a lot of criticism right now and could pay for it with his job, but what if all his signings come good next year? I don't remember many on here complaining about the way we spent the money last summer. It hasn't worked out so far, but would two 40m plus signings have been a guaranteed success? Who would they have been? And would they have signed for Spurs?

I have seen most of our managers in the EPL era work and AVB is one of the best on the training ground. He is a succesful manager already and will prove to be again in the future. He had a vision for Spurs, it did not work out, but he will resurface again in European football. Keep in mind that one of our best managers took us down and was shown patience by the old board. He proved to be quite succesful eventually. Could we have shown more patience with AVB? Will we show it with Sherwood?

 

[greaves]

I understand what you are saying and your level of frustration.

However, Levy has done everything he can to make Spurs a success and were it not for the money invested in Man City and Chelsea his period in charge might be viewed differently. He has made mistakes of course, but I still prefer his leadership to that demonstrated by the chairmen at Leeds, Birmingham, QPR, Cardiff, Portsmouth, etc.

Commoli gets a lot of grief for some of his decisions, but does not get credit for his decisions that have worked out. It is the nature of his role. Baldini is getting a lot of criticism right now and could pay for it with his job, but what if all his signings come good next year? I don't remember many on here complaining about the way we spent the money last summer. It hasn't worked out so far, but would two 40m plus signings have been a guaranteed success? Who would they have been? And would they have signed for Spurs?

I have seen most of our managers in the EPL era work and AVB is one of the best on the training ground. He is a succesful manager already and will prove to be again in the future. He had a vision for Spurs, it did not work out, but he will resurface again in European football. Keep in mind that one of our best managers took us down and was shown patience by the old board. He proved to be quite succesful eventually. Could we have shown more patience with AVB? Will we show it with Sherwood?

Nice balanced post. And you are right, few complained at the glut of signings but I think many did not take on board the time they would take to settle. Keeping Bale (as well as buying) would have been a sensible solution, though we do not know how feasible that might actually have been, and it's all terribly easy in hindsight. I do hope, like you, that we have the guts to be patient. Constant change is no good for anyone (and is probably expensive too). I wanted us to stick with HR (I know there as the England thing), then with AVB (long enough for him to change things round) and now I want us to stick with Sherwood. He can grow professionally even if we only get a Rodgers seventh place initially (and I know his experience is different too). I am frankly sick of the next big 'fix' (it is indeed like a demented addiction), and that invariably includes flying in yet another 'big' European name. Questions do have to be asked about the constant managerial carnage too. What does it say about the upper echelons of the club? But fans have a part to play too, in terms of expectation.

 

[Marcus_spur]

In my opinion we need a clean up. There is something known as a clean up guy - usually brought in when a company or org have shit logistics and no economic control. Now this isn't a problem, but the entire footballing side of things is a shambles. I think LVG could be the cleaner. Personally I dont want tim or any other talented manager to take over - what we need is a cleaner who knows what he is doing, a manager who is given real authority to create a footballing platform Tim or whoever can star from. ATM it's just too convoluted.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Don't know why people are praising that interview. What manager worth his salt castigates his players in public? Not many would. More harm will come of this.

If this interview happened to any other team we'd all be laughing at a 'managerial breakdown'.

Go listen to the AVB interview after our trouncing at Man Citeh. Then come back on here and tell us which Manager you have more sympathy with and which one you feel would produce a better effort form the players in the next game.

What other people think about your view of what constitutes "managerial breakdown" depends on which side of the fence you sit on, for me Tim made some valid points and if you didn't see what he meant actually occurring on the pitch during the match then your football knowledge is very limited indeed.

Tim was honest, true and to the bone with his remarks, and i hop it hit home. If his remarks didn't embarrass some of those intended then we really are in deep shite.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

I have no problem with how Tim did his interview yesterday and his tactics worked well in the first half, unfortunately he didn't have a plan b. Before the game, I thought if we conceded, then the floodgates would open because that is the Tottenham way and it is a bitter pill to swallow. The players let Tim and the fans down yesterday, and it was disgusting to see Vertonghen strolling around behaving like he had already left the club. There are no leaders in our team and no spirit.

