Has there ever been a worse transfer Window than Spurs Summer 2019?

[fishhhandaricecake]

Indeed and Poch was in the most part responsible for both this and the Summer window previous where we signed no one. It's crazy now to think these were the players he was refusing to accept alternatives for. All in hindsight of course, because like you say they all looked good buys at the time.

He's never been particularly good at identifying players to sign. Good coach tactically and gets teams very fit and motivated but signingswise I think Conte & FP will be a much better combinaiton than previous recruitment & Poch

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Is our Summer 2019 Transfer window is the worst in the history of football? If not, which is worse? I’m drawing a blank.

Transfers in:

Tanguy N’Dombele - Lyon - £56m
Jack Clarke - Leeds - £10m
Ryan Sessegnon - Fulham - £30m
Gio Lo Celso - Betis - loan to buy of £62m

Clarke and Sessegnon are prospects but both have done the square root of f-ck all, with Clarke struggling to even play at a League 1 level, and Sessegnon struggling to do anything but lie on the physio table. Lo Celso’s fitness is even worse than Sess’s, having played perhaps 8-10 PL matches in his entire Spurs career when he wasn’t out of form due to injury. N’Dombele, well, we all watched Morecambe, need I say more?

Transfers out:
We recouped maybe £30m in fees, the bulk of which was Kieran Trippier’s - a gaping hole at RB which has led to £40m of investment on Emerson and Doherty, both laughably inferior to Trippier even with all of his flaws.

When you consider our financial situation, the fact that we made CL final in 2019, and the truly shocking return on what was a £160m spend… it is hard to imagine a transfer window being more disastrous than this one.

There have been a few shocker windows but in terms of money wasted this one has to be right up there.

The window we signed the famous 7 to replace Bale was terrible, only Chadli and Eriksen were any good, the rest a complete waste of money.

The January where we signed Nelson & Saha when we needed serious upgrades for a title challenge was poor.

The January where we signed Rasiak was awful.

The summer window where we sold Keane & Berbatov and replaced them with Bent and Rasiak was horrendous.

If Poch wanted to play a diamond with Winks, GLC, Ndombele and Dele then that could've worked if they'd all hit the ground running but GLC and Ndombele got injuries and fitness issues early on and then Poch was gone and we begun Jose's mess but yea in heindsight this was a shocking window and waste of money.

I think Sess could still come good but losing hope on the other 3.

 

[jurgen]

I mean the reality is, our manager wanted very specific players because he felt with his managerial style that he could get the best out of them and that they fit specifically what he was hoping to do. We then sacked the manager after things were not great in the short term in that season. I'm not saying it was a right or wrong decision but I'm merely pointing out that this whole blame Poch for poor purchases just seems to miss the point of how teams are successfully built and how the players perform within that team.

I mean people constantly say wasn't Ndombele's attitude scouted before we signed him, as somebody rightfully pointed out that Poch might have known that and felt he personally had the management style to get the best out of him. I mean considering the level of improvements that players showed at Southampton and Spurs under him, it's not a far fetched concept. To then judge Poch as making terrible transfers when he himself barely got to get to grips with the players just seems foolish to me. We subsequently went a completely different route in managers who all use completely different styles to the manager who bought them both and completely different ways of man management as we saw under Jose and Nuno to what Poch did. Poch created a togetherness and then the 2 managers after completely eroded that feeling at the club which speaks to their different styles.

I just think it's one of those, sometimes players got lost in the shuffle when a club decides to make managerial changes or go in completely different directions. I think the mark of a strong minded player is how they adapt to that manager. I mean look at Sessegnon, he was wanted for Poch's style which you could see him fitting stylistically but he was injured the entire time, then under Jose it didn't look a good fit and he was loaned out, never saw him under Nuno but under Conte you can see that stylistically his career could really thrive. Jose came in and pretty much said he didn't fancy Lo Celso and Lo Celso changed his mind, I think if he stays fit then he could do similar under Conte.

