ENIC...

[pffft]

Whilst sometimes it's a case of better the devil you know can apply, there is always the chance that the situation at spurs could improve under new ownership.
After all man city and Chelsea haven't done too bad since their new owners have taken control, certainly it's doubtful they would need to be replaced serving up success on a regular basis.

Not at all I'm referring to both the current owners I never mentioned previous ones you did that yourself.
Since both the current owners have been in control they barely go a season or two without winning anything, who cares about whether a stadium is not owned by city I'm sure if they want it they could probably get it.
Both these clubs have success that we can only dream about, compared with stuttering amounts at moderate success of reaching top four or the occasional final.

I can just about handle Joe Lewis owning the club, because although he is dodgy at least he doesn't have blood on his hands.
But if Spurs were bought by slavers or murderers my support of the club would end that very day. There's no way I am being associated with that kind of shit under any circumstance, and there's definitely no way I will ever support it. And if some people are prepared to accept those kind of owners simply because they bring success to a club, then those people need to take a long hard look at themselves.

 

[sausage]

I can just about handle Joe Lewis owning the club, because although he is dodgy at least he doesn't have blood on his hands.
But if Spurs were bought by slavers or murderers my support of the club would end that very day. There's no way I am being associated with that kind of shit under any circumstance, and there's definitely no way I will ever support it. And if some people are prepared to accept those kind of owners simply because they bring success to a club, then those people need to take a long hard look at themselves.

Anyone who says "I don't care about long term - I want success now" has a short memory as that's the Irving Scholar model that arguably set us back a few decades. We're pretty lucky having a fan in the ownership model - even if he isn't perfect and often handicapped by his own financial restraint.

 

[Metalhead]

Anyone who says "I don't care about long term - I want success now" has a short memory as that's the Irving Scholar model that arguably set us back a few decades. We're pretty lucky having a fan in the ownership model - even if he isn't perfect and often handicapped by his own financial restraint.

Definitely.

 

[shelfboy68]

I can just about handle Joe Lewis owning the club, because although he is dodgy at least he doesn't have blood on his hands.
But if Spurs were bought by slavers or murderers my support of the club would end that very day. There's no way I am being associated with that kind of shit under any circumstance, and there's definitely no way I will ever support it. And if some people are prepared to accept those kind of owners simply because they bring success to a club, then those people need to take a long hard look at themselves.

That of course is your opinion and choice.

 

[Monkey boy]

You seem to only allow the concept of a better outcome, when in reality we could be a lot worse off.

Worst thing would be to end up owned by an American sports investor, or some unscrupulous consortium

Are you saying the immortal phrase of the BSoDL’s......be careful what you wish for

 

[sausage]

Are you saying the immortal phrase of the BSoDL’s......be careful what you wish for

No, not at all - it's more like watching your mate in his late 20's thinking about leaving his Mrs for a foxy graduate, when there's a damn good chance the next time you see him he's chucking it into fat single mums he's met on Tinder.

Our current ownership is probably a 7/10 when you weigh in all the factors - it's not really that bad when you weigh it all up. How many in the league are better? What can we realistically expect.

It'd be great if a wealthy, passionate, and successful owner came in a did it all right, but I don't understand the gesture that the anti-ENIC people have that suggests anything else is better and can only be an improvement. It's a rude awakening in the pipeline to think that way.

 

[Bubble44]

anyone on coys? @Bubble44 ?
apparently dragon1 has posted something interesting about takeover/investment ? or is it all made up?

Haven't seen anything, sorry for late reply.

 

[SecretLemonadeDrinker]

Whilst sometimes it's a case of better the devil you know can apply, there is always the chance that the situation at spurs could improve under new ownership.
After all man city and Chelsea haven't done too bad since their new owners have taken control, certainly it's doubtful they would need to be replaced serving up success on a regular basis.

Owners like Chelsea's and City's have almost exclusively gone for basket case clubs that came dirt cheap.

Well run clubs like Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal have almost exclusively been snapped up by investors wishing to make money rather than wishing to pump money in.

Spurs belongs to the latter group.

So while I'm by no means wedded to ENIC, and would be thrilled if we were to be taken over by a fabulously wealthy, Spurs loving owner with a plan for world domination, I think it's perfectly valid to point out the shortsightedness of indiscriminately wishing for any kind of a takeover.

 

[shelfboy68]

Owners like Chelsea's and City's have almost exclusively gone for basket case clubs that came dirt cheap.

Well run clubs like Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal have almost exclusively been snapped up by investors wishing to make money rather than wishing to pump money in.

Spurs belongs to the latter group.

So while I'm by no means wedded to ENIC, and would be thrilled if we were to be taken over by a fabulously wealthy, Spurs loving owner with a plan for world domination, I think it's perfectly valid to point out the shortsightedness of indiscriminately wishing for any kind of a takeover.