Please tell me what manager (even The Special One) has a "plan b" to respond to:

Your left back slipping on the wet turf giving the ball away
A dubious penalty being awarded leading to your center half being sent off
An idiot fullback heading the ball back to his keeper from almost the half way line.

"His tactics worked well in the first half" because the cluster fuck of incidents did not happen until the second half. Do you seriously think that we were going to do anything other than lose once Kabul was off the pitch? The Special One has gone 74 games unbeaten at home when they have faced (mostly) sides with eleven playing let alone ten.

Once you can convince me any manager has a "plan b" for those circumstances i will phone Levy myself and ask him to fire Sherwood and hire someone who has a "plan b" for those set of circumstances. Tim's after match interview was nothing about winning the game (which he said himself was lost with the Kabul incident) but about how some the players stopped playing for the shirt, the fans, their pride and their futures.

 

[VoteMe4Prez]

In my opinion we need a clean up. There is something known as a clean up guy - usually brought in when a company or org have shit logistics and no economic control. Now this isn't a problem, but the entire footballing side of things is a shambles. I think LVG could be the cleaner. Personally I dont want tim or any other talented manager to take over - what we need is a cleaner who knows what he is doing, a manager who is given real authority to create a footballing platform Tim or whoever can star from. ATM it's just too convoluted.

LVG is a lot more than a cleaner

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

But a key difference is that they kept Suarez and we sold Bale. I want to know a little more about that disparity. Both players were under contract. How much was this Levy pulling the trigger? What would have happened if we had refused Bale's request? I guess we won't know (till Bale's biography comes out). I know we are we are. But this rankles.... perhaps Suarez was in a less powerful position, given his ban.

The highest bid Liverpool got for Suarez was forty million and one pound (that i could find anyway). Levy got more for Bale than Man Ure did for Ronaldo. No player outside of Man Citeh and Chel$ea would be kept if that kind of bid came in, plus Bale wanted out. No difference to Modric, Carrick, Keane, Berbatov. Levy screwed all of those teams and rightly so. If a player wants out he will go, but the money Liverpool were offered was plain low-ball. You are correct that his ban may have had something to do wit this but he had form, and perhaps too much form for a club to risk big money on.

 

[greaves]

The highest bid Liverpool got for Suarez was forty million and one pound (that i could find anyway). Levy got more for Bale than Man Ure did for Ronaldo. No player outside of Man Citeh and Chel$ea would be kept if that kind of bid came in, plus Bale wanted out. No difference to Modric, Carrick, Keane, Berbatov. Levy screwed all of those teams and rightly so. If a player wants out he will go, but the money Liverpool were offered was plain low-ball. You correct that his ban may have had something to do wit this but he had form, and perhaps too much form for a club to risk big money on.

Thanks Gaz. Yep, I get that. You are right. I do (perhaps foolishly) wonder if we could still have refused Bale's exit. (But then perhaps a promise had been made the season before by DL). Next season - hopefully! - we will genuinely have been seen to have traded Elvis for the Beatles. (I personally cannot wait for Lamela and Eriksen to come good). At present, we have traded Elvis for the Quarrymen. 'She Loves You' is just around the next corner.

 

[kr1978]

The highest bid Liverpool got for Suarez was forty million and one pound (that i could find anyway). Levy got more for Bale than Man Ure did for Ronaldo. No player outside of Man Citeh and Chel$ea would be kept if that kind of bid came in, plus Bale wanted out. No difference to Modric, Carrick, Keane, Berbatov. Levy screwed all of those teams and rightly so. If a player wants out he will go, but the money Liverpool were offered was plain low-ball. You correct that his ban may have had something to do wit this but he had form, and perhaps too much form for a club to risk big money on.

Exactly. Firstly no club bar the top 5 or 6 in the world could have turned that bid down, especially for a player who had made his intentions perfectly clear.

Secondly I wish people would stop comparing us selling bale to Liverpool keeping suarez, if Liverpool had been offered anywhere near what we got for bale then suarez would have been gone as well, instead they had a half hearted bid from arsenal.

