Does the Dier-Wanyama partnership work?

[Basil Brush]

Playing 2 DMs in these kinda games is the worst thing you can do. We should be defending thru attack, not inviting pressure because we cant get the ball to our attacking outlets.

Playing 2 dms doesnt always make you more defensively sound, it makes you negative and caused a huge problem going forward.

Attack is the best form of defence.

Have to respectfully disagree.

Dier is a good passer of the ball and not sure what Waynama is like in that aspect yet but he is a beast.

If you have those 2 in front of our back 4, then we can expect the front 3 to do their job (whoever that is).

I think that is why we won so easily against Stoke. We frustrated them early and then made our changes and took advantage.

 

[stevensthfc]

Dier - Alli

I don't see Sissoko as a central midfielder atm but that could change once Poch works his magic.

 

[CammyCOYS]

Are there any problems playing them together in the away champions league games or away against the other teams in the big 6?

Reminds me of AC Milan away with Sandro & Palacios. What an evening that was!

 

[yankspurs]

Defensively great, only 2 goals conceded and they were set pieces. Think they're better for when closing out a game or playing defensively against an attacking side.

Yet it seems the back 4 and hugo/vorm have had to do alot more cleaning up of mistakes so far this season.

Dier, Winks or Dier, Alli should be the partnership in Dembele's absence. I really want Winks to get much more time than he's been this season. He really impressed me in pre season.

 

[agrdavidsfan]

Not at all for me,

weirdly when wanyama went off vs stoke dier looked a better player suddenly.

Then when Dier went off vs palace i think it was Wanyama looked a better player

i think its a case of they both are unsure what they are meant to do as the other is doing it.

 

[yido_number1]

It's a long season and certain games will dictate. Dier and Dembele will be first choice but I imagine we will see lots of different combinations before the season ends. Dier and Wanyama with Dembele in the forward 3 would be rock solid for a game like Chavski or Arse.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Playing 2 DMs in these kinda games is the worst thing you can do. We should be defending thru attack, not inviting pressure because we cant get the ball to our attacking outlets.

Playing 2 dms doesnt always make you more defensively sound, it makes you negative and caused a huge problem going forward.

Attack is the best form of defence.

I am not sure this is accurate - through 4 games we have conceded 2 goals - a Penalty and a fluke free kick. No goals in the run of play. Defensively, we really cant do much better than that.

Now, attacking wise, it would be helpful to have a CM who can get the ball to the AMs without losing possession. But, we will lose a bit of our defensive edge when we bring in Dembele and/or play someone else in the pivot. The hope is the improved attacking play more than offsets for the dip in defensive play. With Dembele, he is also a strong defender, so we don't lose much defensively, but he is limited on the attack. With Alli, its the opposite, he is not as strong defensively, but presents many more options in attack.

 

[Singaspur]

Dier-Wanyama may turn out to be a title winning CM2. They haven't had enough games together to come to a final opinion. But from what I've seen, it doesn't look good! While we may not have conceded many, the whole team looked clunky - not saying it was completely down to them - and NOT defensively solid.

So for me, in the absence of Dembele, default starting 2 would be one of Dier/Wanyama and Alli. Use subs depending on game situation.

 

[Jamturk]

I wouldn't call 8 out of 12 points for a virginal partnership a failure.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

Dier is the better footballer, although Wanyama is a decent player, but he can be a little rash and on Saturday he was a red card waiting to happen.

 

[StartingPrice]

I think any new partnership takes time to gel and will reserve judgement until a later date.

I agree.

That said, I think we looked more fluid offensively after he went off at Stoke.

True, but you could argue that the Dier/Wanyama partnership earned us the right to play before the change.

 

[StartingPrice]

Unbeaten with them as a pair so far. Might not be great to watch ATM,

Exactly.

What is important, IMHO, is that it is an option to have. We will now have the Moose back (yes, I know the thread title was about while he is excluded). And we have signed Sissoko. Neither of these was true for the first three games (and the fourth up to a point - Sissoko was available, but not up to speed and no work done on him), so it was either pairing them together or one of them with Winks/Onomah. But now we have permutations of Dier and Dembélé, Dier and Sissoko, Wanyama and Dembélé, Wanyama and Sissoko, Dier and Wanyama, and Dembélé and Sissoko. And they are options that cover us for injury or suspension, and a variety of different oppositions. Not to mention any one of the four alongside Winks or Onomah. Who knows, we could even play the semi-mythical 4-3-3.

And as of so far, with quite a difficult start, we have 5 more points than at this stage last season, playing only our most defensive option.

but this is the sort of stat that will be brought up when the post season finger pointing starts

Why will there be post season finger pointing when we will have won the league?

 

[Shadydan]

Haven't let in a goal from open at yet have we? Something is clearly working alright going forward the balance is a little off.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

I think it works sufficiently, and would be intrigued to see it develop further. A lot is said about how "negative two DMs" is, but don't forget one of the two DMs nicked 3 points for us already this season.

 

[brb627]

I think it works sufficiently, and would be intrigued to see it develop further. A lot is said about how "negative two DMs" is, but don't forget one of the two DMs nicked 3 points for us already this season.

Hi everyone, don't post much but love the forum.

