Gazza - new pics - Not good.

[faymantaray]

That must make day-to-day conversations a bit of a struggle.

Fuck the Sun.

 

[glospur]

I have a predisposition to eat too much and to put on weight.
What do I do? Do I call it an illness and stuff my face until I can't find my own dick to piss?

No. I watch what I eat and I run like forest bloody gump.

I'm not saying it's as easy as choosing to not be something. But it's easy to understand you do have a choice and that's the start of sorting the problems out.
Those that ignore this are their own worst enemies and victims of themselves.

For someone who lived with addicts I'm surprised you hold that attitude towards mental illness. It's nowhere near as ridiculously easy as you make it out to be. Frankly, your attitude is a retrograde one and one that contributes to the continued stigma surrounding mental illness. Too many people consider it a weakness or a choice, particularly in men, rather than the serious illness that it is.

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

For someone who lived with addicts I'm surprised you hold that attitude towards mental illness. It's nowhere near as ridiculously easy as you make it out to be. Frankly, your attitude is a retrograde one and one that contributes to the continued stigma surrounding mental illness. Too many people consider it a weakness or a choice, particularly in men, rather than the serious illness that it is.

Try living with them and being sympathetic.
They hurt their loved ones far more than they hurt themselves.

 

[Dr Benson]

You're probably right. At least you have your experience. But, that doesn't mean that it's not an illness, nor does it mean that all alcoholics are bad people with no concern for other people. But it probably means that the illness/alcholism makes them become a worse person (if they aren't bad in the first place). Alcoholics are not one breed with exactly the same traits.

 

[Mattspur]

My dad was a dreadful alcoholic but he gave up in the end.
Not sure what got through to him to make him stop but it's been about 4 years now.

I always get annoyed when people call it a disease or an illness. I think that's enormously disrespectful to people who have things wrong with them that they didn't ask for and in lots of cases, have no treatment for.

As has been pointed out already, almost every medical professional and psychologist refer to addiction as an illness or disease. I find is sad that in an age where we are supposedly more understanding towards mental illness that opinions like yours (and the 13 people who agree with you) are so common. It shows how intolerant we are as a society towards some very sick people who have a very high chance of dying from their illness.

 

[Mattspur]

Try living with them and being sympathetic.
They hurt their loved ones far more than they hurt themselves.

I can sympathise with how terrible it must have been for you growing up in those circumstances but you shouldn't let your daddy issues stop you from educating yourself on a subject which obviously has some significance to you.

 

[Matthew Wyatt]

I can sympathise with how terrible it must have been for you growing up in those circumstances but you shouldn't let your daddy issues stop you from educating yourself on a subject which obviously has some significance to you.

Excellent response to @TottenhamMattSpur's wailing.

The guy has mental health issues (diagnosed bipolar I believe), along with being poorly educated and then slung into the football goldfish bowel as one of it's biggest names and earners with all the hangers on and bollocks that that entailed. It was a catastrophic combination.

If he'd have been diagnosed sooner he may have been able to get better help and manage it better but by that time his life was already pretty fucked up and he was an alcoholic.

Nature and nurture just did not equip Gascoigne with the faculties to cope with life very well, let alone being a footballing superstar with all the emotional highs and lows of that world.

Best summary of Gascoigne's situation.

 

[Flashspur]

A lot of alcoholics and drug addicts really have a mental illness and the addiction itself is really a self medicating process for horrible depression and anxiety and a whole series of other emotional and mental issues arising from their illness. In most western countries the services assisting people with mental health issues are few and far between and follow up is poor. People are prescribed prescription drugs that don't help without counseling etc. to support recovery. Look at the homeless on your streets. I can guarantee that the majority of them are suffering mental health issues.

If you are in the depths of depression, what is easiest for you - to stay on horrible drugs that have terrible side effects or get drunk and legless. In a lot of cases the latter is a far easier proposition. For a lot of people just treating the alcoholism or drug addiction and associated behaviors does little to solve the deeper underlying mental health issues. That is what people fall off the wagon so easily and sobriety is lost. Its not for want of trying!

 

[Shanks]

I'm (first gen) middle class. My dad is a recovering alcoholic. The people I come across who are most understanding about alcoholism are educated middle class people. The people who are the most judgemental and least understanding re mental health are the working classes or older people/dinosaurs in general. .

Can't say I agree with that, I often find the more 'middle class' (a term I use very loosly as I have no idea what middle class actually means these days).. anyway, I find those that are somewhat more posh, to be more judgemental and less understanding than others.

