FORMER Manager Watch: Nuno Espírito Santo

[Goobers]

Every manager needs some time to make the team his. City were poor under Pep in his first year, Liverpool hardly pulled up trees under Klopp in year one. So what, we lost to Palace away with half of our team out. Every single one of us would have taken 9pts from our opening 4 matches before the season started.

Well I thought 10 from our first 6 would be a good foundation. I wasn't expecting the three clean sheets at the start and I certainly wasn't thinking about getting pounded at Palace. We're on a journey and I think they'll be a lot of ups and downs. I really do hope that we look resilient against Chelsea and then look to do one over at the Emirate although our record there is bloody awful ...

 

[rossdapep]

The discrepancy between Levy's statement about Nuno being the right man to revive Spurs' DNA, and what we're currently witnessing is just ... mind-boggling.

I think it can at least be explained what happened, even if

Levy made that statement, probably to get people on side and probably because he was being truthful.

At the same time..
We wanted Nagelsmann - not possible.
We wanted Rodgers - not possible
We wanted Ten Hag - not sure what happened but maybe he didn't impress Levy
We looked at Potter and coaches with similar style but they were deemed to much of a risk.

We then appointed Paratici, as we were having issues with finding a manager and Levy knew he needed to hand transfers over to someone else.

Paratici came in knowing that the defence needed major work. Therefore he needed to find a coach who wasn't known for being leaky.

Paratici's selection included the likes of Conte, Gattusso and others who he knew much better, so he probably wasn't keen on Potter and co.

Nuno became available and Paratici having extended some of his list, knew about Nuno and his time at Valencia, so put him forward.

Levy, knowing that he couldn't go back on his words to the fans, felt Nuno was too defensive and wasn't;t known for the type of football he'd promised.

Paratici then spent a good amount of time showing a portfolio and videos of Nuno's time at Valencia to convince him he could be an attack minded coach.

Levy had his arm twisted and then the objective was to feed the line about 'making us proud'

 

[spursfan77]

I really think our window wasnt good enough. We needed another centre back, central midfielder, attacking midfielder and striker on top of a full clean out. He’s not really been helped in that regard and he is basically keeping the seat warm for the next guy once we can sort out the squad. People need to realise that and the fact we won’t be a consistent champions league qualifying team for a while or at least until klopp leaves Liverpool or Guardiola leaves Man City and they are in transition. We just have to be ready to take advantage then.

 

[freeeki]

I assume people are thinking that Poch is unlikely to last more than 2 years at PSG. I mean if he doesn’t win the champions league this year then he’s pretty much a dead man walking.

If Poch can’t win the UCL with Neymar, Mbappe and Messi, then he isn’t going to win it with Spurs and should be nowhere near any top club again. Or Spurs.

 

[ntmac82]

If Poch can’t win the UCL with Neymar, Mbappe and Messi, then he isn’t going to win it with Spurs and should be nowhere near any top club again. Or Spurs.

100% agree. As much as i love Poch. If he cant win the CL with that PSG team then he doesn't deserve another top job. He has literally bee handed a world class squad.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

All this discussion after 4 PL games and a Euro competition no one wants to be in

Has had limited time with the players before the season start. How do impose a style in that short of time
Unable to pick 1st XL in any game but (maybe Watford)

Plays his last game with significant impact on team selection from internationals Has a player sent off and Senior defence partner injured on 12 minutes

Has star player only just coming to terms with his lot and the most expensive player being obstreperous He walked into great harmony and ha so much to work with, I think not

Very easy I'm sure Don't know why he isn't playing with gay abandon

Wasn't my choice of manager but I think he deserves a decent run AVB and MP needed time AVB style never caught on and MP's evolved

There would be as much discussion or worse if we had gone out attacked been torn apart and bottom of the league and player confidence ebbing away

Ironically look at how Wolves are playing now under Bruno Large. His new possession based attacking style has been clear to see since match one, far more entertaining than the shit we have been serving up.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I'm just as concerned with what he's said than the shit performance.
He said we had problems before the red card. Yet he did absolutely zero to change it.

He also said we controlled the first half. It was like listening to Jose. We didn't control it at all. Palace should've been 1 up with the Gallagher chance.