I agree any takeover needs to be right for this club, trophy is whenever this subject is brought up anyone mentioning a potential change of ownership are rounded upon.

 

[SpursSince1980]

While a takeover of a City-like magnitude is highly improbable, I can potentially see an investor or investor group coming in and bolstering our financial standing, with a long-term view on profitability.

Right now, we are in a pretty awkward position. The stadium debt was always going to be hard to wrangle. But with the new capacity size, playing CL football, improved TV contracts, it would pay itself off and not completely cripple the club for a decade.

But then covid hit, and our team has taken a nose dive. Didn't get in the CL this season, and probably won't next either.

And as we saw this week from Swiss Ramble, we carry the largest debt of any club in the world.

Rock, meet hard place.

As we can only get CL football in the 'near' future by investing in the squad. We can't spend what is probably needed, as we are anchored by a massive debt. There is no immediate pathway toward financial solvency and abundance.

Naming rights will be helpful of course. But that's just a fraction of what's needed.

Instead, they need an investor(s) to come in and focus on the playing squad over the next three or four years, as the operational part of what we do, gets back on its feet again.

Yes, that could require a 200M or 300M investment. But the long term potential for profit is clear to see.

But getting back to where we were three years ago can't and won't happen if there is no investment in ENIC/Spurs. As the former are in a deep well of debt that is now threatening to swallow them whole. They need an investment lifeline... not a takeover.

 

[shelfboy68]

Apart from Covid which caught out the whole world in general the stadium debt is something the club must have been aware of and planned for.
The issue we have now is one of balance and making the right decisions, the club needs CL money pouring in to help with repayment, but to maintain that the team needs investment of better players which is hard without money.
It looks like those CL nights are going to be a distant memory with the club struggling probably to make top 8, is this going to be enough to satisfy supporters paying the highest price tickets in the country.
I fear we maybe heading for some rough times confrontation between fan's and the board, with the likes of Kane and son having it on their toes out the door, while enic grab as much money as they can and replace with inferior talent.
Whilst it's nice to have such a magnificent stadium what is the point when you have cheaper products as your interior it all defeats the object.

 

[ManningSpur]

The strange thing for me is - and bringing in the new appointment for negotiating naming rights - is that the new stadium has been planned for many years, and built for nearly 2 without selling naming rights. So why now all these years later are we suddenly seemingly pushing for naming rights? Ok Covid has of course massively impacted finances, but we would still have wanted to sell naming rights in any financial situation as a major source of new income so why did nothing happen for 2 years and more but now suddenly is being given a push?

Obviously to sell the club to a new owner without naming rights could be seen as a good thing as that owner may want to name the stadium themselves (e.g. Amazon stadium etc) So was selling the club the plan but has now been dropped and thus the sudden push on selling naming rights?

 

[Shadydan]

The strange thing for me is - and bringing in the new appointment for negotiating naming rights - is that the new stadium has been planned for many years, and built for nearly 2 without selling naming rights. So why now all these years later are we suddenly seemingly pushing for naming rights? Ok Covid has of course massively impacted finances, but we would still have wanted to sell naming rights in any financial situation as a major source of new income so why did nothing happen for 2 years and more but now suddenly is being given a push?

Obviously to sell the club to a new owner without naming rights could be seen as a good thing as that owner may want to name the stadium themselves (e.g. Amazon stadium etc) So was selling the club the plan but has now been dropped and thus the sudden push on selling naming rights?

We have always been pushing for naming rights but we've been trying to get the right/most lucrative deal for the club

 

[SecretLemonadeDrinker]

Apart from Covid which caught out the whole world in general the stadium debt is something the club must have been aware of and planned for.
The issue we have now is one of balance and making the right decisions, the club needs CL money pouring in to help with repayment, but to maintain that the team needs investment of better players which is hard without money.
It looks like those CL nights are going to be a distant memory with the club struggling probably to make top 8, is this going to be enough to satisfy supporters paying the highest price tickets in the country.
I fear we maybe heading for some rough times confrontation between fan's and the board, with the likes of Kane and son having it on their toes out the door, while enic grab as much money as they can and replace with inferior talent.
Whilst it's nice to have such a magnificent stadium what is the point when you have cheaper products as your interior it all defeats the object.

I don't get this kind of woe-is-us thinking at all, mate. Our current situation isn't anything like as dire or, more importantly, as chronic as you have convinced yourself it is.

There is nothing to suggest that Champions League involvement will become a "distant memory". Even less to suggest that we will "struggle to make top 8". Nor is there any sign yet that the likes of Son and Kane are on their way out. For crying out loud, it was only a couple of months ago that half the country thought that Spurs were serious challengers for the Premier League this season!

