ENIC...

[Metalhead]

I agree that it just goes around in circles with no side of the fence ever winning the argument.
FWIW I don't hate levy but I am no Fanboy either, the business side of the club from infrastructure and the world record profit achieved a couple of seasons ago was incredible no doubt.
But on the pitch it has been a vastly different story underachievement and near misses continually follows us around.
Levy has a reputation as a skilled negotiater with at times a clever business acumen, but will his legacy stay like that or end with on the pitch success I guess we have a while to find out that.

Oh yeah, I can totally see an argument on both ends and there is no point or anything to gain by shouting someone down for making the case either way. Everything is set up post pandemic to see significant investment on the playing side and with the club capitalising on the various avenues of income such as match day, NFL as well as other sporting and non sporting events then there is certainly no excuse not to see an obvious increase in on the field investment.

 

[DogsOfWar]

I agree that it just goes around in circles with no side of the fence ever winning the argument.
FWIW I don't hate levy but I am no Fanboy either, the business side of the club from infrastructure and the world record profit achieved a couple of seasons ago was incredible no doubt.
But on the pitch it has been a vastly different story underachievement and near misses continually follows us around.
Levy has a reputation as a skilled negotiater with at times a clever business acumen, but will his legacy stay like that or end with on the pitch success I guess we have a while to find out that.

For me, the football side is a question of is your glass half empty or half full.

Runners up in the Prem and the CL is better than anything since the early 60's when we won the league and lost in the semi's.
Our league finishes are the best since that era too and as CL football is a big part of that it's enabled us to play at the highest level.

Had Sissoko not handled the ball we could be discussing the greatest night in Spur's history.

As a result I don't think you can write off what we've achieved on the pitch even if we have no silverware to show for it so it's half full for me.

But if we're judged solely on silverware, the odd league and FA cup, then your cup would be half empty.

 

[shelfboy68]

For me, the football side is a question of is your glass half empty or half full.

Runners up in the Prem and the CL is better than anything since the early 60's when we won the league and lost in the semi's.
Our league finishes are the best since that era too and as CL football is a big part of that it's enabled us to play at the highest level.

Had Sissoko not handled the ball we could be discussing the greatest night in Spur's history.

As a result I don't think you can write off what we've achieved on the pitch even if we have no silverware to show for it so it's half full for me.

But if we're judged solely on silverware, the odd league and FA cup, then your cup would be half empty.

I suppose it depends on what an individual thinks is achievement and I respect that your happy with the way it is and that is fine.

 

[dontcallme]

For me the big criticism of Levy and ENIC is the running of the football side of things. You'd think an astute businessman like Levy who looks to the long term would be able to put a system in place to create continuity.

I remember when he fired Hoddle. He took on a caretaker manager for the rest of the season and in the end Arnesen was hired. Arnesen spoke a lot about installing a system where the youth levels played the same formation and playing style as the first team so integration would be easier.

But then Arnesen left and a new DOF who bought different styles was brought in. Since Comolli left the hiring process has continued in a haphazard manner.

But fans who criticise or are outright anti-Levy/ENIC seem to criticise the spending. I have no problem with us becoming self-sufficient. Our turnover and structure has improved massively under ENIC and as a result higher amounts of money go onto wages and transfer fees.

I often read posts from people criticising the good businessman aspect as if it is a case of he runs the club profitably at the expense of the playing side. I feel it's more that Levy has no real clue how to run the playing side or hire the right people.

 

[shelfboy68]

For me the big criticism of Levy and ENIC is the running of the football side of things. You'd think an astute businessman like Levy who looks to the long term would be able to put a system in place to create continuity.

I remember when he fired Hoddle. He took on a caretaker manager for the rest of the season and in the end Arnesen was hired. Arnesen spoke a lot about installing a system where the youth levels played the same formation and playing style as the first team so integration would be easier.

But then Arnesen left and a new DOF who bought different styles was brought in. Since Comolli left the hiring process has continued in a haphazard manner.

But fans who criticise or are outright anti-Levy/ENIC seem to criticise the spending. I have no problem with us becoming self-sufficient. Our turnover and structure has improved massively under ENIC and as a result higher amounts of money go onto wages and transfer fees.

I often read posts from people criticising the good businessman aspect as if it is a case of he runs the club profitably at the expense of the playing side. I feel it's more that Levy has no real clue how to run the playing side or hire the right people.