I just think fans don't acknowledge how sacking a manager before he gets to really mould a player for his own benefit can have such an impact. Just because players signed under Poch didn't adap to what Jose/Nuno or even Conte wanted doesn't mean that Poch had a disaster of a window, or the club did poor scouting, it's just one of those things that happens when clubs go through transitions.

I think if you're going to back a manager with such an outlay then you should be prepared to weather the storm as the squad begins a period of adaption rather than sack the manager at the first sign of trouble personally because for all we know, once the players came back from injury and adapted then they may have thrived under his stewardship, however it's all happened now and we've ended up with Conte as our manager which is still frankly unbelievable how lucky we've got, so whatever happened to get us to this point, I'm fine with happening but threads like these just completely miss the point in my opinion.

Seems a very fair take, although given what we know now it's hard to imagine Poch would have got much out of Ndombele either.

 

[dude573]

Agree with the sentiments that these signings felt like good ones at the time and it should be pointed out that Levy backed our manager.

I don't like the way Clarke is thrown into a lot of the discourse about Ndombele/Lo Celso. Loads of Spurs fans complain about us missing out on Bowen or Maddison, but signing championship players is always a punt and that is exactly what the Clarke signing was.

All four of these players came into a team on the downturn with Poch losing heart for the job and the majority of the squad still recovering from the CL final loss. Since then we have had Mourinho who reduced everyone's fitness levels, Mason who played his friends and then Nuno who was sixth choice manager.

Sess could still do well under the Conte - we also had chased him for years before he signed. Granted Ndombele wants to leave, Lo Celso is more interested in Argentina and Clarke probably won't make it here, but I don't think any new signing could succeed in the environment Spurs has been over the past four years.

When you expand it to now we have also seen Højbjerg, Bergwijn and Reggie all face some form of drop in their performances while being at Spurs. For future signings to succeed, Conte needs to change the culture of the club.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I mean the reality is, our manager wanted very specific players because he felt with his managerial style that he could get the best out of them and that they fit specifically what he was hoping to do. We then sacked the manager after things were not great in the short term in that season. I'm not saying it was a right or wrong decision but I'm merely pointing out that this whole blame Poch for poor purchases just seems to miss the point of how teams are successfully built and how the players perform within that team.

I mean people constantly say wasn't Ndombele's attitude scouted before we signed him, as somebody rightfully pointed out that Poch might have known that and felt he personally had the management style to get the best out of him. I mean considering the level of improvements that players showed at Southampton and Spurs under him, it's not a far fetched concept. To then judge Poch as making terrible transfers when he himself barely got to get to grips with the players just seems foolish to me. We subsequently went a completely different route in managers who all use completely different styles to the manager who bought them both and completely different ways of man management as we saw under Jose and Nuno to what Poch did. Poch created a togetherness and then the 2 managers after completely eroded that feeling at the club which speaks to their different styles.

I just think it's one of those, sometimes players got lost in the shuffle when a club decides to make managerial changes or go in completely different directions. I think the mark of a strong minded player is how they adapt to that manager. I mean look at Sessegnon, he was wanted for Poch's style which you could see him fitting stylistically but he was injured the entire time, then under Jose it didn't look a good fit and he was loaned out, never saw him under Nuno but under Conte you can see that stylistically his career could really thrive. Jose came in and pretty much said he didn't fancy Lo Celso and Lo Celso changed his mind, I think if he stays fit then he could do similar under Conte.

I just think fans don't acknowledge how sacking a manager before he gets to really mould a player for his own benefit can have such an impact. Just because players signed under Poch didn't adap to what Jose/Nuno or even Conte wanted doesn't mean that Poch had a disaster of a window, or the club did poor scouting, it's just one of those things that happens when clubs go through transitions.

I think if you're going to back a manager with such an outlay then you should be prepared to weather the storm as the squad begins a period of adaption rather than sack the manager at the first sign of trouble personally because for all we know, once the players came back from injury and adapted then they may have thrived under his stewardship, however it's all happened now and we've ended up with Conte as our manager which is still frankly unbelievable how lucky we've got, so whatever happened to get us to this point, I'm fine with happening but threads like these just completely miss the point in my opinion.

