Enduring Another Spurs Away Day

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Apr 10, 2006
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978
#21
Nothing like a passionate post to get the punters at it eh? I understand the frustration but believe we are far better in you are giving us credit for. personally I feel we are very close to Liverpool and with a bit of the luck we deserved from those games could have won both. So the line is fine indeed between victory and defeat or delight and frustration.

Anyway, I want to answer a number of points you have made. Firstly, feeling sorry for Murphy. Why? he has failed to put himself in the position where he commands a starting spot in his chosen position like lennin has managed. He is sadly for him not a player who should get a starting spot and will probably be playing elsewhere next season as he hasn't the quality we need.

Huddlestone was forced to play many first time balls on a difficult pitch as it was very wet and getting cut up. It was also very windy. If you don't recognise this a being difficult to play in then you have never played. Secondly, Cardiff went out of there way to shut him down with one or two men very quickly as he is capable of killing teams with his passing when he gets a little space. This tactic was evident through out the game and also meant Cardiff were effectively trying to stop us winning rather than trying to win the game themselves. Infact most of their chances came from mistakes across the park as we tried to pass the ball. Many teams don't even try a passing game and play long all then time eg Bolton, Everton, Watford, Sheffield United to name a few. So credit Spurs for trying to play the game and criticise for the occasional poor choice of pass when it should have gone long and hopeful.

Malbranque has a mixed game again due to the conditions and negative tactics of Cardiff but I would agree that Tainio was non-existent on the whole.

Strangely you have pointed out mistakes and faults of the midfield and our fragile defence but ignored the fact that the real villans were infact Defoe and Berbatov. Why? They both missed real chances to win the game and failed to cause enough worries for the cardiff back four as physically they were boys against men.

It is not acceptable to fault a left back for a mistake and then ignore a glaring miss like that of Defoe(s'). The defenders helped keep a clear sheet and on occasions provided our best moments although due to conditions, lack of experience and a desire to try to play football made a couple of mistakes. However, they still kept a clean sheet. Our forwards are in danger of becoming goodtime players. In otherwords they only play when the going i.e. the game is going our way at home rather than doing what many other teams do and forcing the issue when the going is difficult. There is where our problems lie not with an average midfield (yesterdays line up) or a so-called fragile defence.

We are still in the draw and atleast one so-called top four team is not. We have a home replay and then a good home draw again if we get through. This is only because we faced and survive a real banana skin game in a horrible little pit of a ground with some very passionate (I am being polite here) home fans. A couple of years ago (or last year) we would have rolled over and been better. This is what is making us get closer to the four other teams that are temporarily keeping our league position warm for us. They have been surviving games like this for years.

So on the whole whilst I would accept that we look for much more from Spurs and should expect it these days. A goal-less FA cup draw on a horrible evening in a horrible ground doesn't warrant so much criticism as we are moving forward still.
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
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304
#22
Makes me angry that people can blame conditions, away fans, muddy pitch, cold tea at half time, what a load of bollox! When are we going to stop making stupid excuses for pathetic tactics and performances?
Any of the 'top four' would have won with a reserve side out, when were at that level then we will have arrived, till then we are responsable for the personel we have and who is on the pitch, if we havnt got cover for lennon then thats our fault, if we have to play Murphy left wing then thats our fault.
I was workin so didnt watch the game live but on MOTD Cardiff won by 16 highlights to 5.
At least we didnt lose and theres a home tie v Southend or Barnsley to play for.

Is this the same top four that includes Arsenal, a team who notoriously hate mixing it? Or Liverpool, a team with an away record just about comparable to us? Or Man U who proved against Southend getting a win against a Championship side with your first team isn't exactly a walk in the park?
 