I think your right I have already stated that I don't hate levy and enic but whilst he is great at the commercial side and there probably is no one better the football side is still not right.
Maybe the club needs levy to concentrate only on the financial situation and leave another to take control of the football someone who understands that aspect of it.
Everytime we hire someone to oversee the football set up they never last long so it makes you wonder what is causing these people to quit.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

The football side in many ways is the hardest bit get to right it's so fickle. I'm struggling to think of any clubs, particularly in England, who have success that's not based around spending huge amounts. There are so many parts that can go wrong, every time a team thinks they've cracked i.e. Liverpool something goes wrong.
Great youth set up, fantastic scouting team, great DOF then a manager that doesn't work. Then get the right manager and the DOF leaves. The only way to keep a club relevant is to keep the financials high. When you look at the wage spend league table it generally follows the league table with the odd team moving up and the odd team moving down but it generally remains the same.

 

[McArchibald]

The football side in many ways is the hardest bit get to right it's so fickle. I'm struggling to think of any clubs, particularly in England, who have success that's not based around spending huge amounts. There are so many parts that can go wrong, every time a team thinks they've cracked i.e. Liverpool something goes wrong.
Great youth set up, fantastic scouting team, great DOF then a manager that doesn't work. Then get the right manager and the DOF leaves. The only way to keep a club relevant is to keep the financials high. When you look at the wage spend league table it generally follows the league table with the odd team moving up and the odd team moving down but it generally remains the same.

Not sure I agree... It works if you have a DoF and a manager who aren't trying to move into each others territory. There are plenty of examples where it works and works well. Like Brands and Ancelotti at Everton. Or Klopp and Michael Edwards on the other side of Stanley Park.
So if Spurs were to appoint a Jorge Campos to work alongside Mourinho, I wouldn't expect any turf wars breaking out between them any time soon.

The problems would lie much more with Levy giving a DoF enough room to manoeuvre... If there's any reason why the DoF setup hasn't worked at Spurs it's that, not because of friction with the incumbent manager.

In my opinion Levy has to take a step back from dealing with transfers. Our transfer activities have been subpar for a good few years now. We invest too little when it matters, don't get rid of our deadwood and miss out on all kinds of interesting up-and-coming players. And if we do splash out, we don't get value for money or buy a square peg for a round hole.
A DoF is desperately needed. And Levy needs to focus on the overall instead of on the business of the day.

 

[whitestreak]

I had a bet with a friend I could slip an indeterminate number of song references into this thread ...just because


It was 20 year ago today ...that Daniel Levy came into spurs to play
Sergeant Peppers Lonely farts club band.....
Shit guys, I know he is not the messiah, but during the time he has been here
on the field we have had seismic shifts.
When he came into us we were pretty much up the creek ............with a gooner at the helm....

Apart from Financial doping which has happened in the form of really shady arab monarchs, Thai politicians, and billionaires at Chelsea and then City, and the traditional sky top 4 pre them. The whole face of football changed more in the time Levy has been at WHL, than it had in the previous 50 years, or at least since the wage cap was abolished.

There was really not a lot happening at WHL. really since Scholar, who fffed it up anyway.

Take this from a guy that watched us from 58 (I was 4) dont remember too much to be honest thro 61...I remember shit loads..I was 7 till now. So i have been watching us for a good 60 years.

IMHO If it was not for the Pandemic and instead we had a full stadium with naming rights we would be coming out the traps like a rocket man.
As I write this Liverpool are having a similar dip in form to ours earlier this year...
I also know that there is a hard core of spurs fans that cant get no satisfaction ,,,
No matter what..

Ok so here's my take........... to have consistent success on the field you need a shit load of money.
Not a startling revelation , but just the same there are people about with an IQ of less than a plankton, that do not get it.
Furthermore just cos you throw a shitload of money at it does not mean you will get the desired result. But if you do not have Shitloads of money you have no chance.

The really smart guys build a money machine that actually does not rely on some russian, arab and country (Real Madrid and Barca) or any other sugar daddy that makes their club a winner .