He also said he’d get us playing “solid” football in response to a Q about how he’d go about implementing the free flowing attacking football the fans want.

He’s actually a pretty boring dull guy at least in the media at least.

Likeable, nice and no trouble sure but doesn’t inspire me and his football mirrors his personality, solid but dull.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Every manager needs some time to make the team his. City were poor under Pep in his first year, Liverpool hardly pulled up trees under Klopp in year one. So what, we lost to Palace away with half of our team out. Every single one of us would have taken 9pts from our opening 4 matches before the season started.

Not as simple as that.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I think it can at least be explained what happened, even if

Levy made that statement, probably to get people on side and probably because he was being truthful.

At the same time..
We wanted Nagelsmann - not possible.
We wanted Rodgers - not possible
We wanted Ten Hag - not sure what happened but maybe he didn't impress Levy
We looked at Potter and coaches with similar style but they were deemed to much of a risk.

We then appointed Paratici, as we were having issues with finding a manager and Levy knew he needed to hand transfers over to someone else.

Paratici came in knowing that the defence needed major work. Therefore he needed to find a coach who wasn't known for being leaky.

Paratici's selection included the likes of Conte, Gattusso and others who he knew much better, so he probably wasn't keen on Potter and co.

Nuno became available and Paratici having extended some of his list, knew about Nuno and his time at Valencia, so put him forward.

Levy, knowing that he couldn't go back on his words to the fans, felt Nuno was too defensive and wasn't;t known for the type of football he'd promised.

Paratici then spent a good amount of time showing a portfolio and videos of Nuno's time at Valencia to convince him he could be an attack minded coach.

Levy had his arm twisted and then the objective was to feed the line about 'making us proud'

This is bang on mate great summary altho it’s still worrying because Nuno won’t get us playing the type of football we want to see and it says to me that Paratici doesn’t yet really understand or appreciate the core values of our club and the effect the last 18 months of Joseball has had on our fanbase if he’s hung his hat on Nuno

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I really think our window wasnt good enough. We needed another centre back, central midfielder, attacking midfielder and striker on top of a full clean out. He’s not really been helped in that regard and he is basically keeping the seat warm for the next guy once we can sort out the squad. People need to realise that and the fact we won’t be a consistent champions league qualifying team for a while or at least until klopp leaves Liverpool or Guardiola leaves Man City and they are in transition. We just have to be ready to take advantage then.

Agree, we have two issues here really.

1) squad is still missing about 3-4 key players as you’ve mentioned: CB,CM,AM,ST (we’ve STILL not properly replaced either Dembele or Eriksen) also our star striker wants out.

2) the manger we have hired doesn’t have a track record of playing the style of football we want to see so if/when the results and performances are poor it’ll turn toxic very quickly.

We have issues high up with Levy and the disconnect and lack of a strong plan on the football side. Paratici hire seems a good move but if he was who put forward Nuno and twisted Levy’s arm over it that’s worrying in itself, but not surprising as Juve were all about results not style. Conte & Allegri didn’t play good football but they won, this is the Italian way.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Bang on from Scholes.

Redirect Notice

www.google.co.uk

 

[ajspurs]

Not as simple as that.

I think it's what we're trying to do out there on the pitch that makes a massive difference. Certain managers didn't get things right initially but you knew what they wanted to acheive, even if it really wasn't done convincingly at first. The only reason why I'm worried about Nuno from an early stage is because 'playing football' seems to be quite low down on his list of priorities. Of course I'm not calling for his head, because this can change quite easily but he has to even want to play a more expansive style of football before anything else and so far he hasn't shown that he wants to.

I'd be a lot more optimistic about him in general even if we suffered more at least at first, but knowing that he's being positive in his approach. We'd be lucky to get someone with an attacking approach and to have them hit it off straight away so that shouldn't be a high expectation, but at least we'd be reassured in that we're trying to move in a direction that we wish to be in.

 

[DOX]

I think it can at least be explained what happened, even if

Levy made that statement, probably to get people on side and probably because he was being truthful.

