Financial Fair Play (general thread)

[For the love of Spurs]

Step on the toes of the oil and gas countries at a time of global instability? Never gonna happen.

this is where I see the issue. I expect City to be found guilty of a lot of charges, rumour was ex City employees where helping the investigation as they know where the bodies are hidden.

However once the independent commission finds City guilty of say 50 charges and recommends league expulsion at a minimum (which would be consistent with Everton get 10 points deducted for 1 far more minor charge).

I could then see huge political pressure from Abu Dabai on the U.K. government to intervene and protect City from the Premier League and independent commission to commute it to far lesser sentence.

This has always been the hidden problem with government owned football clubs. They have protectors and influencers on a scale other teams do not. This will then cause a huge crisis in the game as the rest of the premier league teams will end up in revolt as it becomes clear one team plays by different rules.

 

[TheHodFather]

this is where I see the issue. I expect City to be found guilty of a lot of charges, rumour was ex City employees where helping the investigation as they know where the bodies are hidden.

However once the independent commission finds City guilty of say 50 charges and recommends league expulsion at a minimum (which would be consistent with Everton get 10 points deducted for 1 far more minor charge).

I could then see huge political pressure from Abu Dabai on the U.K. government to intervene and protect City from the Premier League and independent commission to commute it to far lesser sentence.

This has always been the hidden problem with government owned football clubs. They have protectors and influencers on a scale other teams do not. This will then cause a huge crisis in the game as the rest of the premier league teams will end up in revolt as it becomes clear one team plays by different rules.

Maybe also a problem with government involvement in football administration and regulation? I seem to be in a minority but personally I'm quite wary of the "independent football regulator" for exactly that reason.

 

[Yid-ol]

Speaking to a City fan at my work, he says he has seen it being talked about that city's lawyers have info on most of the top clubs (and some more) in the Premier League that shows that other clubs have been doing the same dodgy sponsor ship deals as city. No idea if true or not, but could open a whole can of worms if they drag other clubs down with them!

 

[For the love of Spurs]

Speaking to a City fan at my work, he says he has seen it being talked about that city's lawyers have info on most of the top clubs (and some more) in the Premier League that shows that other clubs have been doing the same dodgy sponsor ship deals as city. No idea if true or not, but could open a whole can of worms if they drag other clubs down with them!

Sadly needs to happen. You can’t have corruption in the game. We can’t continue with a dirty product.

 

[superted4]

Would love a Swiss rambler write up on the overall state on each club.

just want to see in writing how well we are ran and how much we can really take advantage in the next few years

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Speaking to a City fan at my work, he says he has seen it being talked about that city's lawyers have info on most of the top clubs (and some more) in the Premier League that shows that other clubs have been doing the same dodgy sponsor ship deals as city. No idea if true or not, but could open a whole can of worms if they drag other clubs down with them!

Might be this has something to do with it,

Premier League betting sponsors: closed doors and companies within companies | FT Film

The FT investigates the mystery owners behind gambling brands that sponsor top flight football clubs, uncovering a global network of shell companies and 'front' organisations

www.ft.com

 

[GutBucket]

Roma needs to generate 60m€ before 30th of June.

Roma required to generate €60 million in revenue and capital gains before 30 June

Roma continue to face a very difficult situation imposed by the restrictive measures of the UEFA Settlement Agreement the club signed a few years ago....

romapress.net

 

[rabbikeane]

Lorenzo Pellegrini maybe?

 

[mabolsa_ritchey]

I don’t believe City ‘won’. They took it to CAS who threw it out on a timescale technicality. So whilst it was never upheld they were never proven innocent.

This. And from recollection City absolutely refused to assist in any way with providing any kind of mitigating evidence, hence the timescale breach. This is exactly the kind of loophole they’ll be trying to exploit again as they clearly will not be able to provide anything to help their cause for all 115 charges.

 

[theShiznit]

Maybe City are going the Trump route of delaying all the charges until they're president then pardoning themselves...

I know it's not the same but has anyone seen Pep and Infantino in the same room (they probably have but that was a deepfake )

 

[Tucker]

this is where I see the issue. I expect City to be found guilty of a lot of charges, rumour was ex City employees where helping the investigation as they know where the bodies are hidden.

However once the independent commission finds City guilty of say 50 charges and recommends league expulsion at a minimum (which would be consistent with Everton get 10 points deducted for 1 far more minor charge).

I could then see huge political pressure from Abu Dabai on the U.K. government to intervene and protect City from the Premier League and independent commission to commute it to far lesser sentence.

This has always been the hidden problem with government owned football clubs. They have protectors and influencers on a scale other teams do not. This will then cause a huge crisis in the game as the rest of the premier league teams will end up in revolt as it becomes clear one team plays by different rules.

