Death or Glory? How's it going to go...?

[mil1lion]

I believe the kettles question to the pot is rhetorical

I think the kettle is racist.

 

[lukespurs7]

Big six clubs in terms of quality of squad I would rank as:

City
Chelsea
Utd
Spurs
Arsenal
Liverpool

Here are the Chairman of the big six clubs in order of getting the most bang for their buck:

1. Levy
2. Arsenal consortium
3. Mansour
4. Glazers
5. FSG
6. Roman

Here are the owners in terms of simply bang:

1. Mansour
2. Abramovich
3. Glazers
4. Arsenal consortium
5. FSG
6. Enic

Here are the managers in terms of ability to get something out of their match-day squad:

1. SAF
2. Wenger
3. Rodgers
4. Redknapp
5. Mancini
6. Di Matteo

Here are the managers in terms of team-building, and balancing the needs on match-day with squad development:

1. SAF
2. Wenger
3. Rodgers
4. Reknapp
5. Mancini
6. Di Matteo

Looking at the above lists things look fairly rosy.

On the plus side we've got Levy, and really we should link him to the relative quality of our squad, as it's down to him that we've assembled the side we have.

But if you consider that to develop we we can't rely on revenue, but on team-building and player trading, then we start to see that we're in trouble on a number of fronts. In terms of manager, we look to be fourth, but above us on the list are the three other clubs who similarly don't have unlimited resources. If we assume that Chelsea and City are most years going to be able to buy there way to success, then all of a sudden we're at the bottom of the pile.

It's our misfortune that being very good is some departments is not good enough, we have to be excellent. To get to the level where we want to be we need an Arsene Wenger, or a SAF, and to make matters really difficult we need to pick them up (as Utd and Arsenal did) at a stage in their career where they're not massively proven, but have shown strong signs of ability.

The depressing thing is that Rodgers was by far the most promising of the candidates out there. But he's just strengthened our biggest rival below the four ever-present CL clubs. Of the other potential candidates there's none that stands out. Perhaps one will be worth a risk, but it would be a massive risk. Martinez? I'm really not convinced by Wigan whatsoever. AVB, huge question marks over his decision making under pressure at Chelsea. No one else.

But sticking with the current set-up means standing still. We know that the difference between us and Arsenal last year was the coach, as our team was stronger than their's. We know also that our team is stronger than Liverpool, but the real reason we were so far ahead was the difference in quality between our coach and their's. Now the quality gap between their coach and ours is the other way around. In terms of squad, ours is only going to get weaker this summer, even if we freshen up some personnel and keep the star names, the quality of coaching harms them. Modric, Bale, Sandro, VdV, Defoe, and BAE, have imo gone backwards in the last 12 months, in particular for the likes of Modric, Bale, BAE, and VDV they're picking up bad habits. Their work ethic has steadily deteriorated as they've become established first-teamers. Their mentality is not ideal. And their learning has stagnated.

My prediction for next season is 6th to 10th. But I can't see how to change anything from where we are without making the situation worse, and if we end up at the bottom end of that prediction range it's going to be hard to turn the slide around. I think we've all just got to hope that another Brendan Rodgers type announces himself on the scene over the next 12 months.

Do explain how you worked that one out?

 

[sloth]

Do explain how you worked that one out?

He did take West Brom to second in the Championship in his first season with them. But he hardly set the world alight with them once in the PL and was probably the correct decision to sack him when they did. At Chelsea his time's been too short, but I haven't been impressed with the way they played under him, other than a couple of gutsy rear-guard performances, which in my opinion were ultimately flukey. They did do well against us in the Cup I suppose, but he set them out exactly the way everyone knew he would, we knew their strengths, and their weaknesses before hand, we even knew how to play against them... which was what was so baffling about how we set out... well not baffling, frustratingly predictable... for a man who doesn't do tactics, he doesn't half now how to use them to fuck things up

Anyway, Di Matteo is currently over-rated, perhaps he'll show himself next season to be better than Harry, but for now he's definitely bottom of the list for me.

 

[sloth]

Do explain how you worked that one out?

So what's your view?

 

[mil1lion]

Di Matteo has the dressing room at the moment which is crucial for any manager. The players respond to him and they've been a success because of it. However when things start going bad it will be interesting to see if the players stick by him. One of the disadvantages of a young manager like Di Matteo is that the players can use that lack of experience as ammo.

At present it seems to me that he is lacking in the tactical department in a big way but the players are playing out of their skin for him. It's not pretty to watch, but then Chelsea haven't been pretty to watch since they had the likes of Zola and co in attack. This was clear for all to see in the Champions League games where they were outplayed yet dug deep and threw bodies behind the ball.

I don't think they have necessarily been lucky because they have earned that with their gritty performances (clearances off the line and blocks at crucial moments). What was evident in the Champions League was, while they got the rub of the green at times, they showed some of the most commited last ditch defending i've seen. This style of play can only get them so far though.

