Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[SaiboT]

Thanks to Kane, in spite of Dier. Thanks to Bentancur, in spite of Lloris.

There’s a hundred ways you can look at it, Conte has a team that yes, can rely on Kane for goals but also relies on Dier/Davies/Lloris to play out from the back, relies on Hoj and now Skipp to transition from defence into attack.

Some aspects of our team are good enough, other aspects aren’t.

Conte isn’t the only reason we’re playing in this dull manner, we’ve seen this same style of slow, passive, lack of aggression football from three permanent managers prior to him, one of which gave us the best times we’ve had in years so don’t use the excuse that they were all defensive managers.

If you’re willing to overlook the players limitations then you’re blind to the problems within the team.

Well i was just pointing out the facts that Conte isn’t the reason we are 4th at the moment and that he is indeed sackable for his inability to change tactics and so on.

 

[spurs mental]

In what world Jose has managed to keep us around the CL places?

We were literally top of the league a week before Christmas. We were 14th when he took over and had an outside chance that season or finishing top 4 but the club was a mess. He was sacked when we were still within touching distance of top 4, again with an outside chance.

imagine we get through and we draw bayern Psg or real could end up likE when we last played Bayern in the CL and embarrassing battering

Imagine, and people are clamouring for the return of the coach that was in charge that night.

 

[THE SPURSBOY]

Imagine we get through and draw Benfica, Dortmund or Inter. Could get to the Semi final.

C'ant see us beating any of them tbf

 

[THE SPURSBOY]

We were literally top of the league a week before Christmas. We were 14th when he took over and had an outside chance that season or finishing top 4 but the club was a mess. He was sacked when we were still within touching distance of top 4, again with an outside chance.

Imagine, and people are clamouring for the return of the coach that was in charge that night.

Imagine, and people are clamouring for the return of the coach that was in charge that night.

yeah very true

 

[The Doc]

We were literally top of the league a week before Christmas. We were 14th when he took over and had an outside chance that season or finishing top 4 but the club was a mess. He was sacked when we were still within touching distance of top 4, again with an outside chance.

Imagine, and people are clamouring for the return of the coach that was in charge that night.

That would be epic for the lols. Poch back in charge. His first CL game against Bayern at the THS. 2:7 again. That would be peak Spurs. Anything else would just be meh. And I love Poch.

 

[TOLBINY]

For the talk of 15m a season he has already paid for himself by qualifying for CL and getting us out the group stage. We're on course for more European football next season too. Its just the brand of football is having an impact on how people judge him. If we were in the same position while playing exciting football he wouldn't get nearly us much criticism. Results wise he's earning his money having us punch above our weight a bit.

I broadly agree with this - but if Chelsea and Liverpool were performing to their usual standards we'd be 6th
The other issue is the fact that after 16 months in charge he has not been able to get this group to execute the 3-4-3 wing back system very well or perform well for a full 90 minutes (give or take brief periods) and I think he should have realised a while ago the limitations in the squad and explored other options - he used 5-3-2 away at Utd and Brighton, but again that is a defensive set up.
I can take defeats to Utd, City, Liverpool and as much as it hurts, Woolwich, but losing at home to Newcastle and Villa and away to Leicester and Wolves is a bit much - not that I expect us to win all those games, but to lose ALL 4 in the space of 14 matches is shameful.

 

[Styopa]

We were literally top of the league a week before Christmas. We were 14th when he took over and had an outside chance that season or finishing top 4 but the club was a mess. He was sacked when we were still within touching distance of top 4, again with an outside chance.

We were top of the league from our ninth to our twelfth match in Mourinho's second season. (we took over from Leicester who were top after eight matches). By match fourteen, we were already down to sixth place. Broadly speaking, we were 'around' the Champions League places, but I don't think we were ever higher than fifth from match fourteen onwards. We were as low as eighth position by match twenty-eight. By the time we sacked him we were pretty much where we had been for most of the previous eighteen or nineteen matches, about five or six points off the top four.

 

[spurs mental]

We were top of the league from our ninth to our twelfth match in Mourinho's second season. (we took over from Leicester who were top after eight matches). By match fourteen, we were already down to sixth place. Broadly speaking, we were 'around' the Champions League places, but I don't think we were ever higher than fifth from match fourteen onwards. We were as low as eighth position by match twenty-eight. By the time we sacked him we were pretty much where we had been for most of the previous eighteen or nineteen matches, about five or six points off the top four.

We were still around or there abouts though. I dont know why I had in my head that were top for longer though. Good times

 

[H-SF]

Thanks to Kane, in spite of Dier. Thanks to Bentancur, in spite of Lloris.

There’s a hundred ways you can look at it, Conte has a team that yes, can rely on Kane for goals but also relies on Dier/Davies/Lloris to play out from the back, relies on Hoj and now Skipp to transition from defence into attack.

