Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[Archibald&Crooks]

I've seen this said more frequently recently, and it was said with Jose as well, but I don't understand it. What is it based off?

The Parrot syndrome?

 

[SaiboT]

We have the 4th most wins in the top 10 and only one less than Man Utd in 3rd. That’s good, keep the manager good.

Pretty pointless looking at things in isolation isn’t it.

Thanks to Kane mostly…

 

[mil1lion]

So basically you have zero evidence he wanted Lenglet which is what you stated initially. We got Lenglet in all likelihood because he was cheap. But I very much doubt conte wanted Lenglet off all players. Same way Rodon wasn't a Jose choice. Same shit different manager.

we are still fourth in goals scored regardless of the drop off so we are scoring at a rate to win games however dull it is. We however can't defend you save our lives.

conte will go but the same problems will persist at a club which chooses the cheap options

There's no way we wanted Lenglet that much. If we did the loan would have been done quicker and would have an option to buy. I remember that loan dragging on so it always felt it was being held to one side while we tried our first choice instead.

 

[Timberwolf]

If we get knocked out by Milan this week I struggle to see us actually pulling the trigger on Conte when we're still sitting in the top 4 (even though I doubt we'll stay there long). Would we really pay him off when there's less than 3 months of the season left?

Like, getting knocked out of both cups in a week would be very disappointing, but if it was clear Conte was leaving in the summer, why not just bite the bullet in Jan rather than limping along with a zombie manager? And conversely, now we've stuck with him until March maybe better just to let him ride the season out and start fresh in the summer?

Only reason it would make sense is if the board have suddenly decided they don't think Conte has what it takes to get us top 4 anymore and would rather pay him off and gamble on a new (old?) manager bounce with Poch to give us a boost over the run in.

If it's true it would feel quite messy and ill-thought through, so would make perfect sense as that's how we tend to operate.

 

[Harrier]

There is a cultish anti-Conte movement. They are literally incapable of rational thought where Conte is concerned, just overly obsessed with how "shit" our football is and wanting a "progressive project manager" in.

And you could quite easily swap that statement for the cultish pro-Conte movement as well as throw in the anti-Levy brigade, who will blame Levy for virtually anything including their wife shagging their best mate!

 

[spurs mental]

Paid a kings ransom to placate the fans by bringing in a top top name to take the pressure off our Chairman for all the dreadful mistakes and bad footballing decisions he’s yet again made

More smoke & mirrors from our leader to keep his job ‘sweet’

Ok, sorry, but i don't see how any of that is Conte's fault. He didn't decide what Levy would pay him at the end of the day. I fail to see how he's doing us a favour by being our coach.

 

[Harrier]

I can see him weeping and blowing his nose on the 15 million quid a year he earns. Bless his cotton-socks.

 

[Styopa]

We knew what we were getting into bed with both with Conte and Mourinho; they need funds and specific players to fit into their specific systems and then they win things.
We have broken promises to both of them, probably because when it came to the crunch, we weren't willing to pay the money, rendering both of their appointments utterly pointless.
We will in all likelihood now go back to the ex, who we had a few good times with, but also had a 12 month period at the end where it all went to absolute ratshit and should've parted ways sooner. Poch also regularly fucked off the domestic cups, which a fair few have conveniently forgotten in the last 7 days...doesn't fit the narrative
He'll now come in and not cause any fuss, just tow the party line, like a faithful labrador; perfect for the board.
Such an alarming and disappointing lack of ambition.

It wasn't twelve months, though. More like a bad six months, considering the gap between the end of the 18/19 season and the start of 19/20. It was only from match 27 of 18/19 that the wheels came off.

- As late as 22 Feb 19, or 26 matches into 18/19, (i.e. same stage as now), we were 9 points clear in third place and just 5 points behind leaders Man City -with a game in hand.

- In 18/19, we were 15 points better off than we are today, having played the same number of games.

