FORMER Manager Watch: Nuno Espírito Santo

[makeveli]

Looked clueless how can u now make a sub , bring players on that make them sit back we invited them on made them look like Barca , was so easy to see

 

[tobi]

We fielded 3 holding midfielders because we dont have better choices. NDom is a no-go given lack of fitness, and GLC wasn't ready.

He chose to go away from a midfield three and reposition Dele, he didn't have to do that.

This squad is not capable of playing possession-based football at PL level; so it can't play pro-actively. Neither Moura nor Bergwin are suited for that either. They like counter-attacking and play well vertically. Recyling possession is not their thing.

I disagree, Bielsa got a Championship squad playing possession football in the league, a good coach with those beliefs can do it.

If I'm honest the only upfront person I would trust with the ball is Kane.

You talk as if teams can just switch from plan A to plan B; that's only workable if you have top-class personnel for each of those plans. This may apply to the big teams but clearly not for us; and it's been the same from Poch onwards.

We are better suited to playing against the likes of Chelsea, so I think we might actually get a better result against them than against Palace.

As for Nuno, it's obvious what he is about. He has already improved our fitness and defence. I think this is as far as he can take us, and I'm ok with that. The fact of the matter is until the club is willing to splash out like the other big teams, we wont get good enough players to execute different game plans, so we just need to play the best we can with what we've got.

The fitness has definitely improved, the defence has to some degree but some form of control is needed asap.

 

[ultimateloner]

We won't be winning anything massive any time soon. Not with the likes of City, Chelsea, United, and continentally, PSG.

Therefore, I'd at least like to enjoy watching us play. I haven't enjoyed any match this season since the city match. We seem fitter and tougher (which City's midfield didn't like), but lack a clear attacking plan when we have the ball in their half for sustained periods.

I gave Mourinho over a year before I realized it wasn't working. I won't make that same mistake again. Fix up or fuck off, and that applies to Levy too.

It's not Nuno's fault. He has inherited a squad that is optimal in counter-attacking and doesn't have the ability to play in any other way at PL level.

If he asks them to play any other way it would just be worse.

The fact of the matter is our board played money-ball so we ended up with alot of situational players (or 1-trick ponies); athletic but non-technical players (Moura/Bergwin, Sissoko in the past etc), tehnical but narrow players (Hojberg, GLC etc). Our only 'complete' footballer is Kane.

Money-ball no longer works at the high-end of the PL and it's getting even worse, with the elite clubs buying up the absolute best.

 

[Franchise60]

When asked about the lack of creativity yesterday. He completely agreed. That says a lot. Mourinho was blinded to any criticism.

Nuno also said that we controlled the first half, which says a lot more.

He also seemed to put the blame on the performance/execution rather than the set-up, which was very Mourinho like. As was the football.

 

[bigpalacios]

That's all you took from my post? Lol

No but that was the only thing I wanted to reply to LOL

 

[SuperSpurs69]

If he didn’t want to come, it’s because we didn’t make a good enough offer.

Not necessarily. He might have felt that he wasn't really wanted given he was way down on the list.

The whole Kane saga probably had a hand in it too.

Maybe he thought he wouldn't get enough time to implement things, and let's be honest, we all know levy wants champions league football every season.

 

[ultimateloner]

He chose to go away from a midfield three and reposition Dele, he didn't have to do that.

He didn't; he could have played Gil in Son's position. However in this instance I think its reasonable to trust the coach's judgement because the rationale is straightforward; Gil is 18, new to the country and PL, whereas Winks + Dele (because it's Dele>Son, Winks> Dele) are more proven in PL. There is a high chance that Gil just isn't ready.

I disagree, Bielsa got a Championship squad playing possession football in the league, a good coach with those beliefs can do it.

They have an entire recruitment policy geared towards 'high fitness/high intensity + spread the space' for thier particular game-plan, which can yield big returns or big losses. They haven't had a single clean sheet so far and have lost big twice, and also failed to win against Burnley.

That's not to say that I dont like Leeds. I do. They are a revelation. But I think you need consistency from board level right down to coach level for that; in other words there needs to be 'trust' and 'buy-in' from both parties. I dont think we are built like that; we have a record of ditching coaches, and recruitment seems to be driven from Levy/DoF level.

And also Leeds can't play another way (to be 'tight' like us); so this hammers in my point that for most teams, you only have personnel who can execute 1 game plan optimally.

The fitness has definitely improved, the defence has to some degree but some form of control is needed asap.

I agree with this but my expectation is that we wont get better control because the current starters dont have it in them, and the coach is unlikely to last long enough to get them to learn. It's kind of like asking Winks to become more incisive in his passing; he simply doesn't have the phys and technical qualities in him for it at PL level (like Kovacic).