Yea its certainly not as simple as just saying x y z signings were bad but then again good players tend to be able to adapt to different systems and managers, Sessengon has had injuries then a loan, Clarke has been useless, Ndombele can't stay fit and doesn't put in the required effort and Lo Celso can't stay fit enough to get a good run in the team, Ndombele and GLC also seem quite specific players who don't really have an obvious position or be able to adapt and effectively play well in multiple positions so you can build a case to say they were bad signings as a combination of fitness, attitude, adaptability and quality has to be questioned in some ways with each of these players.

 

[jurgen]

There have been a few shocker windows but in terms of money wasted this one has to be right up there.

The window we signed the famous 7 to replace Bale was terrible, only Chadli and Eriksen were any good, the rest a complete waste of money.

The January where we signed Nelson & Saha when we needed serious upgrades for a title challenge was poor.

The January where we signed Rasiak was awful.

The summer window where we sold Keane & Berbatov and replaced them with Bent and Rasiak was horrendous.

If Poch wanted to play a diamond with Winks, GLC, Ndombele and Dele then that could've worked if they'd all hit the ground running but GLC and Ndombele got injuries and fitness issues early on and then Poch was gone and we begun Jose's mess but yea in heindsight this was a shocking window and waste of money.

I think Sess could still come good but losing hope on the other 3.

PTSD-inducing list of windows there...

In the end, the Bale window was almost mitigated by the fact that Eriksen went on to be so good, and if we'd paid £50-60m for him it still would have been decent value.

Some of the others though.. jesus christ.. going from Berbatov to Frazier Campbell on deadline day

 

[wrd]

Yea its certainly not as simple as just saying x y z signings were bad but then again good players tend to be able to adapt to different systems and managers, Sessengon has had injuries then a loan, Clarke has been useless, Ndombele can't stay fit and doesn't put in the required effort and Lo Celso can't stay fit enough to get a good run in the team, Ndombele and GLC also seem quite specific players who don't really have an obvious position or be able to adapt and effectively play well in multiple positions so you can build a case to say they were bad signings as a combination of fitness, attitude, adaptability and quality has to be questioned in some ways with each of these players.

As I said the mark of a players attitude is how they adapt and personally I do think Sessegnon and Lo Celso will adapt to Conte. Their short term goals are about staying fit, I understand why fans are fed up with players who constantly get injured but personally I think they'll come back and there's no question of attitude over them for me personally. Clarke was one of those, the club took a punt on a player who Poch didn't even want if I recall correctly, they sent him back to leeds who had no interesting in developing the player, again I think the onus is on poor handling by the club of a young players development there and questionable decision making of signing a player the current incumbent of the role of manager didn't want.

Ndombele is the one who even I must admit has let me down with his attitude, I get the feeling he will go to a club who suits his style and do well but I had hoped under a manager like Conte he would finally come back but he just doesn't seem to even want to under such a quality manager. As I say under Poch under that style possibly a different story but it looks to me like the revolving door of managers and styles has had a detrimental effect on the player we thought we signed and unfortunately judging solely on his decision to continue to walk slowly off the pitch on Sunday, it looks like he's decided he has no desire to make it work at this club despite the world class manager which would show a poor mentality to me. If he doesn't get the move in Jan then he has another few months to change his mentality.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

The window we signed the famous 7 to replace Bale was terrible, only Chadli and Eriksen were any good, the rest a complete waste of money.

This is a touch harsh on Lamela. Didn’t live up to the hype or his price tag but was a pretty solid player for us for a very long time and contributed some important goals.

The 2013 window was a lot better than 2019 IMO. We signed someone who became a world class player for us and we actually recouped a decent amount from the money spent on the other 5 flops in the end. I think we got about £40-50m back all told, and we were able to move them on pretty quickly.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

This is a touch harsh on Lamela. Didn’t live up to the hype or his price tag but was a pretty solid player for us for a very long time and contributed some important goals.