- In 18/19, we won 20 of our first 26 matches. This season we have won 14 of our 26 games.

- In 18/19, we lost six times after 26 matches. We have lost nine times this season.

- In 18/19, we scored 54 and conceded 25 after 26 matches. This season we have scored 46 and conceded 36.

We also did okay in the domestic cups under Poch. We at least regularly made the semi-finals during his time here:

18/19- semi-final of League cup
17/18- semi-final of the FA cup
16/17 semi-final of the FA cup
14/15 League cup runners up

 

[wrd]

We knew what we were getting into bed with both with Conte and Mourinho; they need funds and specific players to fit into their specific systems and then they win things.
We have broken promises to both of them, probably because when it came to the crunch, we weren't willing to pay the money, rendering both of their appointments utterly pointless.
We will in all likelihood now go back to the ex, who we had a few good times with, but also had a 12 month period at the end where it all went to absolute ratshit and should've parted ways sooner. Poch also regularly fucked off the domestic cups, which a fair few have conveniently forgotten in the last 7 days...doesn't fit the narrative
He'll now come in and not cause any fuss, just tow the party line, like a faithful labrador; perfect for the board.
Such an alarming and disappointing lack of ambition.

I'm sorry I have no intention of singling one person out with this gripe as it's more general but it now beggars belief to me that people still bring up the final period as a reason to devalue Poch. I think people really by now should have learnt to appreciate the context of what that final 12 months entailed. We lost Wanyama to injuries where he was unable to recover his ability due to damage on his knee's, We lost Dembele who was arguably the most pivotal player we had by far and that is still underappreciated to this day. We had to make do with Winks and Sissoko covering for them and we then had a pile of injuries as we dragged our way to the champions league final and a top 4 finish, go look at the line-ups we had in those final months of that season.

People also ignore that our stadium was delayed for 6 months, The players, the staff, the fans all thought we was going back to Tottenham and we didn't for an additional 6 months. People just completely forget how that felt, everybody hated it, it was said out loud by the players, everybody had the mental energy of people whose flights were delayed home. We then had to navigate moving into a brand new stadium with no prior pre-season to get settled. Look at Arsenal in their first season at the Emirates. They didn't have the hangovers we did of playing at Wembley for 18 months or it happening midseason. People then ignore the absolutely devastating mental impact that coming inches from winning the champions league had on the players and staff. They ignore that we made big signings, 2 of which got injured instantly as we tried to transition, people expected us to be bang at it, all new players settled in, being world class right away because they were replacing players who had left 6 months earlier, instead of easing them in and phasing old players out, a mistake we have made yet again with Lloris as a new keeper will have to come in and be bang at it day 1. People ignore that teams go through cycles. Liverpool have had 2 seasons where they've hit a wall and their club backed Klopp and he turned both of those seasons around. The first time, the season after they nearly won a quadruple.

I do think Poch probably needed a break but the fact that fans just ignore all these things and always go "oh but remember that bad period though" Well clearly people don't because they don't seem to ever acknowledge why it happened. I've never hid my love for Poch but I've rarely bothered to lament this failure of people who throw that jibe out to appreciate contextually why because I want to move forward and I certainly still want Conte to succeed but after 4 years of abject failure to progress consistently, for people to still not appreciate Poch, to still not appreciate why things turned sour, it is ridiculous to me that people still mention the underperforming final period as an argument to diminish the man's managerial ability.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Well for one, it would be nice to not have to go through ANOTHER new manager search, and not have the possibility of us watching the likes of Sanchez play for us again or Winks and Ndombele return with a clean slate under whoever that manager might be.

But this has been discussed ad infinitum already anyway.

But he's not staying beyond the end of the season anyway at this stage

So we have to do all that anyway

 

[jurgen11]

Got to a very strange point where i'd take Europa league because we have a bit more of a chance of winning it...although Levy would ensure thats sucked out of the player to focus on the league...