Top_Boy

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Jan 8, 2006
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Thread starter #23
Some of you may think that the original post was a little OTT but how many times have we had to endure this type of away performance. <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Cardiff</st1:City></st1:place>’s record against other Championship sides at home was certainly good at the start of the season but not now and we’re supposed to be a top Premiership side.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p> </o:p>
Yes we looked better once Lennon came on but how long did we have to wait for this and isn’t there anyone in the entire Spurs squad who can play as a winger? I can’t think of any of our central midfielders who have been able to perform this role with the possible exception of Jenas and he’s not exactly flavour of the month with most Spurs supporters probably because he is asked to play out of position. To be honest Jol is not the greatest strategist and there were times yesterday when I thought he was waiting to go a goal down before he made a change. How’s that for negative tactics?
<o:p> </o:p>
The sale and loan of Messrs Reid and Routledge respectively with absolutely no backup was obviously a massive mistake and one that we have to correct. I personally would have signed Boa Morte (a proven and speedy left sided player). Failing that Richardson who at least Man U are saying is surplus to requirements would fit the bill. Forget about Downing and Pedersen it just ain’t gonna happen
 

mossjo

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Dec 6, 2006
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#24
Good original article and followup. In response to JuanRebeide point about the forwards I would say that while Defoe and Berbatov didn't have the greatest of games yesterday there is no doubt that we would have created a lot more chances if we'd had some pace in midfield and an ability to string more than two passes together. We know what the problems are with the team. These aren't going to disappear with wishful thinking or excuses about the crowd, ground , time of the month etc. etc.
 

RBlanch

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Apr 22, 2004
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#25
I was there and I think your criticism of Jol is harsh - especially as the conditions were so appalling. But the performance was certainly poor, and there are a number of things to take away from the game.

One is that the defence looks disorganised and lacks confidence without King. Davenport may have ability, but he gets nervous and makes silly decisions - his clearances repeatedly lacked conviction and some of his decision-making was horrible to watch. His nervousness spread to Dawson, who looks a shadow of his normal self without King, and even to Robinson and Chimbonda, our most consistent player this season.

Lee was as dithery as ever. Even Cardiff knew the way to stop Spurs - give Lee lots of space to trick us into passing to him. The attack's going nowhere once he's on the ball. Defensively, his positioning was repeatedly suspect, and I think that too was partly down to Ledley's absence.

As for the midfield - I thought individually they did OK, but we didn't have the right personnel for the game. That's not entirely Jol's fault - Lennon wasn't fit for 90 minutes, Zokora isn't performing and Jenas would have helped too. But this was a game for battlers, and Davids might have been a better bet than the anonymous Murphy.

Huddlestone was neat and tidy, but the defence needed more protection. Unusually, Tainio provided the game's best passes (Defoe should have scored from one of his through balls), but his tackling was wild and late. There was no width except from Lee until Lennon's late arrival, while Berbatov isn't cut out to lead the line on days like this. Mido might have been more game.

Where does Jol come in? Selection and transfers. We have three players who we seem unable to function without - King, Lennon and Berbatov. Two of those were missing yesterday. Our squad should be large enough to cope with any combination of up to 5 injuries. It wasn't. Why?

There is no cover for Lennon. Ghaly, injured in any case, doesn't do the same job. He and Murphy are wide men who drift to the middle, as are Davids and Malbranque. We need another touchline hugger - what on earth is Routledge doing at Fulham?

And cover for King - surely that's Gardner? We've seen a Gardner-Dawson partnership in the past, and it's worked. Gardner offers King's combination of pace, height and composure. The mistakes were cut out a while ago. Davenport can do a job alongside King, but he cannot fill his boots. To me, this is a simple selection error, although it would be nice to see some experienced cover come in. Upson or Ben Haim would be welcome.

We're in danger of wasting the best opportunities we'll ever get. If this season finishes as disappointingly as last season, don't expect all of Lennon, King and Huddlestone to stick around.

You've hit the nail on the head there.

It's unfortunate that we rely so heavily on King, Lennon, and Berbatov, with two of them having undless injury problems and the latter not seeming to fancy a bit of rough and tumble of a tough away fixture.

Also agree that yesterday was the perfect opportunity for Davids to stake a claim to the first team....Murphy has only broken into a sweat once this season whilst trying to prove a point against Liverpool, which sadly he couldn't manage. It's a shame he is now cup tied....he should be sold!