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

So people are in here writing Nuno off after losing one match? I dunno why I’m surprised tbh.

Mate most of us didn’t want him in the first place and have explained our reservations based on our performances across the 4 matches and Nuno’s style of play at his previous clubs not just due to ‘one loss’. He’s a budget nice guy Mouriniho.

What have you seen so far in the performances that give you hope that he will be successful with us and that we will actually enjoy watching the football he will serve up this season?

 

[DiVaio]

The depth of the squad is so devastatingly average at the moment. The fact that people are calling for Gil - a kid, and Ndombele, - someone who clearly doesn’t want to be here and seemingly is completely unfit, as our saviours is worrying.

I’m not sure that Nuno is the right guy but we really haven’t given him the attacking weapons to do much. It’s so frustrating.

This is pretty bad argument?
Yesterday we were missing 6 senior players, except Sessegnon all of them realistically could start this game. 2 of centerbacks weren't available and when Dier was subbed off we still had option to bring Rodon who showed that he has.
Gil is a kid but we bought him for 25m + Lamela and he was one of the most creative player last season in La Liga playing for the worst team in the league.
Ndombele - someone who supposedly doesn't want to be here would only leave Spurs for top10 clubs in the world, we bought him for 60m and is just a very good player.

Only four other clubs in Premier League has definitely better depth than us.

 

[dontcallme]

Potter turned us down didn't he.

Got a source for that? I don't remember anything about that.

 

[belsunz]

Nuno won't get us playing free flowing football or top four the situation and atmosphere around the club remains sterile, boring and going nowhere.

Going nowhere = going downhill. We are regressing and after the Jose clusterfuck Levy needed to get the appointment right. We finally managed to establish ourself as a CL side during the Poch era. That status is already gone and we are at serious risk of even regressing further - which will impact the calibre of manager we’ll be able to attract after Jose 2.0 has left the building…

 

[tobi]

He didn't; he could have played Gil in Son's position. However in this instance I think its reasonable to trust the coach's judgement because the rationale is straightforward; Gil is 18, new to the country and PL, whereas Winks + Dele (because it's Dele>Son, Winks> Dele) are more proven in PL. There is a high chance that Gil just isn't ready.

Age is irrelevant, if you're good enough, you're old enough.

Gill has key attributes that can help the team now, he isn't injured and two starters in his position aren't available, don't hold him back.

They have an entire recruitment policy geared towards 'high fitness/high intensity + spread the space' for thier particular game-plan, which can yield big returns or big losses. They haven't had a single clean sheet so far and have lost big twice, and also failed to win against Burnley.

That's not to say that I dont like Leeds. I do. They are a revelation. But I think you need consistency from board level right down to coach level for that; in other words there needs to be 'trust' and 'buy-in' from both parties. I dont think we are built like that; we have a record of ditching coaches, and recruitment seems to be driven from Levy/DoF level.

And also Leeds can't play another way (to be 'tight' like us); so this hammers in my point that for most teams, you only have personnel who can execute 1 game plan optimally.

I agree with this but my expectation is that we wont get better control because the current starters dont have it in them, and the coach is unlikely to last long enough to get them to learn. It's kind of like asking Winks to become more incisive in his passing; he simply doesn't have the phys and technical qualities in him for it at PL level (like Kovacic).

Let's agree to disagree.

 

[Locotoro]

Have you watched the games this seasons. We deserved to lose to Wolves and Watford. The performances have been poor and having 9 points is more luck than anything

You do know that Nuno is a Football manager not a f*cking wizard.

He's had about 2 months with this club during which half the players haven't been there and every turn he's met with media frenzy about this player leaving that one not being in favour and players going to internationals without permission.

The first responsibility of a good manager is to creat a solid defence. Poch did the same, when he came.

So yes, I've watched every game we've played. Was it swashbuckling attack? No. Am I worried at this extremely early stage? No.

The guy needs to have time with the players. Time to get his philosophy into the players, so they understand how he wants them to attack, how to defend, how to circulate the ball, which areas to exploit. Time for him to work out which players can do what, who can be relied upon, who will give the team the extra yard of space, who will run that extra yard and put in that tackle. This isn't a game of Football Manager where you can download tactics and win every game. This is a process that will take time.

Criticise the performance all you like but to say the manager should be sacked reflects so poorly on us as a fanbase

 

[mill]

You do know that Nuno is a Football manager not a f*cking wizard.

He's had about 2 months with this club during which half the players haven't been there and every turn he's met with media frenzy about this player leaving that one not being in favour and players going to internationals without permission.