We have no chance of winning it and no chance of finishing 4th

 

[jimbo]

Ok, sorry, but i don't see how any of that is Conte's fault. He didn't decide what Levy would pay him at the end of the day. I fail to see how he's doing us a favour by being our coach.

I find it similarly confusing to you, but I think it's about the way he speaks and conducts himself in pressers - about wanting to change the club into winners and how we don't have a record of success etc. That and the not signing a new contract, holding the club to ransom sort of thing.

Fair to say it's not going well, but I don't think a lack of desire is something that be levelled at him personally, but people are set in their opinions now and the 'favour' thing is just part of that narrative.

 

[Harrier]

I've seen this said more frequently recently, and it was said with Jose as well, but I don't understand it. What is it based off?

I should imagine it’s based on their demeanour and the way they carried themselves in front of the media.

 

[The Doc]

How about a narrative of we have lost 9 of 26 games.
That is more than a third of our league games.
Lets ignore that too.

We’re 4th. With 2/3 of the season gone. That is the only relevant fact. What’s your point?

 

[southlondonyiddo]

Ok, sorry, but i don't see how any of that is Conte's fault. He didn't decide what Levy would pay him at the end of the day. I fail to see how he's doing us a favour by being our coach.

Nobody is blaming Conte

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Ok, sorry, but i don't see how any of that is Conte's fault. He didn't decide what Levy would pay him at the end of the day. I fail to see how he's doing us a favour by being our coach.

I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again, there is a bad infatuation on here of expecting the best from those who are paid the most like the amount they’re paid is a guarantee of their performance when it’s actually a reflection of their worth and these two things are not mutually exclusive.

Barcelona for example, paid £150 million+ for Coutinho who ultimately was as useful to them as a paper weight.

Money spent does not equal a specific performance, but it’s just another stick to beat Conte with so hell why not use it.

 

[mil1lion]

Well two wins without our manager doesn't entirely convince me that the manager is doing the right thing when he is here!

I've said elsewhere that the City game was probably our best performance of the season.

But one good performance...and it really hasn't been much more than that at all this season...shouldn't save a manager.

I also agree that results are what matters. And 9 losses out of 26 in the league whilst also meekly dropping out of each cup isn't good enough.

But there's no point talking about number of losses without number of wins and where we are in the table. Bottom line is we are 4th and you can't sack a manager for that. I could understand if we had a squad that should challenge for a title but we don't. In fact we're still overachieving with the squad we have. We sacked Jose because 4th was out of reach and we were at risk of failing to qualify for Europe altogether. That isn't the case at this time at least so I don't see how we can sack the manager. Top 4 is the best we can hope for with this squad and that in itself is overachieving. As long as we still have that in site I can't see any reason to change manager. If it slips away then fair enough.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Nobody is blaming Conte

It’s literally brought up all the time how he’s on £15 million a season and therefore is expected to be delivering much much more.

 

[Joshua shepherd]

Thanks to Kane mostly…

Thanks to Kane, in spite of Dier. Thanks to Bentancur, in spite of Lloris.

There’s a hundred ways you can look at it, Conte has a team that yes, can rely on Kane for goals but also relies on Dier/Davies/Lloris to play out from the back, relies on Hoj and now Skipp to transition from defence into attack.

Some aspects of our team are good enough, other aspects aren’t.

Conte isn’t the only reason we’re playing in this dull manner, we’ve seen this same style of slow, passive, lack of aggression football from three permanent managers prior to him, one of which gave us the best times we’ve had in years so don’t use the excuse that they were all defensive managers.

If you’re willing to overlook the players limitations then you’re blind to the problems within the team.

 

[Styopa]

It’s literally brought up all the time how he’s on £15 million a season and therefore is expected to be delivering much much more.

But that's the nature of the beast, no?

People naturally expect more from someone who is being paid an elite-level salary.

With elite-level salaries come certain expectations and additional scrutiny.

This is surely the case in most walks of life?