Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[spurs mental]

Ah everything’s probably fine then, what’s he doing for the game this weekend?

Just doesn't add up to me.

Probably sitting on a beach somewhere but wouldn't be surprised if he's sat watching us either.

 

[RuskyM]

Encouraging subordinates to communicate transparently without management interference is USUALLY an effective approach to team building.

You have to have a spattering of people willing to step-up and get the ball rolling for it to work.

Our lot probably sat there waiting for Hugo or Harry to say something.

This where the great sides have a Keane, Viera, Maldini, Gattuso, to carry it through.

So instead of it being players finding his methods outdated, it’s our players are all big scaredy-cats?

Don’t get this insistence that our players must be weak and cowardly rather than the much more likely factor that we hired two dinosaurs who couldn’t relate to them, in a manner very similar to what’s happened elsewhere to them.

 

[spurs mental]

So instead of it being players finding his methods outdated, it’s our players are all big scaredy-cats?

Don’t get this insistence that our players must be weak and cowardly rather than the much more likely factor that we hired two dinosaurs who couldn’t relate to them, in a manner very similar to what’s happened elsewhere to them.

It can't always be the coaches though. Players have consistently let this club down, new and old. Not just the old Poch players either. They let him down too.

Our recruitment has been largely horrific over the last decade, save for a couple of gems.

It's just easier for Levy to ditch a manager than it is to sell a player because of the way he is.

 

[RuskyM]

It can't always be the coaches though. Players have consistently let this club down, new and old. Not just the old Poch players either. They let him down too.

Our recruitment has been largely horrific over the last decade, save for a couple of gems.

It's just easier for Levy to ditch a manager than it is to sell a player because of the way he is.

Which is fair, but I think I just cannot understand the idea that it’s the fault of a collective which has changed many parts many times rather than two combustible managers who we knew were like this when we hired them.

Besides, a lot of players we’ve been told are the problem have gone - how many is it? It becomes a Ship of Theseus problem pretty quickly.

Sorry for flippancy in previous post btw I’ve been sleeping proper bad lately.

 

[spurs9]

Actually 2km isn't a lot wont take more than 10 mins.

However, I bet if they played front foot football they wouldn't have complained about it.

Poch's training was absolutely brutal yet no complaints

The average footballer runs approx 10kms in a game, there is no need for the warm up to be an extra 20% of that.

The point of a warm up is get the players physically and mentally sharp before the game starts, not to take away energy.

Poch's training was brutal, not his warm up, big difference.

 

[Japhet]

It can't always be the coaches though. Players have consistently let this club down, new and old. Not just the old Poch players either. They let him down too.

Our recruitment has been largely horrific over the last decade, save for a couple of gems.

It's just easier for Levy to ditch a manager than it is to sell a player because of the way he is.

I think the coaching contributes hugely. For example, our CBs aren't great, so Mourinho has us camped in our penalty area as a preference with an occasional break forward. Conte, faced with the same situation, uses a pivot midfield which is continually outnumbered. Once the opposition get past our CMs (usually with a bit of slick passing), they're running at CBs like Dier and Lenglet who can't turn and are slow as treacle. Injuries have done for us now in that respect with Bentancur and Bissouma out but we could have competed much harder in MF before if we'd dropped the woefully out of form Son for an extra body in there when they were available. Conte simply would not budge on it though even though it was an obvious problem. A lot of the time, the only way we got any 'go forward' from MF was when Kane dropped in there, but then we're light up top.

 

[spurs9]

Its around 4 laps of the pitch, these are elite athletes, not Barry the bus driver. If 2km has any impact on them we need to get rid

Marathon runners are elite athletes, but doing an extra 2kms before a marathon is going to impact the their performance.

 

[spurs9]

Encouraging subordinates to communicate transparently without management interference is USUALLY an effective approach to team building.

You have to have a spattering of people willing to step-up and get the ball rolling for it to work.

Our lot probably sat there waiting for Hugo or Harry to say something.

This where the great sides have a Keane, Viera, Maldini, Gattuso, to carry it through.