I guess we can only hope that Jol sees it the same way....
 

stevievon5

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Sep 23, 2005
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#26
Lets be fair, y'day was pretty poor and none more so than the performance of Lee. From the touchline Jolly must've forgotten all about SWP, Bent, Young, etc and tried his damdest to think of a decent left back for the club. Too often the Korean got the ball and too often he had no idea what to do except run at players and dive when touched (just ask Sean Davis).

Bar that, I think we'll do Cardiff at the Lane in a couple of weeks and this will all be forgotten about.

COYS.
 

Kurtzen

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Jan 13, 2006
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822
#27
Might be spared a 'dutch' repeat? BBc are reporting the Feyenoord match might be played behind closed doors c/o their Nantes 'excursion'. UEFA will advise on 19th Jan.
 
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
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37
#28
The game was on Sky because they thought we'd get beat and we didn't.
Simply put, an away draw is a result for us. We could have played much better and lost but instead we kept a clean sheet for the first time in ages and we lived to fight another day.
I'm proud of the boys and have fond hopes for the replay and the next round.
 

raveyh

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Feb 25, 2005
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5
#29
Good article, a few random comments:

I felt yesterday's performance, whilst hardly encouraging, was an improvement on our recent efforts against lower league opposition (namely, Port Vale and Southend).

We miss King's presence and ability (most teams would), although I personally thought that Davenport was our best player for much of the game - the major fault he has is a tendency to look for the easy pass back to Robinson when receiving the ball in space with midfield players available to receive the pass.

Assou-Ekotto clearly deserved the axe after the match against the A*se. Lee has been given the opportunity to earn the shirt - in my opinion he has failed miserably. If Jol is unable to bring in another left-back in January, Benoit should return the starting eleven (I saw somewhere that he was in fact injured - anyone got any news on this?). In pre-season and a number of our early matches he looked like he could be a very decent player.
 
Joined
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#30
Good article, a few random comments:

I felt yesterday's performance, whilst hardly encouraging, was an improvement on our recent efforts against lower league opposition (namely, Port Vale and Southend).

We miss King's presence and ability (most teams would), although I personally thought that Davenport was our best player for much of the game - the major fault he has is a tendency to look for the easy pass back to Robinson when receiving the ball in space with midfield players available to receive the pass.

Assou-Ekotto clearly deserved the axe after the match against the A*se. Lee has been given the opportunity to earn the shirt - in my opinion he has failed miserably. If Jol is unable to bring in another left-back in January, Benoit should return the starting eleven (I saw somewhere that he was in fact injured - anyone got any news on this?). In pre-season and a number of our early matches he looked like he could be a very decent player.
I agree re Assou-Ekotto. He started his Spurs career well enough with a couple of minor errors here and there, particularly in away games. But I think his performance against Arsenal goes down as one of the greatest impressions of a rabbit in headlights that I've ever seen. Maybe he didn't know what to expect, didn't appreciate the intensity of a derby game against the Arse but he certainly does now. If it doesn't break him, it'll only make him stronger. He's young, rated, and he'll learn.
 

Kurtzen

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#31
And what protection did A-E get from his 'left half'. Or, for that matter did Lee get yesterday.....
And are people overlooking that two of arse's goals came, rightly or wrongly, via the right back? Who also was 'marooned' by his half.
Doesn't fit the script....bah.
 
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#32
And what protection did A-E get from his 'left half'. Or, for that matter did Lee get yesterday.....
And are people overlooking that two of arse's goals came, rightly or wrongly, via the right back? Who also was 'marooned' by his half.
Doesn't fit the script....bah.

Completely agree. Many of our younger players need more protection in order to play with confidence, particularly Dawson who looks far more composed and confident when he's playing alongside King. I think Dawson panics a little bit without Ledley which in turn doesn't do the confidence of Davenport any good. Which in turn spreads to Robbo and our fullbacks, creating a general sense of chaos.
 

davidmatzdorf

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#33
How any Spurs supporter can delude themselves in thinking that we are even approaching the level of the Big 4 or even some of the lesser lights of the Premier Division away from home is beyond me.
That's the same team that recently beat Chelsea, Besiktas and Leverkusen, yes?

Take a pill. Then breathe deeply.