The 2013 window was a lot better than 2019 IMO. We signed someone who became a world class player for us and we actually recouped a decent amount from the money spent on the other 5 flops in the end. I think we got about £40-50m back all told, and we were able to move them on pretty quickly.

Forgot about Lamela but tbh he was barely fit for about 7 years so for the price we paid for him at the time I don't think he was a good signing, sure I liked his attitude and he scored the odd rabona and was ok for parts of 2 seasons under poch in a 4-2-3-1 but overall he scored 17 goals in 177 games and he only played 177 games in 8 years and quite a few of those were sub apperances.

 

[SUIYHA]

2019 probably frustrates me the most as we had a major windfall that came from the CL run and appear to have blown it. In all of the other windows where we've received a windfall and bought a few crap players then at least we've had one or two of them turn out to be stars, at least in the long term (Bale 2007, Modric 2008, Eriksen 2013 etc). This time around then all of them so far have been flop signings.

I think the 2007 window does stand out for me as a particularly poor one that nobody mentioned yet because of the context behind it. We'd narrowly missed out on top four two seasons running and needed a few quality signings to get us that extra bit of the way. The one area of our team that was really functional was in attack - Berbatov and Keane were two of the best players in the country and had formed an outstanding partnership, and we had Defoe (and Mido) as good backup. There were glaring deficiencies in other parts of the squad though - with Jenas and Zokora as our first choice midfield pairing, we had a real lack of creativity and ball playing ability, as well as no natural DM / ball winner. On the wings we had Lennon who was raw, and Malbranque who was ok but needed upgrading. King's injuries were getting the better of him and he was spending a lot of time out of action. Most importantly though, the squad was also full of young, inexperienced players that whilst talented, needed guidance from more experienced players that could help them develop and to see out games more effectively.

So you'd have thought knowing this, the obvious thing to do would have been to ignore the attack as that was working, but instead to invest in experienced leaders in midfield and defence to add a bit of extra creativity and steel into the side. What did we do? We blew the majority of the transfer budget on Darren Bent who was our record signing and clearly worse than three strikers we already had. We then blew another huge chunk of money on Younes Kaboul, Kevin Prince Boateng and Adel Taraabt, all talented players, but all very young and clearly nowhere near ready for the starting XI yet. Only one signing we made that summer (Bent) was over the age of 21 or had any Premier League experience. As King was still crocked, we went into the season with Gardner, Stalteri, Jenas, Zokora and co still in the starting lineup with Kaboul looking like a rabbit in the headlights in a new country, and instead of challenging for the top four we found ourselves midway through the season hovering just above the relegation zone. Only in January when we addressed the issues and brought in Jonathan Woodgate did we start to turn things around and of course, win the Carling Cup.

We did sign a teenage Gareth Bale and Danny Rose in that window so not all bad, but still, awful awful planning.

 

[rossdapep]

2019 was worse than 2018.

2018 was a disaster but it could have been rectified in 2019 if we’d spent well. 2019 was a bigger disaster because it set us back years - the astronomical amounts of money wasted on players that are impossible to shift at anything other than a dramatic loss.

Yeah, I tend to agree with this way of thinking.

I know it's not the case cause we should have signed Grealish and a CM but sometimes there genuinely aren't options better than what you have, that's when you need to get the next window right.

Liverpool did this in 2019. They only bought a 5th choice centre back and waited for the next window before they got more suitable players in.

We just horribly messed it up.

 

[beats1]

The signings weren't bad, the club is bad

Look at bruno Fernandes, he has gone from world class last season to a shadow. No one is even talking about him this season. Thats what a lack of stability does

Summer 2019 - We sign four players
November 2019 - Poch sacked, Mourinho comes in
March 2020 - Pandemic hits, season stopped, players aren't allowed to interact with anyone
June 2020 - Season restarts in bubble
26th July 2020 - Season finishes
September 2020 - Season starts with restrictions
March 2021 - Mourinho sacked, Mason comes in
July 2021 - Mason demoted, Nuno hired after the worst managerial process in history
November 2021 - Nuno sacked, Conte comes in
December 2021 - Covid Outbreak at club, club kicked out of competition from which these players would play in