This is spot on. We already know Boris Johnson stepped in to ensure the Saudi Newcastle bid was rubber stamped.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Any legal aces out there to go through these documents and find any evidence, in the UEFA case against Man City, the Mancini era was time barred but not so in the PL case..

https://cdn.prod.www.spiegel.de/media/592f2b46-96b2-4e64-9217-9a17ae26f38b/RM.pdf

PS Wonder how much Harry Redknapp was being paid at Spurs in 2009, seems a pretty low basic salary for Mancini but very big bonuses

 

[Rocksuperstar]

Just catching up with some of the details - so the Everton breach is due to interest rates rising on the commitments they've already made on the new stadium? So Everton are being punished because of a factor completely outside of their control (arguably could've been predicted to some extent but still...), while teams that have directly and knowingly subverted the rules to bring in players and pay wages - directly affecting the outcome of matches and eventually the league - How is this comparable? How is that fair in any way?

Forest is just mental, we all knew they were looking sus when they signed twelfty dozen players in a month, but Everton I feel really sorry for right now.

 

[Tucker]

Just catching up with some of the details - so the Everton breach is due to interest rates rising on the commitments they've already made on the new stadium? So Everton are being punished because of a factor completely outside of their control (arguably could've been predicted to some extent but still...), while teams that have directly and knowingly subverted the rules to bring in players and pay wages - directly affecting the outcome of matches and eventually the league - How is this comparable? How is that fair in any way?

Forest is just mental, we all knew they were looking sus when they signed twelfty dozen players in a month, but Everton I feel really sorry for right now.

Very harsh on Everton by the sounds of it.

 

[superted4]

In Evertons case i'm sure I read that it was clear what the loans were been used for Everton are saying the stadium, the books are leaning towards propping up the club as its a shitshow!

 

[razor1981]

Just catching up with some of the details - so the Everton breach is due to interest rates rising on the commitments they've already made on the new stadium? So Everton are being punished because of a factor completely outside of their control (arguably could've been predicted to some extent but still...), while teams that have directly and knowingly subverted the rules to bring in players and pay wages - directly affecting the outcome of matches and eventually the league - How is this comparable? How is that fair in any way?

Forest is just mental, we all knew they were looking sus when they signed twelfty dozen players in a month, but Everton I feel really sorry for right now.

Any spending which can be genuinely attributed to the stadium development can be excluded from the PSR calculation.

The Premier League initially allowed Everton to exclude interest payments on some commercial loans (that the club claimed were taken out to cover stadium planning costs), but later changed their stance when it came to light that restrictions imposed by the lenders on the use of the loans meant that they could not have been used for those purposes.

Everton then changed their story and said that although the loans were not directly related to the stadium, they would have been able to pay them off if they were not in the process of building a stadium - and therefore believed that the interest payments should be deducted from the calculations.

The PL (and subsequently the independent commission) felt that this was a bit too much of a stretch - and criticised Everton for deliberately trying to mislead them.

 

[beats1]

The reason the Everton case has been dealt with much faster than the City one is because Everton admitted to the charges and City have not. Pleading guilty means there is no need for either side to build a case and with 100+ charges it's clearly going to be much more complicated, and time consuming.

That's been taken out of context.

Everton haven't admitted to the charge, they are disputing the charge, the problem for them their charges are based on the numbers they submitted. The numbers aren't in dispute but that isn't them admitting the charge.

Man City again aren't cooperating as he charges are more complex and based on the source of funds not the numbers they are submitting

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Just catching up with some of the details - so the Everton breach is due to interest rates rising on the commitments they've already made on the new stadium? So Everton are being punished because of a factor completely outside of their control (arguably could've been predicted to some extent but still...), while teams that have directly and knowingly subverted the rules to bring in players and pay wages - directly affecting the outcome of matches and eventually the league - How is this comparable? How is that fair in any way?

Forest is just mental, we all knew they were looking sus when they signed twelfty dozen players in a month, but Everton I feel really sorry for right now.

If only we had paid 80m for Richarlison they would have been ok. Bunch of dipsticks running a footballl club. .

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Everton appeal tomorrow , as with other appeals like Sheffield Wednesday and Juve expect a reduction in the points deducted total but if it is removed completely and replaced with a fine or transfer ban then FFP/PSR is just a waste of time as clubs will continue to overspend and be happy to accept fines etc.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

I don't understand why there are charges being leveled against clubs and punishment dished out when City are still on the table. Any punishment they will be handed won't affect this season, or any of the seasons in which the offenses occurred, but Everton and Forest are expected to swallow this and potentially lose millions when relegated, while City continue to operate as if nothing is going on. And now that they know that they can overwhelm the system and that no punishment is coming their way until these cases are ALL investigated, they can continue to pile on knowing that it just buys them more time.

It's a joke, it really is. If I was responsible for a club who were under the microscope right now, surely the lawyers have a case to demand fair treatment compared to other teams and a stay of several years between offense committed and punishment being meted out, to give them a chance to put in place the necessary measures to limit the impact.

City are fucking cheats to a degree that has broken the process, that should warrant an even stronger, immediate response, not leave them alone until every minute, complicated detail has been poured over, appealed, poured over again, disputed and fought in court...

In the long run I suspect that the City brass are hoping that the punishment will be retrospective, that losing titles that they've already celebrated and benefited from financially - no impact at all. Even if they are told they need to pay back the winnings difference from first place to wherever they ended up, that's not even going to dent them.