Dele Alli at Everton

[chelmyid]

Hmmmmmm ?

I would imagine those two posts are pretty common for a good few on here!!

Change the argument to suit the agenda at a given point in time!
Infact that probably sums up the world we currently live in.

no one has the balls to stick to their own opinion!

 

[Tucker]

I would imagine those two posts are pretty common for a good few on here!!

Change the argument to suit the agenda at a given point in time!
Infact that probably sums up the world we currently live in.

no one has the balls to stick to their own opinion!

It’s not so much that people should stick to their opinion. There’s nothing wrong with changing your mind about a player, it’s just when someone is clearly only doing it just to spout agenda driven nonsense that it looks silly.

 

[SuperPav10]

He will be to us what Salah and De Bruyne were to Chelsea. There’s also a common denominator here too.

A player that good, does not peak and become rubbish at 23

Big mistake selling him......HUGE

Judging from the interviews that are out there (on Salah, KDB), the other common denominator seems to be players that weren't willing to fight for their place.

Ndombele and GLC are good examples of players who decided to fight. I'm sure if Dele was doing the same in training, he would've been given more opportunities. It looks like he (or his people) have gone down the Pogba/victim/bullying route -- and that scenario shows that the manager needs to be backed. Above all else.

 

[dude573]

I don't think the Salah/De Bruyne comparisons are entirely accurate to Dele.

Both Salah and De Bruyne were young players signed from foreign clubs and untested in the league. Dele has flourished in the league, although faced a dramatic decline in form due to his positional lack of flexibility and the loss of Eriksen.

I think Dele's situation is more comparable to people like Paul Pogba or Luke Shaw. Jose signalled these players out criticizing them in the media despite them being good players. He blamed them when things went wrong to protect the rest of his team.

Despite Dele having a decent game against Stoke, Jose called him out on his flick which 'cost us a goal.' If you remember way earlier in the season, Dele was also hooked off at half time against Everton. Even against Marine, where Dele was our best creator, he was still subbed off - a decision made even more bizarre when he didn't play against Fulham or even make the squad against Sheffield United.

Jose wants a scapegoat - he always has. It stops everyone from criticizing the performances of other players or even Jose himself. He wanted it to be Ndombele, but I think Levy's refusal to sell him and Tanguy's pure ability made him change his mind . Now unfortunately his scapegoat is Dele.

 

[chelmyid]

It’s not so much that people should stick to their opinion. There’s nothing wrong with changing your mind about a player, it’s just when someone is clearly only doing it just to spout agenda driven nonsense that it looks silly.

Second sentence!

 

[yido_number1]

I flip flop on Dele all the time at the moment. If we play bad I get this hankering to see him back in the team and when we play good I can understand why he's not in there. Whatever happens for the best of his career he needs to play. If JM isn't going to play him he's too expensive an asset to have sat in the stands not contributing.

 

[PLTuck]

I feel that if we aren't going to play him, we should allow him to go and play regularly for 18 months. By then we'll likely have the famed Jose meltdown, and he can come back with Poch to finish what they started together.

That's the eternal optimist in me talking.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Oh the irony if Jose’s reason for leaving Dele out completely yesterday had anything to do with a passive aggressive Instagram post...

 

[fridgemagnet]

I don't think the Salah/De Bruyne comparisons are entirely accurate to Dele.

Both Salah and De Bruyne were young players signed from foreign clubs and untested in the league. Dele has flourished in the league, although faced a dramatic decline in form due to his positional lack of flexibility and the loss of Eriksen.

I think Dele's situation is more comparable to people like Paul Pogba or Luke Shaw. Jose signalled these players out criticizing them in the media despite them being good players. He blamed them when things went wrong to protect the rest of his team.

Despite Dele having a decent game against Stoke, Jose called him out on his flick which 'cost us a goal.' If you remember way earlier in the season, Dele was also hooked off at half time against Everton. Even against Marine, where Dele was our best creator, he was still subbed off - a decision made even more bizarre when he didn't play against Fulham or even make the squad against Sheffield United.

Jose wants a scapegoat - he always has. It stops everyone from criticizing the performances of other players or even Jose himself. He wanted it to be Ndombele, but I think Levy's refusal to sell him and Tanguy's pure ability made him change his mind . Now unfortunately his scapegoat is Dele.

I think he got hooked at Marine for the same thing as he was criticised for against Stoke. IIRC Dele was pulling the strings and grabbing the game by the neck (after about the first 10 mins) then towards the end of the half he tried a flick on the halfway line which failed and resulted in Marine through for a chance at goal. I’m 90 percent certain it was Dele so it’s possible that Jose was making a point again as maybe it’s not sinking in.
I’ll apologise if it wasn’t Dele but it could explain why he didn’t make the bench again.

 

[The Opinionated Lurker]

I think Dele just has a far lower ceiling than once thought. These things happen, just a shame it took us almost running down his value entirely before the idea of selling was entertained

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Fabrizio Romano on Dele & PSG latest...

 

[Stamford]

Hmmmmmm ?

Just shows how deep the anti-Jose agenda goes

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

View attachment 80967
Fabrizio Romano on Dele & PSG latest...

Levy must be mad about the buy option, he loves a good penny and Dele is a prized asset but if he plays well and Poch wants him to stay he can rinse the Qatari money we need for Skiniar and Sabitzer off them.

 

[sausage]

Judging from the interviews that are out there (on Salah, KDB), the other common denominator seems to be players that weren't willing to fight for their place.

Ndombele and GLC are good examples of players who decided to fight. I'm sure if Dele was doing the same in training, he would've been given more opportunities. It looks like he (or his people) have gone down the Pogba/victim/bullying route -- and that scenario shows that the manager needs to be backed. Above all else.