But the reality is we are now close to becoming a world force, in football, pandemic apart for the next 50 years if things remain more less like they are now
Levys genius was to build the academy so that he could find his Kane etc. he set the conditions in place for it to happen.
Balance that with getting his team to perform so well that they reached Champions League final. Never happened before in our history, with Financial doping everywhere, and but for a disgraceful refereeing decision, not Levys fault could well have gone all the way.
I saw that as huge success on the pitch, as were the seasons we came 2nd and 3rd.
If anybody seriously thinks that the league cup win under Ramos was better than that honestly need their head examining
I will wildly celebrate any silverware along with the next fan, but if my choice was beat ManC in a CL semi or the League cup, i know which one I prefer.
Thats not to say, that its not gutting to lose a CL final of course it is. Levy has now built the stadium and the training ground and when things get back to normal, after COVID calms down and the money side of the business gets back on track, we are poised to kick on further.
Levy knows better than us ow important real meaningful success on the pitch is to that. He know that he needs a full stadium
ManU are an example of a successful club being able to buy their way back to the top,mainly due to the Fergie years.
pre fergie in the 70s they were not the biggest club in the UK, its debatable if they were the biggest club in the North west of England.
Back to Spurs, lets hope we get to another Euro final this season, and absolutely slaughter whoever we play,good chance it will be MAN U or the Arse....whilst it wont make up for losing aginst pool 2 Years ago, it will be special.
But just a thought barring us having a sugar daddy owner .........I would not really want that would u? After all the success when it comes will be all the sweeter because we did it the right way the hard way and the sustainable way.Trophies in the end will make the wait worth it..
Now if and when that happens, you have to admire the fact that Levy will be mainly responsible.
You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you just might find you get what you need!

Anyway my 2 cents FWIW, Glory Glory

 

[spursfan77]

?

 

[Timbo Tottenham]

?

Could you please explain to a simpleton (me)?

 

[spursfan77]

Could you please explain to a simpleton (me)?

Their owners are putting £200 million into the club of their own money. Just raising the point.

 

[DogsOfWar]

Their owners are putting £200 million into the club of their own money. Just raising the point.

I also believe they've been doing City style doping like one of the owners other companies paying £30 million just for the right to bid for the naming rights of the new stadium!
And, as it's infrastructure, he can also pay for the stadium without FFP issues.
He's certainly going all in on the club.

 

[buckley]

Take note Joe Lewis it is what owners do if they really are interested in success on the field of play . Not just " how much will I get back if I put my money into the club " The way I see it its a win win for the owners they invest to help the team build but still have the value of the shares it is not as tho it is free money given away . I would bet you the Everton fans one and all are delighted with their new owners .
Unlike our club who seem to be divided .

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I imagine that that money is more for the sake of keeping Everton solvent given that they aren’t well run enough to have got the government loan we took advantage of.

 

[skiba]

I imagine that that money is more for the sake of keeping Everton solvent given that they aren’t well run enough to have got the government loan we took advantage of.

I had a quick look at their accounts and they made a £130m loss for the year end June 2020 and there wages are around 90% of turnover. I imagine the £200m is simply to keep them running at their current rate and to ensure they don’t have a negative balance sheet.

Another thing that was quite interesting is that they made £11m in gate receipts. £14m in 2019 when they had a full season of games. Really highlights just how lucrative our stadium is.

 

[DiVaio]

Take note Joe Lewis it is what owners do if they really are interested in success on the field of play . Not just " how much will I get back if I put my money into the club " The way I see it its a win win for the owners they invest to help the team build but still have the value of the shares it is not as tho it is free money given away . I would bet you the Everton fans one and all are delighted with their new owners .
Unlike our club who seem to be divided .

...they are spending it on the stadium?

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I had a quick look at their accounts and they made a £130m loss for the year end June 2020 and there wages are around 90% of turnover. I imagine the £200m is simply to keep them running at their current rate and to ensure they don’t have a negative balance sheet.

Another thing that was quite interesting is that they made £11m in gate receipts. £14m in 2019 when they had a full season of games. Really highlights just how lucrative our stadium is.

Gotta love a companies house snoop! Thanks for posting.

But because our owners took out a no brainier loan instead, they aren’t as ambitious as Moshiri ?

Since Moshiri took over at Everton, as it would be unfair to the before that, which club has amassed the better group of players?

 

[wrd]

...they are spending it on the stadium?

They're not. They're loans against the club.

I'm not agreeing with who you quoted just stating what I believe to be the case in terms of your comment.

 

[DiVaio]

They're not. They're loans against the club.

I'm not agreeing with who you quoted just stating what I believe to be the case in terms of your comment.

Hmm, PriceofFootball in comments suspects that it's related to stadium. Btw found there interesting link suggesting that their owners aren't so brilliant as it seems https://theesk.org/2021/02/26/five-years-of-farhad/

 

[wrd]

Hmm, PriceofFootball in comments suspects that it's related to stadium. Btw found there interesting link suggesting that their owners aren't so brilliant as it seems https://theesk.org/2021/02/26/five-years-of-farhad/

Apologies i thought you meant enic with our stadium. Im not bothered about Everton tbh, I much prefer what owners have been doing with spurs.