Eurofoot Under 19 Tournament - Friday 3rd to Sunday 6 August

Discussion in 'Spurs Chat' started by Spursidol, Aug 2, 2012.

  1. eddiebailey

    eddiebailey Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,846
    Ratings Received:
    +5,438 / 422 / -118
    It was notable that last season's Academy produced just three professionals and one third year trainee; that is the poorest return for some years. At the same time we have been very active in signing young overseas players who have gone straight into the Development Squad. Not sure the Academy is producing the conveyor of young talent it should. It will be interesting to see how we get on in NextGen this year.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. StartingPrice

    StartingPrice Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip

    Messages:
    32,374
    Ratings Received:
    +10,277 / 102 / -84
    I have to confess, I make little distinction between the academy and players from elsewhere we get in around 16 years old.

    Would three professionals and a third year trainee be good, bad or indifferent, for one season? What age range does that encompass - like, one year or, say, 14 to 16 YOs or something? And do we have any stats to cmpare this to other clubs?
     
  3. eddiebailey

    eddiebailey Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,846
    Ratings Received:
    +5,438 / 422 / -118
    Not sure about other clubs but at Spurs in recent years Academy graduates (including third year trainees) have been:

    2012: Stewart, Barthram, Ekong, Munns
    2011: Kane, Fredericks, Pritchard, Lancaster, Archer, Miles, Oyenuga*, Waller-Larssen*, McBride* (Tapping transferred to Hearts)
    2010: Caulker, Parrett, Bostock, Carroll, Byrne, Nicholson, M'Poku*, Ranieri*
    2009: Mason, Townsend, Smith, Obika, Butcher*, Cox* (Kassim refused a contract)
    *released or sold

    So this year looks a bit thin by comparison. It is a bit of a concern that there does not seem to be much of a buzz about the current Academy intake, but of course you only need one youngster to make the grade for it to be worthwhile.
     
  4. Spursidol

    Spursidol Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,636
    Ratings Received:
    +16,192 / 191 / -80
    Re Hall (not sure Lascalles is coming, appeared for Notts Forest a couple of days ago) - He seems to have been signed to provide defenders for the u 21 squad, where again we are very short of players. After Caulker/Smith/Byrne the next oldest defenders are Stewart and Barthram at age 18 - both of whom look decent and will probably appear for u 21's next season.

    Whilst I absolutely agree that winning is not everything for this age group, performances are probably more importtant at this level, think that the midfield and fiorwards cannot show what they can do if the defence is rickety - and indeed having to persuade Ball ( a very cometent central midfiekd player) and Alex McQueen (again a very good right sided midfield player) to play as CB's does not help their development either. So Spurs failing to get in adequate defenders in this age group, may prejudiice the development ogf the entire age groiup.

    Of course, I am not against players experiencing playing in different positions, as this helps their footballing education, biut think they will get most out of it if moving from midfield to defence if they are playing alongside good specialist defenders.

    I agree with you that the aim is to get academy players into the first team and therefore you do not need to have a complete football team of players in every age group, however as football is a team sport, imo you need to ensure that you get good strikers eveery say 2 years, a left back every 2 years etc, so that from any 2 consecutive age groups (with an academy age grouup of 15 players this means over 20 players ) we should have most posiitions covered...and therefore we have a decent side which will be capable of reasonable results.

    One of the failings of the Academy imo is that they are producing a lot of midfield players, but not too many strikers or defenders - so unless we intend to adopt the Spanish system, we will not succeed in getting as many academy players into the first team squad as we would like. Of course buying in players at 18/18/20 to re-inforce the academy output is possible, but surely it would be better to get more of them in at age 16.
     
  5. Spursidol

    Spursidol Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,636
    Ratings Received:
    +16,192 / 191 / -80
  6. Spursidol

    Spursidol Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,636
    Ratings Received:
    +16,192 / 191 / -80
    Ray Lo@RayLo18
    Spurs lose opening two matches today. 1-0 to Utrecht and 2-1 to Club Brugge. The best they can hope for is 3rd. in group.
     