 

[lukespurs7]

He did take West Brom to second in the Championship in his first season with them. But he hardly set the world alight with them once in the PL and was probably the correct decision to sack him when they did. At Chelsea his time's been too short, but I haven't been impressed with the way they played under him, other than a couple of gutsy rear-guard performances, which in my opinion were ultimately flukey. They did do well against us in the Cup I suppose, but he set them out exactly the way everyone knew he would, we knew their strengths, and their weaknesses before hand, we even knew how to play against them... which was what was so baffling about how we set out... well not baffling, frustratingly predictable... for a man who doesn't do tactics, he doesn't half now how to use them to fuck things up

Anyway, Di Matteo is currently over-rated, perhaps he'll show himself next season to be better than Harry, but for now he's definitely bottom of the list for me.

I think turning a team around from being utter shite all season and managing victories over ourselves and Liverpool in the FA cup as well as Napoli, Barca and Bayern in the Champions League should earn him a hell of a lot of credit and no way is that just down to the players playing out of their skins for him. I fucking hate the fact Chelsea won anything and you are correct it was not pretty but for that reason it actually showed that he is good tactically because otherwise they'd have been too open and been torn apart, with the players and style of team he had at his disposal he did very well.
Also interesting you have Rogers ahead of Redknapp but each to their own, not sure he's proved it as much as Harry either.

I would have Rogers 6th even though I do rate him, Redknapp 5th and Di Matteo 4th Mancini 3rd Wenger 2nd and SAF 1st.

By the way in terms of your first long post I do actually agree with alot of what you have written.

 

[sloth]

I think turning a team around from being utter shite all season and managing victories over ourselves and Liverpool in the FA cup as well as Napoli, Barca and Bayern in the Champions League should earn him a hell of a lot of credit and no way is that just down to the players playing out of their skins for him. I fucking hate the fact Chelsea won anything and you are correct it was not pretty but for that reason it actually showed that he is good tactically because otherwise they'd have been too open and been torn apart, with the players and style of team he had at his disposal he did very well.
Also interesting you have Rogers ahead of Redknapp but each to their own, not sure he's proved it as much as Harry either.

I would have Rogers 6th even though I do rate him, Redknapp 5th and Di Matteo 4th Mancini 3rd Wenger 2nd and SAF 1st.

By the way in terms of your first long post I do actually agree with alot of what you have written.

I think it's far too small a data-set to come to a conclusion on. If you took any ten games or so out of Harry's career with us, you could make a case for him being the greatest manager ever, a pile of shit, or merely average. For me, people try and read far too much, too often, into bugger all.

 

[shelfmonkey]

To get the ball rolling. No surprises from me, I think we're in the shit. I pretty much think we're on the slide, I hope we can arrest it, but whereas end of August last year I was predicting 3rd, if I had to predict now it would be sixth. And after that it's simply a matter of economics and momentum.

I have to agree with you, sadly. Levy just doesn't know how to spot a manager!

 

[StartingPrice]

I have to agree with you, sadly. Levy just doesn't know how to spot a manager!

I think you are right.
The Man in the Raincoat (coulda been good, but never really accepted, and probably got rid of too soon, after he shouldn't have been hired).
GHodd - well, we can excuse him that one
I think Santini was his choice = WTF
Jol was Arnesen's nominee.
Ramos was Comolli's
He admired 'Arry from afar = obviously far enough for him to not spot the tick

Bit of a Rogue's Gallery, ain't it!

 

[Mullers]

I think we have a limited amount of time left before we go through a transitional period. The first team takes care of itself but the squad is not good enough. Clearing players out is not so difficult but bringing the right players in is difficult. Now we find ourselves in a position where we have to bring a lot of players in over a short space of time, when we should have players over the past two seasons. We have missed a big, big opportunity to qualify for the CL over consecutive seasons. I lost all confidence in Redknapp after that Villa game and I don't think he can go that extra mile to turn us from also rans to winners. Our best hope is Chelsea taking time for the new players to gel Arsenal losing Van Persie, not replacing him and have a very bad run of form like last season.

 

[StartingPrice]

I think we have a limited amount of time left before we go through a transitional period. The first team takes care of itself but the squad is not good enough. Clearing players out is not so difficult but bringing the right players in is difficult. Now we find ourselves in a position where we have to bring a lot of players in over a short space of time, when we should have players over the past two seasons. We have missed a big, big opportunity to qualify for the CL over consecutive seasons. I lost all confidence in Redknapp after that Villa game and I don't think he can go that extra mile to turn us from also rans to winners. Our best hope is Chelsea taking time for the new players to gel Arsenal losing Van Persie, not replacing him and have a very bad run of form like last season.

Pretty much.
We are so close that it makes it even more ironic that there is a very good chance we will now lose Modric.
We have been a bit unlucky - who'd a thought an absolutely dog-sheeeeeeee-ite Chelsea team would somehow win the CL (or, more pertinently, a pretty decent Bayern Munich side would somehow contrive to throw the CL away. SO, really, despite going AWOL due to England-Gate, Redknapp did get us a CL place for the 2nd time in 3 years. That type of also-ran-ness I can just about live with.

But I agree, I not convinced that he can take us over that incredibly fine line. And, unless Levy is going to offer him a new contract, I think we will be treading water this season. I lost all confidence after the QPR game - the Villa game just had an air of inevitibility about it.