At the same time..
We wanted Nagelsmann - not possible.
We wanted Rodgers - not possible
We wanted Ten Hag - not sure what happened but maybe he didn't impress Levy
We looked at Potter and coaches with similar style but they were deemed to much of a risk.

We then appointed Paratici, as we were having issues with finding a manager and Levy knew he needed to hand transfers over to someone else.

Paratici came in knowing that the defence needed major work. Therefore he needed to find a coach who wasn't known for being leaky.

Paratici's selection included the likes of Conte, Gattusso and others who he knew much better, so he probably wasn't keen on Potter and co.

Nuno became available and Paratici having extended some of his list, knew about Nuno and his time at Valencia, so put him forward.

Levy, knowing that he couldn't go back on his words to the fans, felt Nuno was too defensive and wasn't;t known for the type of football he'd promised.

Paratici then spent a good amount of time showing a portfolio and videos of Nuno's time at Valencia to convince him he could be an attack minded coach.

Levy had his arm twisted and then the objective was to feed the line about 'making us proud'

Agree! Levy’s statement + an Italian “Managing Director of Football” = recipe for unparalleled disaster!

 

[Parklane Spur]

Ironically look at how Wolves are playing now under Bruno Large. His new possession based attacking style has been clear to see since match one, far more entertaining than the shit we have been serving up.

Agree with this. I remember going to The Lane to see Spurs Liverpool, Klopps first match. I seem to remember it being in October, so no time at all for Klopp to really implement his style, yet you could see it immediately. High, aggressive press from the front. Maybe that didn't translate to results as quickly as they would have liked, due to their personnel on the pitch, but you could see what he was trying to achieve.

I will obviously back Nuno whilst he's at the club but you can't help but feel a sense of inevitability with it. The style of play is dour and I've seen nothing to suggest we will transition into a possession based team that controls matches under him.

 

[DOX]

Yes but only if you assume that it stays that way. Only if you assume the guy has nothing more to give. Only if you assume the playing staff aren't capable of more under him. Obviously if all those things are true you are bang on. But I am not sure they are - I can't say they will improve or if they do they will improve significantly but I am just asking the question.

Of course, there's still time... However, the combo of having an Italian DOF and Nuno – looks like we're in for a looooong season.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

At the moment i’m willing to give him time. Not only is 4 matches a stupidly small amount of games to judge any manager, but also his personnel selections have largely been restricted for a number or reasons. And it’s personnel changes in midfield which will enhance our style of play and allow the team to create more chances from open play.

He was forced to play a midfield 3 or Dele. Skipp, PEH. Due to issues with NDombele and lack of training by Lo Celso.

As much as I don’t agree with it I can see the sense at why he didn’t want to tinker with a winning team too much.

As both Tanguy and Lo Celso get more fitness and form I expect at least one of them to become a regular starter.

If we get to 10-15 matches in and Dele/Skipp/ PEH are still first choice with Tanguy/Lo Celso warming the bench then I will start getting concerned.

 

[journeyman]

I’m fine with the results and ultimately happy with 9 points from 12. The selection v. Palace was alarming though, as was the approach generally and the refusal to shuffle a clearly losing deck at half time or subsequently. If we see evidence in due course of Nuno learning from that, and taking an ultimately more front-foot approach against non-top-6 sides, then terrific; and mistakes and blips are fine in that context. If he continues to set us up so negatively however, if we are regularly passive against less talented sides, or if he fails frequently to intervene to stem tides mid-games, then our collective patience will wear thin. This will be all the more so because we’ve suffered 18 months of Jose and we know the limits of a possession-free approach with this group of players.

 

[Locotoro]

No you are spot on, we have a squad full of really poor players. The likes of Moura, Bergjwin, Winks, Dier, Davies, Doherty, Alli have no business being at a top 4 side at this point.

I know that upsets some people who hang their hat on them, but it's true. Under multiple different managers they continually show everybody they aren't good enough. I argued last season we needed an aggressive purge of the playing squad and it didn't happen. I know it isn't easy and you can't force players out, but the likes of Winks and Alli need to be actively forced out of the club by hook or crook.

We cannot keep picking the same crap players and expect better performances let alone results. This is the definition of insanity.