  7. StartingPrice

    StartingPrice Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip

    Messages:
    32,374
    Ratings Received:
    +10,277 / 102 / -84
    Yeah, but only time will tell...it's about quality, not quantity, good Pard'Ner ;)
    You have to appreciate, afaiac, if we produce a 1st teamer every 2 years and a couple of squad players every 2 to 3 years, it is paying. This could just be a blip, or, alternatively, these four could have shown somuch promise that powers decided keeping any more would have been just for the sake of it. We don't know.

    Worth keeping an eye on - but, there again, I am sure the pros at Bull's Cross* will be doing the same.

    * :whistle:

    You are right, I agree with everything you say - I was being slightly facetious (y)

    It's a difficult one, really, because, like with the 'keepers, as we discussed t'other day, the positions are so very different.
    If we take the central defenders, for instance, we are hoping that Kaboul/Verts can form a partnership for years to come, and, remember, a team benefits from having a regular pairing at the back. And then we have Caulker, who we produced. Now, allowing for feck-ups, for should be okay producing a decent central defender or two in the next 4 or 5 years. That's how I was looking at it.

    You are right, though, that the team (and it is a team game) will benefit form having competent centre-halves playing. And we do seem to be producing a lot of decent midfielders but strikers are a bit sparsse on the ground. But, there again, top-notch strikers are the rarest of resourse, which is probably why they are so expensive. Let's just hope Coulibaly is the business, and one or two more. And remember - these younglings, they are like football cards, we can trade three mids for a forward;)

    Out of interest, did you see the clip of the lads playing EAs latest footy offering, it's on the OS.
     
  8. Spursidol

    Spursidol Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,636
    Ratings Received:
    +16,192 / 191 / -80
    Cheers - Coulibally scored 2 at Northampton which is a good sign. Maybe he can get to be in the group around the first team in a season or two.

    Re defenders, after Caulker & Smiith think we may need to wait for Stewart and Veljkovic...and after that for Connor Ogilve (now 16) !
     
  9. Spursidol

    Spursidol Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,636
    Ratings Received:
    +16,192 / 191 / -80
    I quizzed Ray Lo as to why results were not good, suggesting defenders as being a potential issue, and he has replied :

    Ray Lo@RayLo18
    @SpursIdol There are not enough defenders according to the coaches and some players gone to the Spurs XI.
     
  10. StartingPrice

    StartingPrice Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip

    Messages:
    32,374
    Ratings Received:
    +10,277 / 102 / -84
    Yup...and apparently Bostock was quite the thang, too. Maybe the new coaching staff have unravelled that enigma, too (y)
     
  11. Spursidol

    Spursidol Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,636
    Ratings Received:
    +16,192 / 191 / -80
    Lost last match of the day 2-1 to Standard Liege - Darren McQueen the scorer.

    We finished botton of our group and play Anderlecht (who finished bottom of their group) tomorrow at 1.30 (12.30 UK time)
     
  12. Romulus

    Romulus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,271
    Ratings Received:
    +3,364 / 111 / -53
    bottom of the group? oh dear
     
  13. Spursidol

    Spursidol Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,636
    Ratings Received:
    +16,192 / 191 / -80
    Ray Lo's reports on the last 4 matches are on http://www.spursodyssey.com/

    Spurs 0 FC Utrecht 1
    · Spurs 1 Club Brugge 2
    · Spurs 1 Standard Luik 2
    · Spurs 1 Anderlecht 1 (Spurs win 3-1 on pens)

    Disappointing tournament in that without enough specialist defenders in the squad, midfielld platers were playing as centre backs and consequently the deefence was not robust enough. It will be interesting to see if Spurs being back the likes of Stewart, Ekong, Barthram and Veljkovic into the NextGen Series squad - ot whether all of these will be playing in the new u 21 league.
     
  14. StartingPrice

    StartingPrice Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip

    Messages:
    32,374
    Ratings Received:
    +10,277 / 102 / -84
    Sorry, SI, I seem to have confused myself - do we enter two entirely sperate squads for the NextGen and the U 21 league? I kinda assumed that it would be like EPL/CL (or Europa :cry:) only the kiddies version.
    And, if yes, how will all this effect our ability to list players in the full squad?
     
  15. Spursidol

    Spursidol Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,636
    Ratings Received:
    +16,192 / 191 / -80
    As far as I am aware there is no need to submit squad lists for u 21 or NextGen Series, before the start of the competition (but not all the detailed rules have been published yet).