I like both Wanyama and Dier, but am firmly in the camp that they are not compatible together. Watching the Stoke game, I really noticed how often we bypassed the midfield in order to get the ball to the front 3 before Wanyama was subbed off. I know that under Poch that is often part of the strategy, and that balls directly from the defense into the front 3 are part of what makes our transitions into attack quicker and thus our whole attack more effective. However, with both Wanyama and Dier I believe we struggle to generate any transition through the middle--as neither player's strength is showing for the ball and carrying it/passing it forward (the exact role that I think we all would agree makes Dembele so important). When we tried to play through the midfield, the ball would often be passed back or an attempted pass forward would fail to find the front three. While Dier is a good passer, and a better one than Wanyama imo, that is still not his specialty (I think some of his best passes, for whatever reason, are finding the last man and he is actually a very good crosser--rather than being adept at transitioning from defense to attack).

While our defensive stats are good on paper, I also agree with the poster above who said that playing both DMs does not necessarily make our defense better, in that it invites pressure. Looking outside of our goals conceded numbers, Everton, Liverpool and Stoke first half have all had some real attacking chances. I think our struggles moving the ball forward without bypassing the midfield, and further at times turning the ball over in bad areas on the pitch due to the lack of a natural mover/receiver/passer(or in Dembele's case dribbler) from the middle into the front 3 has actually made things harder for the defense.

In short, I believe we have looked better on both sides of the ball without the Dier/Wanyama pairing. And again, I will emphasize that none of this is meant to be a slight to the individuals who can both do a real job.

 

[idontgetit]

No it makes our defense and offence worse

 

[idontgetit]

Hi everyone, don't post much but love the forum.

I like both Wanyama and Dier, but am firmly in the camp that they are not compatible together. Watching the Stoke game, I really noticed how often we bypassed the midfield in order to get the ball to the front 3 before Wanyama was subbed off. I know that under Poch that is often part of the strategy, and that balls directly from the defense into the front 3 are part of what makes our transitions into attack quicker and thus our whole attack more effective. However, with both Wanyama and Dier I believe we struggle to generate any transition through the middle--as neither player's strength is showing for the ball and carrying it/passing it forward (the exact role that I think we all would agree makes Dembele so important). When we tried to play through the midfield, the ball would often be passed back or an attempted pass forward would fail to find the front three. While Dier is a good passer, and a better one than Wanyama imo, that is still not his specialty (I think some of his best passes, for whatever reason, are finding the last man and he is actually a very good crosser--rather than being adept at transitioning from defense to attack).

While our defensive stats are good on paper, I also agree with the poster above who said that playing both DMs does not necessarily make our defense better, in that it invites pressure. Looking outside of our goals conceded numbers, Everton, Liverpool and Stoke first half have all had some real attacking chances. I think our struggles moving the ball forward without bypassing the midfield, and further at times turning the ball over in bad areas on the pitch due to the lack of a natural mover/receiver/passer(or in Dembele's case dribbler) from the middle into the front 3 has actually made things harder for the defense.

In short, I believe we have looked better on both sides of the ball without the Dier/Wanyama pairing. And again, I will emphasize that none of this is meant to be a slight to the individuals who can both do a real job.

Exactly this. To add to the defensive thing, another way it makes it worse is that neither Dier or Wanyama settle in to a natural position to screen the back four, leaving loads of space behind and infront of them for opposition forwards to pick up space in and play balls through. Also our defence is about defending from the front with the press and the press doesn't work properly with two DM's. The forwards press and it just opens up space behind them.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

No, it's offensive mogodon and defensively not exactly been fort knox either.

Why no Wanyama/Winks option ?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Hi everyone, don't post much but love the forum.

I like both Wanyama and Dier, but am firmly in the camp that they are not compatible together. Watching the Stoke game, I really noticed how often we bypassed the midfield in order to get the ball to the front 3 before Wanyama was subbed off. I know that under Poch that is often part of the strategy, and that balls directly from the defense into the front 3 are part of what makes our transitions into attack quicker and thus our whole attack more effective. However, with both Wanyama and Dier I believe we struggle to generate any transition through the middle--as neither player's strength is showing for the ball and carrying it/passing it forward (the exact role that I think we all would agree makes Dembele so important). When we tried to play through the midfield, the ball would often be passed back or an attempted pass forward would fail to find the front three. While Dier is a good passer, and a better one than Wanyama imo, that is still not his specialty (I think some of his best passes, for whatever reason, are finding the last man and he is actually a very good crosser--rather than being adept at transitioning from defense to attack).

While our defensive stats are good on paper, I also agree with the poster above who said that playing both DMs does not necessarily make our defense better, in that it invites pressure. Looking outside of our goals conceded numbers, Everton, Liverpool and Stoke first half have all had some real attacking chances. I think our struggles moving the ball forward without bypassing the midfield, and further at times turning the ball over in bad areas on the pitch due to the lack of a natural mover/receiver/passer(or in Dembele's case dribbler) from the middle into the front 3 has actually made things harder for the defense.

In short, I believe we have looked better on both sides of the ball without the Dier/Wanyama pairing. And again, I will emphasize that none of this is meant to be a slight to the individuals who can both do a real job.

Good post fella.

 

[CheeseGromit]

Oh dear Why so much negativity already Was Rome built in a day ?

First, it is now very much a squad game. Measuring our success after a few games into the new season and against opposition that includes Palace and Stoke ( which we won both) is bit premature.

I believe we will see various combinations revolving around Dier / Dembele / Wanyama to be seen through the season

i also can remember vividly those last few games at the end of last season when there was a lot missing in the character of the players. We should have without any doubt finished second

Several of the partnerships have not even been tried and yet considered better options