Yeah, I can imagine a manager getting his sales team in a room and saying "you work out why you're sales figures are shit" before walking out, would definitely be an effective approach to team building.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

And so it came to pass, the thread slowly starts to choke on it's own vomit as people engage in the eternal battle for cock inches

 

[eViL]

So instead of it being players finding his methods outdated, it’s our players are all big scaredy-cats?

Don’t get this insistence that our players must be weak and cowardly rather than the much more likely factor that we hired two dinosaurs who couldn’t relate to them, in a manner very similar to what’s happened elsewhere to them.

You watched the Amazon thing like the rest of us did, right?

When Mourinho suggested they stop being so nice? And Kane was the only one that popped his head above the parapet to call out the lack of bravery in ball playing?

Use what you see Bro.

Conte is used to dealing with Italians. A bunch of hot-heads that scream at each other then go eat pasta together with their familes the same evening..

This is ADULTS football at the top level. If you want examples of how it should be; listen to Peter Crouch talk about Gerrard and Carragher at Liverpool.

 

[eViL]

Yeah, I can imagine a manager getting his sales team in a room and saying "you work out why you're sales figures are shit" before walking out, would definitely be an effective approach to team building.

Depends if you have a sales team that doesn't know how to sell anything. Do you think Conte did that at every meeting? Nah. He'd been here a year already and the players still weren't talking to each other.

 

[Styopa]

So instead of it being players finding his methods outdated, it’s our players are all big scaredy-cats?

Don’t get this insistence that our players must be weak and cowardly rather than the much more likely factor that we hired two dinosaurs who couldn’t relate to them, in a manner very similar to what’s happened elsewhere to them.

As I've posted a few times, this group of players have won bucketloads of major trophies between them, just none at Tottenham. They're not the perpetual toxic no-hopers they're regularly made out to be. We have players who have won World Cups, Champions Leagues and virtually every major European league.

So if we want to say coaches like Conte and Mourinho have won lots of trophies, we should also say these players have won loads. Some people like to believe that because Conte has won trophies elsewhere, the problem must lie with the players. But it's just factually incorrect to claim Conte is a "winner", whereas this group of players are not.

The most we can say is they have all, - Conte, the coaching staff, the players etc. -, failed to win anything with Tottenham.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Same as when Nuno left.

Just says to me that we hired yet another bad fit manager who bored and frustrated this group of players.

I don’t think this group are bad eggs at all, I just think we’ve subjected a lot of them to have to work for 3 managers in a row all who play equally dull negative anti possession football and all who are themselves either dull (Nuno) toxic (jose) or negative and self-righteous/arrogant (conte).

Give the players a positive manager who plays football they will enjoy playing and who builds up theirs and the club’s confidence and the whole club will look and feel completely different again.

Love to know if any of the 4 who disagreed with this have actually played football at a professional level because trust me if you're playing and training day in day out under a manager or in this case 3 managers for 3 years who all play a very defensive rigid style and who are relatively negative personalities it doesn't matter if you have the best most positive mindset in the world, you might still try hard but you will not be enjoying your football at all and your confidence is likely to suffer.

I think some people underestimate the impact that a good positive environment and man management can have on players, Jol, Redknapp and Poch all showed this, Arteta is showing this at Arsenal etc etc.

 

[spursfan77]

Same as when Nuno left.

Just says to me that we hired yet another bad fit manager who bored and frustrated this group of players.

I don’t think this group are bad eggs at all, I just think we’ve subjected a lot of them to have to work for 3 managers in a row all who play equally dull negative anti possession football and all who are themselves either dull (Nuno) toxic (jose) or negative and self-righteous/arrogant (conte).

Give the players a positive manager who plays football they will enjoy playing and who builds up theirs and the club’s confidence and the whole club will look and feel completely different again.