Also Bale forced levys hand as much as berbatov and modric did playing the press leaks game, refusing to turn up for training etc- really not sure what we could have done, he is no better than the rest of the players (berbs, modric etc) that get slagged off for doing exactly what he did.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Thanks Gaz. Yep, I get that. You are right. I do (perhaps foolishly) wonder if we could still have refused Bale's exit. (But then perhaps a promise had been made the season before by DL). Next season - hopefully! - we will genuinely have been seen to have traded Elvis for the Beatles. (I personally cannot wait for Lamela and Eriksen to come good). At present, we have traded Elvis for the Quarrymen. 'She Loves You' is just around the next corner.

I think that Bales head was turned initially by his agent, but that his pride and decency made him play like a Lion for the rest of last season. Modric just plain lost his way, and was given bad advice.

Whatever any of us think about Tim, AVB, or the players brought in with the Bale money, few are worthy of a first team place and i would find it hard to feature more than three of them that would make up a team that purposes to be a top four challenge.

Your also doing a disservice to the Quarrymen, we do in fact have Mary Hopkins. Those were the days.........

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Exactly. Firstly no club bar the top 5 or 6 in the world could have turned that bid down, especially for a player who had made his intentions perfectly clear.

Secondly I wish people would stop comparing us selling bale to Liverpool keeping suarez, if Liverpool had been offered anywhere near what we got for bale then suarez would have been gone as well, instead they had a half hearted bid from arsenal.

Also Bale forced levys hand as much as berbatov and modric did playing the press leaks game, refusing to turn up for training etc- really not sure what we could have done, he is no better than the rest of the players (berbs, modric etc) that get slagged off for doing exactly what he did.

Had Liverpool received a bid for Suarez worth merit, then Liverpool could have written off their debt and had thirty odd million to replace him. Interesting to see if RM come looking for him in the Summer.

Just imagine, Ronaldo, Suarez, Bale................

 

[Indisguise]

Had Liverpool received a bid for Suarez worth merit, then Liverpool could have written off their debt and had thirty odd million to replace him. Interesting to see if RM come looking for him in the Summer.

Just imagine, Ronaldo, Suarez, Bale................

I might end up supporting RM at this rate.

Jus' kiddin'!

 

[scottlag10]

Martin Jol said something similar once and was sacked within weeks.

Without a big backer and monster stadium, we are not that competitive.
All we can do is hang around 5th place and pick up any scraps if a big 4 club has a crisis.
It is unfortunate that liverpool have seemingly snapped up the current vacancy left by manu.

No its unfortunate that we pissed away the best part of £100M. We've hung around 4th or 5th punching slightly above our weight over the past few years, lost one of the best players in the world, but I thought, like many others, that the £100M spent properly would get us in the top 4. Hence a lot of peoples disappointment that we appear to have gone backwards , which finishing 6th well off the pace will mean.
So I say again who is going to be held to account for wasting the money?

 

[scottlag10]

The highest bid Liverpool got for Suarez was forty million and one pound (that i could find anyway). Levy got more for Bale than Man Ure did for Ronaldo. No player outside of Man Citeh and Chel$ea would be kept if that kind of bid came in, plus Bale wanted out. No difference to Modric, Carrick, Keane, Berbatov. Levy screwed all of those teams and rightly so. If a player wants out he will go, but the money Liverpool were offered was plain low-ball. You are correct that his ban may have had something to do wit this but he had form, and perhaps too much form for a club to risk big money on.

We will never like, but have got used to the fact that our best players over recent seasons have left for pastures new, higher wages, CL football etc. But what happened this summer has turned out to be the equivalent of selling your rolls Royce and replacing it with seven ford escorts. For not one of those signings to turn out to have a successful season is just typical Spurs.

 

[greaves]

In my opinion we need a clean up. There is something known as a clean up guy - usually brought in when a company or org have shit logistics and no economic control. Now this isn't a problem, but the entire footballing side of things is a shambles. I think LVG could be the cleaner. Personally I dont want tim or any other talented manager to take over - what we need is a cleaner who knows what he is doing, a manager who is given real authority to create a footballing platform Tim or whoever can star from. ATM it's just too convoluted.

Sounds like the guy from Arachnophobia...