Some aspects of our team are good enough, other aspects aren’t.

Conte isn’t the only reason we’re playing in this dull manner, we’ve seen this same style of slow, passive, lack of aggression football from three permanent managers prior to him, one of which gave us the best times we’ve had in years so don’t use the excuse that they were all defensive managers.

If you’re willing to overlook the players limitations then you’re blind to the problems within the team.

Conte literally gave Lloris a new deal and has praised him incessantly in the media? By all accounts he really rates Dier too. He isn't accountable for their poor performances but he's the one that (wrongly, clearly) put his faith in them. We should have signed a GK last summer.

 

[rossdapep]

Something felt off from the start of the 18/19 season, though.

We were getting results, but there was a marked drop in performance, and it felt like we were running on fumes. Even results like the 3-0 win against United were actually very disjointed, our football was inconsistent, and there was a genuine sense that the wheels were about to come off even though we were oddly high up in the table until about January.

Just looking back at the results really doesn't tell the whole story.

Yeah. We hadn't signed a player in the summer window, that's what the issue was.

It told everyone that there was no ambition. It then told those comfortable that they wouldn't be dropped.

The game we lost against Watford typified that season IMO.

A good 60 minutes and where we would go stronger later on in the game, we actually faltered once the opposition made changes.

We started with Vorm in goal, Davies and Trippier as wing backs, Lucas and Kane up top.

This is who was on the bench.
Rose
Winks
Wanyama
Dier
Walker Peters
Llorente
Gazzanigga

For a team that had been pushing for titles how the hell can that be acceptable??

Imagine being Kane or Poch through that??

Poch has no real quality options to bring on and change it, Kane has no quality around him to motivate.

If we didn't start well in games we struggled, which was the opposite of a Poch team.

But looking at that, you can see how that came about

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Yeah. I also don't see us gaining much by doing it now. At the moment, we're chugging along just about okay in the league. We still have a shot at the top four because the other teams are similarly inconsistent. We also have many winnable games coming up, so we could soon go on a good run. The Milan game doesn't seem particularly relevant because who expects us to go much further in the Champions League anyway?

As you say, maybe the players have already downed tools, so Levy may be forced to act. Alternatively, maybe Conte himself has had enough of it, in which case both parties may agree on an exit. But otherwise, I expect him to stay until the end of the season.

Everything you say i agree with but at this point im fairly certain the most illogical choice will be the choice that Levy makes.

 

[Joshua shepherd]

Conte literally gave Lloris a new deal and has praised him incessantly in the media? By all accounts he really rates Dier too. He isn't accountable for their poor performances but he's the one that (wrongly, clearly) put his faith in them. We should have signed a GK last summer.

If you really believe that Conte came in, took a look at Dier, and said this is the guy I need for the CCB role to see tottenham into the future, then that’s your prerogative.

Personally I don’t believe that for a minute.

Re: Lloris, you’re right, his performances aren’t on Conte, it’s unfortunate but he’s not to blame for the mid season downfall of Lloris.

I think when we had so many areas to address a keeper was seen as something we could push down the road given that Lloris has been consistently good for us over the past 10 years.

 

[mil1lion]

I broadly agree with this - but if Chelsea and Liverpool were performing to their usual standards we'd be 6th
The other issue is the fact that after 16 months in charge he has not been able to get this group to execute the 3-4-3 wing back system very well or perform well for a full 90 minutes (give or take brief periods) and I think he should have realised a while ago the limitations in the squad and explored other options - he used 5-3-2 away at Utd and Brighton, but again that is a defensive set up.
I can take defeats to Utd, City, Liverpool and as much as it hurts, Woolwich, but losing at home to Newcastle and Villa and away to Leicester and Wolves is a bit much - not that I expect us to win all those games, but to lose ALL 4 in the space of 14 matches is shameful.

Would people please stop with this nonsense about "if Liverpool and Chelsea played to their standards" , its absolute pointless and irrelevant. Neither are we. Besides they're better than us so maybe 6th is where we should be given our squad quality but we're 4th and it's still talked about with hypothetical rubbish. Most teams are dropping points this season and we're no different but we're still doing better than most out of it.

 

[TPdYID]

C'ant see us beating any of them tbf

Aren’t you just a little ray of sunshine.

 

[spursfast]

Agree. I don’t think he’ll be gone until the summer. If not the summer we’ll wait for him to fuck up the league campaign and then fire the bullet after the horse has bolted. Let’s remember though there is still a lot of football to be played and if we are down to one game a week soon then those are the conditions Conte usually excels in. So I don’t think top four is beyond us at all.

so we'll get more points than Liverpool

 

[mil1lion]

If you really believe that Conte came in, took a look at Dier, and said this is the guy I need for the CCB role to see tottenham into the future, then that’s your prerogative.

Personally I don’t believe that for a minute.