I think people forget that players are people, they moved in to a new club in which the manager was tense post the CL final, he got sacked and they were then hit by a pandemic, in a new country not allowed to leave their homes whilst not knowing anyone and having the best grasp of the language

Look at that window, its been horrendous for every club
Haller - £45m
Maguire - £89M
Pepe - Shitloads

The players moving to settled clubs were the ones who did the best and we haven't been settled for a very long time

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

The signings weren't bad, the club is bad

Look at bruno Fernandes, he has gone from world class last season to a shadow. No one is even talking about him this season. Thats what a lack of stability does

Summer 2019 - We sign four players
November 2019 - Poch sacked, Mourinho comes in
March 2020 - Pandemic hits, season stopped, players aren't allowed to interact with anyone
June 2020 - Season restarts in bubble
26th July 2020 - Season finishes
September 2020 - Season starts with restrictions
March 2021 - Mourinho sacked, Mason comes in
July 2021 - Mason demoted, Nuno hired after the worst managerial process in history
November 2021 - Nuno sacked, Conte comes in
December 2021 - Covid Outbreak at club, club kicked out of competition from which these players would play in

I think people forget that players are people, they moved in to a new club in which the manager was tense post the CL final, he got sacked and they were then hit by a pandemic, in a new country not allowed to leave their homes whilst not knowing anyone and having the best grasp of the language

Look at that window, its been horrendous for every club
Haller - £45m
Maguire - £89M
Pepe - Shitloads

The players moving to settled clubs were the ones who did the best and we haven't been settled for a very long time

Brilliant point about B.Fernandes, I've been thinking the same this season that he's a shadow of himself now Man.U are unstable.

Some players are hits some are misses but unless you're a Chelsea where you have so much money you can keep throwing money at top top players even when ones fail then the key is to have a consistent strategy in terms of the style of play and types of managers you hire.

If we fully back conte and sign players to suit his back 3 formation and we go on to be successful then the easiest way to continue that will be for our next manager to also be a back 3 specialist so our players fit the managers style.

Poch to Jose to Nuno to Conte is so different so signings are bound to not be successful as we've signed the likes of GLC and Ndombele seemingly to play in a diamond for Poch, we signed Doherty to play in a lop sided back 4 for Jose, we signed PEH to be a destroyer in a deep block 4-2-3-1 for Jose, for Nuno we Signed Emerson to be a solid RB in a 4-3-3 and Gil to be a winger in a 4-3-3 now we have a manager who plays 3-4-3 and 3-5-2, some of those managers played high press, some played low block, some played more balanced so its really been quite a mess.

Hopefully we now settle down with Conte and sign players which suit what he wants. Really hope he also extends his deal by a year because if for some reason we part ways after 18 months and bring in another different style of manager then we will have issues again.

 

[wrd]

The signings weren't bad, the club is bad

Look at bruno Fernandes, he has gone from world class last season to a shadow. No one is even talking about him this season. Thats what a lack of stability does

Summer 2019 - We sign four players
November 2019 - Poch sacked, Mourinho comes in
March 2020 - Pandemic hits, season stopped, players aren't allowed to interact with anyone
June 2020 - Season restarts in bubble
26th July 2020 - Season finishes
September 2020 - Season starts with restrictions
March 2021 - Mourinho sacked, Mason comes in
July 2021 - Mason demoted, Nuno hired after the worst managerial process in history
November 2021 - Nuno sacked, Conte comes in
December 2021 - Covid Outbreak at club, club kicked out of competition from which these players would play in

I think people forget that players are people, they moved in to a new club in which the manager was tense post the CL final, he got sacked and they were then hit by a pandemic, in a new country not allowed to leave their homes whilst not knowing anyone and having the best grasp of the language

Look at that window, its been horrendous for every club
Haller - £45m
Maguire - £89M
Pepe - Shitloads

The players moving to settled clubs were the ones who did the best and we haven't been settled for a very long time

Yep couldn't agree more, I think sometimes people just want look where to attribute blame rather than look at the circumstances as to how a situation arises tbh.