    However in u 21 league there are 14 games before Christmas (group of 8 played home and away) plus there will be 6 NextSeries games (group of 4 played home and away), so I doubt if a young playercould play all the games in both competitions.

    So the coaches may need to juggle some of the younger defenders between squads so that we have sufficient defenders available to cover both sets of fixtures.

    Of course Spurs would probably like to play most of the 18 year ldsw in u 21 squad to develop them faster, However that could be at the expense of developing the midfield/forwards in NextGen if they have a rickety defence, so it could be an interesting balancing act.

    The specialist defenders who could play at u 21 and u 19 level include :

    u 21 : Caulker (probably unlikely to play other than to maintain fitness), Smith (as Caulker ?), Hall, Fryers (but also likely to have some first team chances ?) , Byrne, Stewart, Veljkovic, Barthram, Ekong plus Giancarlo Gallifuco (plays CM and CB).

    It is allowed to play 3 overage players in u 21's.

    Next Gen u 18 Series :
    In the maximum 3 'overage' category (max 2 playing) : Stewart, Ekong, Barthram. (all played NextGen last season, probably want to move onto u 21's ?),
    In the core age category - Veljkovic (who played NextGen last season, probably needs to move onto u 21's ?), Modeste (possible for later games dependiing on rate of recovery), Gardiner (did not play much last season = not up to standard yet ?), Giancarlo Gakifuco, Connor Ogilvey (good 16 year old - maybe too big a leap ?) plus as full backs Roman Micheal-Percil and Grant Ward. After that Spurs are into CM's who have played as CB as their secondary position such as Dominic Ball and Alex McQueen - good players but not necessarily experienced enough as CB's so may get found out.

    So there probably enough players, but as I say it may take some juggling to ensure each of the u 21 and u 19 squads is adequately resourced for specialist defenders.

    In terms of the first team squad - all the above could play in the Premiership as under 21's, but in Europa League there is a minimum time qualifivcation tio have been spent at Spurs so Hall, Gakifucco, Fryers and Veljkovic could not play as u 21's and would need to be registered as part of the squad of 25 to play.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. eddiebailey

    eddiebailey Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,846
    Ratings Received:
    +5,438 / 422 / -118
    Last season as I recall the NextGen squad was managed by Sherwood rather than Ingelthorpe, and was made up of a mix of younger homegrown development squad players, young overseas professionals and the more precocious academy boys. I am sure the likes of Veljkovic, Bentilab, Coulibaly, Gomelt and Dombaxe will play again this time, with a few others from last year's squad popping up as overage players (I seem to recall Carroll, Kane, Fredericks, Bostock, Ceballos, Lancaster and others featuring in that capacity last year.)

    We have such a bloated development squad that unless we start loaning players out wholesale it should be possible to put out a really strong NextGen side without significantly weakening the U21s, particularly with Hall and Fryers as defensive additions to the latter. Could do with getting Lancaster fit though, otherwise Coulibaly is going to be a busy boy.
     
  17. Spursidol

    Spursidol Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,636
    Ratings Received:
    +16,192 / 191 / -80
    In broad terms, I agree. However the development squad has a high proportion of midfielders, adequate number of goalkeepers, but is slightly light on defenders and forwards.

    Think 2 of Stewart, Barthram and Ekong may play as overage players in Next Gen Series to help out the under 19 defence (but also make some appearances in u 21's), but think the attack might be mainly Shaquillle Coultirst and Academy year 2 players with Coulibally playing mainly u 21's with a view to getting Coulibally into the group of half dozen whoi may get a few appearances in the firsr team (likely as substitutes, domestic cups etc) - unless Coulibally is loaned out st a decent level.

    The u21's will be well stocked for midfield players , and defence could be made from players in my previous post, and as strikers - hope Cameron Lancaster stays fit as an alternative to Souleymane Coulibally. Think the u21's will be too low level to develop Harry Kane.
     
  18. eddiebailey

    eddiebailey Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,846
    Ratings Received:
    +5,438 / 422 / -118
    I am not so sure about Kane, I can see the likes of him, Caullker, Rose, Livermore, Naughton, Carroll and Townsend all featuring in the U21s just to top their fitness up.
     

Share This Page