The first responsibility of a good manager is to creat a solid defence. Poch did the same, when he came.

So yes, I've watched every game we've played. Was it swashbuckling attack? No. Am I worried at this extremely early stage? No.

The guy needs to have time with the players. Time to get his philosophy into the players, so they understand how he wants them to attack, how to defend, how to circulate the ball, which areas to exploit. Time for him to work out which players can do what, who can be relied upon, who will give the team the extra yard of space, who will run that extra yard and put in that tackle. This isn't a game of Football Manager where you can download tactics and win every game. This is a process that will take time.

Criticise the performance all you like but to say the manager should be sacked reflects so poorly on us as a fanbase

He should never have been appointed tbh

 

[nedley]

For those wanting him out do you remember the shambles of a managerial hunt in the summer?

Imagine that again but mid season.

Managers will keep coming and going in failure until the anger and frustration is properly aimed at the ones in real power.

Who's wanting him out?

Nobody is saying that.

 

[panoma]

From Wolves forums. Good for them I guess. What was even the point in sacking Mou if we were getting Nuno. Gonna be yet another long season...

 

[rossdapep]

You say it was skewed by the QPR game but Watford are just as bad but you can only play what is in front of you and all we could muster past them was one goal from a free kick which was a cross.

We also scored 2 up away at Sunderland who were a similar level side to C.Palace who we yesterday got absolutely battered by and had 2 shots all game.

You mention the games that weren’t so good and I’m certainly not saying it was all roses under potch in the early days but you’ve also missed out games in the same time period like the 3-1 home cup win vs forest where we played some lovely stuff, the 1-1 draw home to arsenal where we hassled and harried and pressed the shit out of them all game and attacked and dominated the game and were brave. We were not toothless and dreadful as you make out.

Added to that, Poch had got his Southampton side playing some high pressing beautifully entertaining attacking football so he had history of producing the exact style of play we as spurs fans crave, Nuno has not and never will produce that style of play, when asked about how he’ll produce the attacking football Levy mentioned the club wants, he replied saying that “our football will be solid”.

I don't remember the Forest game being like that at all to be honest.

We struggled until mason scored that screamer. I certainly recall thinking that we'd gone for the cheap option (coach wise). Gladly I was wrong about that.

There was also the Sheffield United semis where we pretty poor and a little bit lucky to have gotten out of that. There may have been little glimpses but it was certainly shown over more than 4 league games.
Which is why I think it's fair to wait a little longer.

If we get to December, are struggling and are seeing hardly any coherent attacking patterns and style then I'd agree that Nuno may not be the coach.

I do think we can get a little bit anal here if we start to compare exact game comparisons between the two and I don't see that Sunderland team as the same as this Palace team really.

I'm not comparing styles and haven't done either. I'm just suggesting a little patience.

Let's see if that performance and result makes Nuno change something. Let's at least give him the opportunity to do that.

It's counter productive to see here and want him out and say it's not gonna work out. I believe some are doing thay just so they can say "See, I told you".

I'm not interested in that. I just want to have a bit of patience before I want the guy out or start saying it's going to suck with him.

We all know the appointment wasn't the best one we could make at the time. And maybe he won't be able to do much with us. But I'd rather at least give him that chance first.

I'm much more annoyed with Levy and the board than I ever will be with Nuno. That's where the real problems lie.

 

[DiVaio]

Only saving grace is the 9 points (we could have had zero actually, since we could arguably have lost our first three games). We have to acknowledge football is a results game, but so far I haven’t been impressed with Nuno one bit. He seems a terrible miscast with his defensive play style (Joseball 2.0 without impact substitutions) and Levy’s comments about DNA are a mockery.

This stats are incorrect btw. Also with a little more of context this isn't as bad as it looks. We were horrible against Crystal Palace, but lol this is a massive overreaction.

We played pretty well against City. Against Wolves we had penalty in 9th min when they had one shot, a lot of low quality shots from Wolves and one very good chance for both of sides.. Against Watford we were better side and had better chances before Son goal, it didn't change after.
Two games that we had more xG than opponents and Lloris basically had one important save to do from Adama.

The football isn't fantastic to watch but from those 3 games we definitely deserved at least 6 points.

 

[rossdapep]

Potter turned us down didn't he.

'Turned us down' or 'refused to pay him out of his contract' ??

 

[rossdapep]

Not hiring Potter was a big mistake. He just wasn’t glamorous enough for people, but he’s a very good coach.

Everything about him screams "Future Tottenham coach". The problem is Arsenal may get there before us.

He was one of my top 3 picks in the summer but it became clear quite early we wouldn't go for him.