I think there’s a lot to be said for approaching everything in a positive manner. It’s probably even just about ok having a negative manager behind the scenes if you’re playing fun attacking football. But when there’s negativity behind the scenes and you’re playing boring stage managed football then the players aren’t going to be enjoying it and performing to their best. Nobody would in similar circumstances in their own day to day jobs.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I think there’s a lot to be said for approaching everything in a positive manner. It’s probably even just about ok having a negative manager behind the scenes if you’re playing fun attacking football. But when there’s negativity behind the scenes and you’re playing boring stage managed football then the players aren’t going to be enjoying it and performing to their best. Nobody would in similar circumstances in their own day to day jobs.

So true completely agree mate you’ve summed it up perfectly

 

[spursfan77]

'Meanwhile, the Italian's intense training regime had players on their knees. Conte often had them run 2km before matches. Players wouldn't dare moan in his earshot, but privately they were baffled.

Surely, they should be reserving energy for the heat of the battle?'

And we wondered why we had one good half at a maximum every game

I think it was Matt Doherty who said after a preseason game that they’d already done a full day’s training before it and none of them had known anything like it. I maintain he lost a few of them during preseason when they just went too hard on them and it showed in the early matches. This is a group of players too who lots of them had experienced a Poch preseason which were known to be exhausting.

 

[Trix]

As I've posted a few times, this group of players have won bucketloads of major trophies between them, just none at Tottenham. They're not the perpetual toxic no-hopers they're regularly made out to be. We have players who have won World Cups, Champions Leagues and virtually every major European league.

So if we want to say coaches like Conte and Mourinho have won lots of trophies, we should also say these players have won loads. Some people like to believe that because Conte has won trophies elsewhere, the problem must lie with the players. But it's just factually incorrect to claim Conte is a "winner", whereas this group of players are not.

The most we can say is they have all, - Conte, the coaching staff, the players etc. -, failed to win anything with Tottenham.

This is true however where this falls down is with the long term players that have been here though all those managers, because they haven't won bucket loads of trophies. The fact is they form the core of the squad and have done for the last 5-6 years. And when something is ingrained in a societal group it becomes very easy to adopt that mentality the more you are part of it. As Conte said it's a club wide thing from top to bottom. Levy's goal every season in top 4, and you only have to read some of the posts on here to see many fans aren't overly fussed about trophies as long as they are entertained.

 

[Styopa]

This is true however where this falls down is with the long term players that have been here though all those managers, because they haven't won bucket loads of trophies. The fact is they form the core of the squad and have done for the last 5-6 years. And when something is ingrained in a societal group it becomes very easy to adopt that mentality the more you are part of it. As Conte said it's a club wide thing from top to bottom. Levy's goal every season in top 4, and you only have to read some of the posts on here to see many fans aren't overly fussed about trophies as long as they are entertained.

But who are we talking about by "core"? As much as we have had a consistent "core" for the last 5-6 years, it has been Lloris, Dier, Davies, Son and Kane. Others have come and gone or always been on the fringes- squad options at most, which virtually every club has. The "core" during the last 18 months to two years has changed and includes Romero, Emerson, Bentancur, Hjobjerg Kuluseveski and those mentioned above.

I totally agree though, that one of the biggest problems is that Levy makes the top four the goal every season. Fine, have it as a goal, but he has consistently prized it above progressing in cup competitions and I think that has created a particular culture at the club.

 

[Trix]

But who are we talking about by "core"? As much as we have had a consistent "core" for the last 5-6 years, it has been Lloris, Dier, Davies, Son and Kane. Others have come and gone or always been on the fringes- squad options at most, which virtually every club has. The "core" during the last 18 months to two years has changed and includes Romero, Emerson, Bentancur, Hjobjerg Kuluseveski and those mentioned above.

I totally agree though, that one of the biggest problems is that Levy makes the top four the goal every season. Fine, have it as a goal, but he has consistently prized it above progressing in cup competitions and I think that has created a particular culture at the club.

I just think it's something that has been passed down at the club for over a decade. It's been the same observation from a lot of coaches for a long time, remember, "Lads it's Tottenham"

 

[Cel]

I just think it's something that has been passed down at the club for over a decade. It's been the same observation from a lot of coaches for a long time, remember, "Lads it's Tottenham"

It's more than a decade, we've always been like that in the 30ish years I've been a fan - just the expectations recently are higher maybe.