I do wonder if United wish they've never bought Pogba. He never seems to have done anything of particular note - just has the odd run of form. At least to my notice. He kicks off and then they let him brood for a bit while Raiola tells everyone he's desperate to leave, then comes back in the team.

Dele hasn't got the bad attitude of Pogba, but there are a lot of similarities in how this is playing out. Mourinho is only interested in players who are as driven as he is, and so he'll try and motivate them and some of them just see it as an affront and dig their heels in.

 

[rossdapep]

I think Dele just has a far lower ceiling than once thought. These things happen, just a shame it took us almost running down his value entirely before the idea of selling was entertained

It's possible.

I think if you look back to 'peak-Dele' he was part of a very stable team with multiple attacking players who'd be able to influence/win a game. Him, Kane, Eriksen & Sonny were all capable of scoring and effecting games greatly.

We would also often win the ball back in good situations in which either the defence were inbalanced or high up the pitch. This suited Dele because he is instinctive and can do things to great effect when he doesn't have tons of time. We also often camped ourselves in the opposition's half which allowed Dele to float about and find pockets where he could effect the game.

However, I don't think Dele was ever a player who you could turn to to help you regain control or influence the pattern of play - he'd largely frustrate because he'd still be trying flicks rather than look to get on the ball and wrestle control back - and his best moments were always some instinctive in the final third. Generally if we played poorly it was someone like Dembele, Eriksen or Kane who would help kick us back into life by trying to use possession better.

When Kane & Son were injured and Eriksen was with one foot out of the door, the onus was on Dele to step out from the shadows and influence the others. I think this is when Jose realised that Dele isn't a player you can look to for influence and changing the complexion of a game - if the game is getting away from you Dele isn't the one to show maturity and composure. This is where he simply hasn't evolved, he's still showing too many 'raw' abilities/behaviours.

I think the Everton game was almost like a 'final straw'. A lot of players had missed pre-season and Dele should have been fresh/raring to go, yet he turned in another indifferent performance and failed to have an impact on the game. Jose probably realised at that point that he's not growing or getting the message.

 

[Cochise]

Or perhaps he was subbed in order to give senior minutes to youth players?

 

[Martinhotspur]

We probably held on to Eriksen and now Alli to long. If you look at Leicester they sell their players at a premium reinvest the money and seem to be no worse off. Of course there would have been uproar if we did sell them. We perceive ourselves as a big club but we probably need to sell a big player to freshen up the squad every couple of years.

 

[dtxspurs]

Make it a loan with option to buy for 50mil.

 

[thisismyback]

I don't think the Salah/De Bruyne comparisons are entirely accurate to Dele.

Both Salah and De Bruyne were young players signed from foreign clubs and untested in the league. Dele has flourished in the league, although faced a dramatic decline in form due to his positional lack of flexibility and the loss of Eriksen.

I think Dele's situation is more comparable to people like Paul Pogba or Luke Shaw. Jose signalled these players out criticizing them in the media despite them being good players. He blamed them when things went wrong to protect the rest of his team.

Despite Dele having a decent game against Stoke, Jose called him out on his flick which 'cost us a goal.' If you remember way earlier in the season, Dele was also hooked off at half time against Everton. Even against Marine, where Dele was our best creator, he was still subbed off - a decision made even more bizarre when he didn't play against Fulham or even make the squad against Sheffield United.

Jose wants a scapegoat - he always has. It stops everyone from criticizing the performances of other players or even Jose himself. He wanted it to be Ndombele, but I think Levy's refusal to sell him and Tanguy's pure ability made him change his mind . Now unfortunately his scapegoat is Dele.

Agree that Salah and KDB are poor examples of what is happening here and that Pogba and Shaw are better examples.

Disagree with everything else. It has little to do with Jose wanting a scapegoat. It's about demanding everything from the team as a whole and the 22+ individuals that make up the team. Everyone has a role to play, some play a larger role. Some individuals respond, Ndombele, and others don't, Pogba, Shaw and Dele.

I don't think Jose has been proven wrong with his assessments of those four players.

Based on his one-on-one meeting with Dele in AoN, it's pretty clear what Jose expects from the player and how high he believes his potential is. He leaned heavily on Dele from the start. Jose coveted him - "Sir Alex said buy Dele", he challenged him - "are you Dele or Dele's brother", he praised him - "that goal was because of you Dele" (following his sliding effort to keep the ball in play against West Ham leading to the Son goal) and he turned to him to replace Kane and Son but as Jose implemented his system, his trust in Dele faded.

It's clear by Jose's comments that he doesn't believe Dele is giving his all and in turn wasting his potential. I'm also 100% positive that Jose would love for Dele to turn it around, just like Ndombele. Jose isn't pushing him because he's a big meanie, he's trying to push every button so that Dele sees what Dele can be.

Dele just needs to take ownership for his own actions.

 

[fridgemagnet]

I've probably said this before but IMHO a season loan abroad would benefit everyone, I think Dele needs to go somewhere that gets him drilled in the tactical and technical side of his game, he needs to mature and get out of his comfort zone not just as a footballer but as a person. He's only 24 but comes across as less mature than that, his rise through football was pretty quick and I think a year of new surroundings would do him and Spurs good in the long run.

My reasons against it are should we get unlucky with a Covid situation, the PL may postpone our fixtures but I'm not sure the other competitions will be so lenient plus Jose seems like he'd play the fixture (if only to make a point to the PL) if we were able to name a 14 man squad.

Jose couldn't have spelt it out much clearer what Dele has to do than he did in his praise for Tanguy at the weekend, if Dele isn't listening then sadly he needs to move on much as I'd hate to see it but a HG international shouldn't be getting sold on the cheap.