 

[riggi]

It is only the working class that have a proper problem with alcohol.

 

[Geyzer Soze]

It is only the working class that have a proper problem with alcohol.

I think it was Billy Connolly who (correctly imo!) observed that the Upper and the Lower classes were bascialy the same and could understand and respect each other. Because basically they're all mad. It's the middle classes which fuck it all up in his opinion

 

[yusrisafri]

Time to transfer this to Chat, mods

 

[johnbowel]

Can't say I agree with that, I often find the more 'middle class' (a term I use very loosly as I have no idea what middle class actually means these days).. anyway, I find those that are somewhat more posh, to be more judgemental and less understanding than others.

I'm sure we all have different experiences. The only middle class people I've met (same in that I dont think middle class means anything any more except as a meaningless attack on strawmen) that have had that attitude have been really old, and it's been that that was the major factor. The overwhelming majority of middle class people I know, and that's most people I've known, have actually irritated me for the opposite reason, being uber politically correct and labeling everything with panacea terms that have entered education or public consciousness.

My working class family, and the families of most of the people I've known through AA who were least understanding were working class and bought into a kind of laddish drinking culture thing that made it very hard for the alcoholic family members to start thinking differently. Like I say though, just my experience - and I only mentioned it because someone started generalising about 'middle class' people, to point out that it would be much easier for many people to do the same about working class people,and so neither is a good idea. Very posh people, way beyond middle class, I've met have had a similarly dismissive attitude regarding drinking problems quite often.

I do think that Paul Gascoigne's mates and family exacerbated his problems, as did the area he's from and that social 'class' plays a part in that. I think that kind of... false masculinity that is everywhere but more prominent in kind of areas my dad grew up in than the ones I did, the one that kind of implies you're a wimp, or gay and that that's wrong or something equally absurd if you actually think about anything or do anything non-neanderthal is extremely damaging.

Mental illness is a very relevant point, and something I have grown up around but don't dismiss as conveniently as others. Trying to understand why you behave like you do, why you have the impulses you do, if you have OCD when you are from a culture that just views you as a weirdo, and makes you learn to hide it from the moment you are socially active is pretty dreadful.

I don't think the class thing matters - I just think it's easy to simplify things from either side. Thinking someone chooses to have OCD and their life enslaved by the consequent behaviour is pretty ridiculous, particularly given the lack of free will displayed by the sort of person who needs to do that because of their own personal hangups. Then also, everyone's different, and a lot of damage is done by alcoholics to those around them. When I was a kid it infuriated me that my dad began to act like he was some sort of sage when he stopped drinking, and this deference of responsibility can go too far. I actually preferre him as a drunk at times ha.

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

You don't technically need an addictive personality to become addicted to something.

Alcohol is a perfectly legal substance many millions of people enjoy responsibly.
Having worked in London for almost 20 years though I've witnessed many people say yes to a drink, yes to a night out, yes to lunch time drinks too often.
They don't have addictive personalities but it doesn't take that long for their bodies to form a psysical addiction. I'm sure you're all aware of the difference between a mental addiction and a psysical one?
With alcholism it starts as a mental one where they choone to drink for any number of reasons from good natured to bad. Eventually though their bid 2 depends on the alcohol and requires more and more with no emotional need to consume it.
This can easily tap even the most non addictive types.
This goes for cigarettes - How many of you smoked occasionally as youngsters, then more occasionally, then regularly until BAM 20+ a day. Is that an illness?

 

[Gassin's finest]

I really can't stick all this "class" bollocks.

Fuck the Sun and all those fucking cling-ons like Evans, Baker and Five Bellies.

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

 

[Matthew Wyatt]

What is an alcoholic?

It's an interesting, serious and controversial discussion we're having here so perhaps the subject ought to be defined. 'Alcoholism' is a loose and broad term and I don't think everyone's talking about the same thing.

Also, here's an interesting talk you may already have heard -- "Everything you know about addiction is wrong".

https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_ha...about_addiction_is_wrong?language=en#t-330768

 

[HW61]

Clearly Gazza has his hangers on and so called pals who haven't helped. Thank the Lord he also has gems like Mabbsey who have helped save his life thus far. The Spurs family is something special. And we're all part of that.

 

[Pellshek]

Gazza looking healthier than I've seen him in years in a couple of pics from Cup Final day:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...scoigne-looks-healthy-happy-FA-Cup-final.html

 

[berranet]

But sad/strange he could be there and not thelanethefinale..!