Nuno doesn't help himself though by picking these under performing players. You should expect the manager to be able to help himself. He could have played Ndombele, Gil on Saturday. He could have dropped Alli and Winks for example. Why is it tacking him so long to figure out we need to play a creative midfielder in there? So there are two things wrong here. Our squad is a mess, but we also have a manager picking players who Jose had aleady worked out weren't good enough, and then those players turned against him.

I have long suspected we have an element in our squad, who are quite happy to pick up their obscene wages, and are too comfortable, with no real desire to win. If you don't believe me I will point out to the many years long poor performances and results as proof, largely with the same group of players.

We need a revolution, but I don't think Nuno is the one to carry it out and Levy doesn't want to finance one.

So we will be stuck in this limbo, and until we can force out many of the players I listed above (Not Skipp or Tanganga as they should improve), or find a manager who won't pick them, we are screwed.

Furthermore we have a DOF who seems to favour pragmatic managers, which is at odds with our identity. I can't stomach another season of watching Villa, Leicester etc play far superior football to us every week, let alone the rest of the top 4.

The man responsible for it all is Levy, surely the buck has to stop with him. Why did he employ a DOF who went against our DNA?

You might think this is OTT, but it's just a continuation of what I've seen the last few years. 3 narrow one nil wins won't change it, I can almost guarantee we will have a poor season and finish 7th or below. It's why I didn't renew my ST, the direction of the club is clear. There are far better run clubs in the league than us with clear philosophies. It is only because of Kane and Son we have a fighting chance of the top 7.

To have any sort of turn around we'd need Romero, Royal, GLC, Ndombele to come in to the side and play their socks off and look like 100 million players, so the likes of Winks and Alli are far removed, but we all know that is unlikely. Romero alone won't help us score or create.

So this is my question?
If you're Nuno do you play Dele who works very hard in training and matches, can provide a real engine in the midfield and potentially get you a goal.....or...do you play Ndombele who perhaps doesn't work as hard or earnt the start as much but can create you more opportunities as well as concede them?

I'm not saying the points you made are wrong but I think that's not an easy decision. I'm sure there were alternatives but Nuno has always been a manager who wants his players to work for the team. If he thinks Ndombele isn't doing that does he still play him?

 

[rossdapep]

Agree! Levy’s statement + an Italian “Managing Director of Football” = recipe for unparalleled disaster!

The shame will be that Paratici will make some excellent acquistions for us and is a much better choice than Levy on this matter.

But I do worry about who he would appoint if Nuno is fired.

Unless of course he starts to understand the fans and club.

I think at Juventus his appointments were largely down to the fact that Juventus had had so much success by being compact, tough to beat but fans wanted to see some more exciting football. Paratici went for Sarri but Juventus had been long attached to structured organised system and players like Ronaldo, Dybala don't really fit into a system like Sarri's because they aren't going to press and move non stop.

They still won the title but Sarri didnt really get players on side and fans felt they looked more beatable.

I don't know what Paratici was thinking with the Pirlo appointment though. I wonder of it was down to money and they had to get someone available but options were threadbare so went with a legend to buy time.

Hopefully, Paratici will think more along the lines of Sarri next time (not Sarri himself). Let's just hope Nuno can surpass expectations

 

[Deleted member 27855]

So this is my question?
If you're Nuno do you play Dele who works very hard in training and matches, can provide a real engine in the midfield and potentially get you a goal.....or...do you play Ndombele who perhaps doesn't work as hard or earnt the start as much but can create you more opportunities as well as concede them?

I'm not saying the points you made are wrong but I think that's not an easy decision. I'm sure there were alternatives but Nuno has always been a manager who wants his players to work for the team. If he thinks Ndombele isn't doing that does he still play him?

You play both and sit Skipp because he's far too similar to Hojbjerg. I think Dele would look different if you gave the primary playmaking responsibility to someone else. Free him up to make those runs in the box like he used to when we had Eriksen.

I'd actually prefer to try Lo Celso to Ndomble at first. It makes no sense to pay millions for Lo Celso and basically give him no run of games to see what he can do. It's maddening. Plus, Ndomble has earned his spot on the bench with his behavior. He needs to earn his spot back in the starting lineup too.