As to ENIC grabbing "as much money as they can", when have they ever done that? Never is the answer. It isn't their MO. At all. Seriously......it's just baseless scaremongering.

Sure, we're in a dreadful run of form. And the football has, for the most part, been unwatchable since that West Ham game. But these aren't necessarily long term, structural issues. They are comparatively easily fixed. With a new manager, for instance. And a couple of astute signings of the kind that helped us to become a top four regular.

The foundations for success are there. No question about it. Of course, that doesn't mean that we will qualify for CL every season or that we will translate potential into silverware. And maybe we will need new owners to break through that ceiling. But let's have some perspective, eh? We're still in a fucking brilliant place compared to 99% of other clubs. The doomsday scenario that you paint bears no relation to current reality.

 

[shelfboy68]

I don't get this kind of woe-is-us thinking at all, mate. Our current situation isn't anything like as dire or, more importantly, as chronic as you have convinced yourself it is.

There is nothing to suggest that Champions League involvement will become a "distant memory". Even less to suggest that we will "struggle to make top 8". Nor is there any sign yet that the likes of Son and Kane are on their way out. For crying out loud, it was only a couple of months ago that half the country thought that Spurs were serious challengers for the Premier League this season!

As to ENIC grabbing "as much money as they can", when have they ever done that? Never is the answer. It isn't their MO. At all. Seriously......it's just baseless scaremongering.

Sure, we're in a dreadful run of form. And the football has, for the most part, been unwatchable since that West Ham game. But these aren't necessarily long term, structural issues. They are comparatively easily fixed. With a new manager, for instance. And a couple of astute signings of the kind that helped us to become a top four regular.

The foundations for success are there. No question about it. Of course, that doesn't mean that we will qualify for CL every season or that we will translate potential into silverware. And maybe we will need new owners to break through that ceiling. But let's have some perspective, eh? We're still in a fucking brilliant place compared to 99% of other clubs. The doomsday scenario that you paint bears no relation to current reality.

I suppose as usual SC is divided into differing views and or opinions I'm sure at some point the truth of it all will play out.
For now I respect your view try to enjoy the game today if your watching.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

As to ENIC grabbing "as much money as they can", when have they ever done that? Never is the answer. It isn't their MO. At all. Seriously......it's just baseless scaremongering.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

Anyone who says "I don't care about long term - I want success now" has a short memory as that's the Irving Scholar model that arguably set us back a few decades. We're pretty lucky having a fan in the ownership model - even if he isn't perfect and often handicapped by his own financial restraint.

Scholar was quite a visionary and one the first chairmen to run a football club like a business. If he focused a bit more on the football side and less on other businesses he may have extended his tenure. I think his objective was to get all his complimentary businesses to generate enough money, that it would fund the football club..We all know that it didn't quite go to plan!

 

[shelfboy68]

View attachment 82617

Wondered where this little beauty was

 

[sausage]

Scholar was quite a visionary and one the first chairmen to run a football club like a business. If he focused a bit more on the football side and less on other businesses he may have extended his tenure. I think his objective was to get all his complimentary businesses to generate enough money, that it would fund the football club..We all know that it didn't quite go to plan!

What I was sort of hinting at is that Scholar was prepared to gamble on the business side - spending a lot of money to try and get quick success. Liverpool's behaviour in europe was unexpected but pretty much ruined Spurs and Everton because of an over-reliance on factors that we couldn't control or, indeed, forsee.

In many ways, the approach that has been criticised up until mid way through last season (e.g. prudent financials) has no doubt been vital.

If Scholar had been a bit more reserved, we could have well gone into the new PL era in a better position to be a top 3 club. High stakes, however, have high risks.

Where this is relevant is that I would hate to see the destruction if these state-funded clubs suddenly decided that the market wasn't ripe enough and pulled out. If, for example, we were bought be someone or something that didn't actually care for the club, there's an incredibly high likelihood that they would or could sell or separate the stadium or training ground from the football club.

Ideally we'd get bought by a rich football fan (or spurs fan) but clubs (especially ours) are too expensive for your Steve Morgan/Jack Walker/Alan Sugar types - that is, businessmen who want to own a club for fun. They're now big corporations or vastly immoral people, which can have scary consequences.

 

[RichieS]

View attachment 82617

You love it, you schlaaaag.

In fairness, I think @SecretLemonadeDrinker may have read @shelfboy68 's remark as I did, i.e. to mean ENIC are now going to start asset stripping the squad and pocketing the money. And there is no evidence for that. They have, of course, made their money through increasing the value of the club, what, tenfold? But they haven't seemed in any rush to sell up, so who knows what's on the agenda now?