Re: Lloris, you’re right, his performances aren’t on Conte, it’s unfortunate but he’s not to blame for the mid season downfall of Lloris.

I think when we had so many areas to address a keeper was seen as something we could push down the road given that Lloris has been consistently good for us over the past 10 years.

I think people misconstrue how Conte feels about certain players. Dier is a good example of this. We can talk about wanting to upgrade him on here but he's still one of our best centre backs. Conte has to work with what he has and if we can't get a top centre back he has to work with Dier. He has to make him feel confident and back him because he is first choice. That doesn't mean he wouldn't jump at the chance for a top class replacement. It just means like Jose before him he has to work with what he has available. Maybe people are expecting him to publicly out his own players and say how rubbish they are and how desperate he is to replace them? Even of he gets a top centre back he will keep Dier and keep praising him. That way he's more likely to perform when called upon and offer competition for the new guy. That's what quality coaches do.

 

[Spursfan1414]

There is a cultish anti-Conte movement. They are literally incapable of rational thought where Conte is concerned, just overly obsessed with how "shit" our football is and wanting a "progressive project manager" in.

Its been a mixed season imo. Some utterly turgid and horrendous football mixed in with good results (Man City, Chelsea). Some great young players being showcased (Sarr and Skipp) and some garbage experienced players too (Perisic, Sanchez.)

I have been particularly unimpressed by Conte's in-game management this season, especially the lack of subs (same as I was under Poch tbf) and his stubbornness around formation and some of his selections have driven me crazy. However, it would be churlish to say he "hasn't improved any players"......Dier was fantastic at the end of last season, Kulu and Bentancur were a revelation, Sarr, Skipp and much maligned Emerson have been brilliant at times this season. As I say, overall a mixed bag.

I don't think a slavish, cultish obsession to any manager is healthy or indeed necessary.

Some of those names you've listed as being improved by Conte are pretty desperate reaches.

Sarr hasn't even played 2 full matches worth of PL football and we're saying Conte has improved him, based on what exactly? He hadn't even played for us prior to Conte, what are you comparing to?

What's the case for saying he's improved Skipp? All that's happened is he's playing more because we've had an injury crisis + because he's sorted his own injury. What's he gotten better at, what can he do now that he couldn't before Conte was here? He's always been a fantastic talent and he's played really well for us in first team games many times prior to Conte, look at the start of last season, he was a starter for Nuno in pretty much every game.

Eric Dier. I mean really? He was fantastic under Mourinho too for a few months, he's now probably the nailed on starter that fans are most keen to see replaced. Where's the improvement?

Emerson. Yeah he's playing better than he was but that's because he's now playing a role that isn't completely unsuitable for him. He was never been an attacking wingback, he's always been better at defending + progressing the ball through the middle 3rd of the pitch and absolutely dreadful in the final third. It shouldn't have taken a year of watching him put in crap cross after crap cross to change his role, in fact he never should've had a role as one our main attacking outlets to begin with. It's the equivalent of playing Sanchez as a creative midfielder for a year and then expecting praise for "improving him" when you finally move him back to CB (or even better, the bench). Put Emerson back in the role Conte had him playing last year and he'd look just as terrible as he did then.

I'm sure I'll be accused of being in the "anti-Conte cult" for taking this view but I cannot see the case for this at all, especially in the case of Dier, Sarr and Skipp.

 

[Styopa]

We were still around or there abouts though. I dont know why I had in my head that were top for longer though. Good times

I think the relatively brief moment we spent at the top felt significant because it coincided with home victories against Arsenal and Man City. It felt like we were on the cusp of something because there was still a considerable aura about Mourinho. But then it all went downhill fairly rapidly. We were top after twelve but lost seven times in the next twelve matches.

It's not the same with Conte, but it does feel somewhat similar. We had that period last year where it felt like we were on the cusp of something. But we just haven't got going this season. Sure, we're there or there abouts the Champions League places, but to me, it feels like we're stagnating as a club. You don't hire Conte to be there or there abouts the Champions League places.

 

[spurs mental]

It's not the same with Conte, but it does feel somewhat similar. We had that period last year where it felt like we were on the cusp of something. But we just haven't got going this season. Sure, we're there or there about the Champions League places, but to me, it feels like we're stagnating as a club. You don't hire Conte to be there or there about the Champions League places.

That's more on Levy than on Conte though. Especially the bit in bold.

 

[spursfan77]

If levy wants the Poch appointment to take the heat off him (as has been mooted by everyone for the last 6 months) then he doesn’t sack Conte during the season and bring Poch in now. He waits and sees if the scum win the league and Kane agitates for a move. Both those things happen, the fanbase will rightly be as toxic as it’s ever been. Even if we get fourth it won’t mask those two things happening. So his last roll of the dice will to bring Poch in then to placate some of the fanbase. Doing it during the season leaves him with no dice to roll at all.