Whoever said this article was "bit a extreme" was being kind.
 

davidmatzdorf

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#34
Nothing like a passionate post to get the punters at it eh? I understand the frustration but believe we are far better in you are giving us credit for. personally I feel we are very close to Liverpool and with a bit of the luck we deserved from those games could have won both. So the line is fine indeed between victory and defeat or delight and frustration.

...

So on the whole whilst I would accept that we look for much more from Spurs and should expect it these days. A goal-less FA cup draw on a horrible evening in a horrible ground doesn't warrant so much criticism as we are moving forward still.
Good post. Agree with pretty much everything you have written. Except that I wouldn't have wanted to be Berbatov and Defoe out there last night. Excruciatingly difficult to keep one's balance and control the ball. Impossible to play stylish football. Which is their stock in trade.
 

klink

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Apr 10, 2005
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#35
Any cup game such as this is a once off and doesnt warrant the analysis being made. Cardiff up for the game, our injuries and the weather mean I'm happy with draw. Big teams lose cup games, we didnt.
 

Laudrup

Allan Nielsen
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May 16, 2004
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#37
That's the same team that recently beat Chelsea, Besiktas and Leverkusen, yes?

Take a pill. Then breathe deeply.

Whoever said this article was "bit a extreme" was being kind.
To be honest, your comment actually make way for the most important argument related to this subject;

Ecxactly because we´ve shown on more than one occassion this year, that we actually can play away from WHL and that we actually can fill a game with passion, yesterdays very much under-par performance reminded me of our biggest problem this season - our inconsistency!!

And to blame the weather, the pitch, the crowd, the ref or the fact that the opponents fielded 11 players at kick off, is just not good enough - the same conditions must have affected Cardiff, no?

Our bottom-line play is not good enough. And that will cost us to many points, I´m afraid...

To wrap it up, the main point here is how I fail to understand the gap between home and away for the Tottenham Hotspur this season - and that a case of inconsistency as remarkable as ours, is just not good enough to consider ourselves contenders to the big 4...
 

NeverRed06

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Sep 16, 2006
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163
#38
to be honest i was happy with a draw and would have taken it if offered before the match, i usually defend our players but lee young pyo even tho he only made one mistake yesterday he was our worst player. some people sai he was good but if you watched him closely every time he got the ball he passed backwards towards dawson, davenport or robinson and his negativity nearly cost us a goal. its not entirely his fault as he is right footed on the left hand side and so thats why he kept using his right foot and giving it backwards. he was muscled out of the game and unfortunately isnt good enough on the left.

i personally would play him second fiddle to chimbonda on the right as he will be more effective and i have seen some of his crossing and some is awful but i have seen him deliver some quality crosses. stalteri should be sold and lee coverted to right back and we should bring in another left back preferably taylor or another left back with premiership experience.

other players that just dont fit in are davids and murphy, i think davids and murphy if used in their fav. positions would be effective but on the left they are both awful, id like to see this lineup against newcastle;

robinson
chimbonda dawson king/davenport lee/assou-ekotto
lennon murphy huddlestone malbranque
berbatov defoe

bench; cerny, gardner, tainio, ghaly, keane
 

Laudrup

Allan Nielsen
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May 16, 2004
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#39
I think Dawson panics a little bit without Ledley which in turn doesn't do the confidence of Davenport any good. Which in turn spreads to Robbo and our fullbacks, creating a general sense of chaos.
That´s the impression I got aswell - plus Lee´s passing sideways or backwards, even if he had an opportunity to play the oncoming striker or midfielder in the feet. He seemed much too determined not to make mistakes instead of taking the game forward...

He looked really, really uncomfortable IMO - can´t be nerves, as he represents the 1/29 part of the team that actually played in a WC - semifinal...

Well - on we go. Next, Newcastle...:beer: . Enjoy!!
 

vigospur

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Dec 10, 2006
Messages
1,115
#40
This post reads as though we lost. Ask Liverpool, A Villa, Everton etc. what they thought of this result. And ask yourself if we end up getting to Wembley.
This is a cup competition. Getting into the draw for the next round is what matters. It is ridiculous to pretend that the "big four" don't also play poorly at times.
 
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