 

[wrd]

Brilliant point about B.Fernandes, I've been thinking the same this season that he's a shadow of himself now Man.U are unstable.

Some players are hits some are misses but unless you're a Chelsea where you have so much money you can keep throwing money at top top players even when ones fail then the key is to have a consistent strategy in terms of the style of play and types of managers you hire.

If we fully back conte and sign players to suit his back 3 formation and we go on to be successful then the easiest way to continue that will be for our next manager to also be a back 3 specialist so our players fit the managers style.

Poch to Jose to Nuno to Conte is so different so signings are bound to not be successful as we've signed the likes of GLC and Ndombele seemingly to play in a diamond for Poch, we signed Doherty to play in a lop sided back 4 for Jose, we signed PEH to be a destroyer in a deep block 4-2-3-1 for Jose, for Nuno we Signed Emerson to be a solid RB in a 4-3-3 and Gil to be a winger in a 4-3-3 now we have a manager who plays 3-4-3 and 3-5-2, some of those managers played high press, some played low block, some played more balanced so its really been quite a mess.

Hopefully we now settle down with Conte and sign players which suit what he wants. Really hope he also extends his deal by a year because if for some reason we part ways after 18 months and bring in another different style of manager then we will have issues again.

Emerson is a really good example of a player who may end up being lost in the shuffle, however he appears to have a superb attitude, though one caveat to that is that it's easy to have a good attitude when you get chance after chance to start regardless of performance (something the aforementioned players in this thread haven't been afforded) because you have little competition, we'll see what happens if Traore is about.

 

[spurs mental]

What's funny is they were all apparently Poch's top 4 targets, and we actually thought we may have started the rebuild. Instead we're stuck with one lazy fucker, one who only plays for his country, one who has started to show something recently and I couldn't tell you where Jack Clarke even is.

But as others have said, the year before when we signed nobody set us back further.

 

[JCRD]

Look I love Poch, - he did a lot for this club and gave me one of my most memorable moments as well as making us competitive and challenging twice for the league - we were so damn good. However he was shit at identifying and signing players - I must admit and wasnt one of his better qualities.

Whether those players he signed in 2019 would have delivered more than they have done if he was still our Manager - I dont know.

 

[dtxspurs]

Yeah, there is definitely a bit to the turmoil that happened in regards to who those players were purchased under. And outside of Ndombele, basically none of them ever got to play under him.

 

[allatsea]

Indeed and Poch was in the most part responsible for both this and the Summer window previous where we signed no one. It's crazy now to think these were the players he was refusing to accept alternatives for. All in hindsight of course, because like you say they all looked good buys at the time.

Poch has not been criticised enough for his attitude towards transfers. Poor choices and unrealistic expectations.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Emerson is a really good example of a player who may end up being lost in the shuffle, however he appears to have a superb attitude, though one caveat to that is that it's easy to have a good attitude when you get chance after chance to start regardless of performance (something the aforementioned players in this thread haven't been afforded) because you have little competition, we'll see what happens if Traore is about.

100% I've been disagreeing with a lot of posters who have been slating Emerson for his crossing and therefore concluding he's 'rubbish'.

He's absolutely NOT rubbish, he was signed as a Right-Back in a 4-3-3 and he has shown that he is very solid defensively, he's athletic, he is good in the air and as a RB he looks decent but as a RWB (NOT his position) he looks uncomfortable.

He is also 22, new language, new country, new teammates, new league, change of manager so it all has to be taken into consideration.

That is why as we've said above, on paper the signings we made in summer of 2019 weren't horrendous BUT Ndombele in terms of his attitude was a bad signing because that should've been picked up when analysing him as a potential signing. GLC on paper was great for Betis and if he'd stayed fit early on he has attributes Poch could've worked with, same as Sess. Clarke was just a gamble on a young player from the Championship which seemingly hasn't worked out but not end of the world, for every Dawson you get a Callum Davenport.