Have you ever felt more disconnected?

[BuryMeInEngland]

This is surely gonna help soothe tensions? ENIC never fails to miss an opportunity to help itself with a fan base that couldnt be more disconnected from the club right now even if they banned supporters from entering the ground like oldham & blackpool have tried in the past.



Probably costs too much for them & provides no benefit for its nfl franchise aspirations

Didn't I read somewhere they are willing (nice of them) to have this as part of a planned Tottenham museum? Of course I'm pretty sure there will be a nice entry fee to go through the museum, and a statue doesn't bring in any money at all. Unless of course they charge punters to have their picture taken with it. Maybe someone can suggest that to ENIC.

 

[shelfboy68]

So we shouldn't be happy or proud the club are doing this sort of thing? I get the disconnect and concern regarding footballing matters, I do, but to have a sustainably run facility through solar energy, vegetable gardens being used in the canteens and no waste whatsoever, that is a huge thing. Especially considering the concern regarding climate change, carbon emissions and all that.

I understand about some of the issues of the day such as plastic in the seas etc, but I think the world continues to heat up and cool down periodically.
After all we had an ice age thousands of years when the climate changed not due to cars, plastic bottles or waste in landfill sites because none of it existed.

 

[shelfboy68]

Didn't I read somewhere they are willing (nice of them) to have this as part of a planned Tottenham museum? Of course I'm pretty sure there will be a nice entry fee to go through the museum, and a statue doesn't bring in any money at all. Unless of course they charge punters to have their picture taken with it. Maybe someone can suggest that to ENIC.

Can't they save money and just use our trophy cabinet as a museum.

 

[yankspurs]

Didn't I read somewhere they are willing (nice of them) to have this as part of a planned Tottenham museum? Of course I'm pretty sure there will be a nice entry fee to go through the museum, and a statue doesn't bring in any money at all. Unless of course they charge punters to have their picture taken with it. Maybe someone can suggest that to ENIC.

"Oh, you would like a picture with the Greaves statue? That'll be £100 please." - Daniel Levy, probably

 

[ajspurs]

Just posted this in the Nuno thread in response to my earlier post that I wouldn't be watching the Chelsea game. Feels more relevant here:

I've got to be honest, avoiding the game in the main turned out to be pretty nice.
I dropped into the match thread about twice I think, but otherwise didn't watch the game, the highlights or anything else. Saw the score on my Fantasy Football and that was about it.

Feels numb to completely disengage with Spurs like that but at the same time I got none of the frustration and disappointment either. In fact my only annoyance was that I was going to put a bet on Chelsea to win 3-0 but couldn't do it as I hate them too much to back them!

In the end we all went to a nice BBQ with friends and family and had a great time living life without football. Bit scared by just how much I enjoyed that...

I feel similar. I have a few people that I wish to reply to in the Nuno thread who have quoted me but quite frankly, it's been lovely not going in there and not thinking about Spurs and the current problems. I'll watch the game tonight (or some of it) because I'm not quite at that stage that I was at with Jose, where I would have looked for something else to do had it not been for COVID, but I could easily get there.

It's not being bad or mediocre that's the problem, it's playing as if you're not really giving it a go and playing to score goals and win that is for me. I never would have thought about not watching Spurs in some of the years gone by even when we were much lesser of a club/team. It's just gotten so stale and lifeless.

 

[scat1620]

In the end we all went to a nice BBQ with friends and family and had a great time living life without football. Bit scared by just how much I enjoyed that...

 

[shelfboy68]

I'm sorry but I will be happy to see my club doing what it can for the environment. You don't have to be a cynic to every single thing Levy does or does not do.

You must be either very nice or quite young because literally anything spouted by levy/ enic should be treated with cynicism.

 

[rez9000]

I would also be willing to bet that for anything like this, carbon neutral pronouncements, charitable donations etc., have some kind of hefty tax implications in favor of the club. I might be a bit cynical, but I just don't believe big corporations do anything like this unless there is some kind of tidy profit in it at the end of the day. Whether it's just from a tax point of view or something else, they certainly are not doing it just for the good of the planet.

Agreed. It's at best, tokenism, and at worst a financial decision.

It's why I have issues with the knee-taking.

It's not that I don't believe in the sentiment - it's just that it's nothing but tokenism when they do it. Very few of the players doing it, very few of the clubs they play for, and certainly none of the broadcasters banging on about it are actually doing anything to combat racism. It's nothing but tokenism and virtue signaling. It's so they can pat themselves on the back and tell themselves they're part of the solution when they are anything but.

Even the carbon-neutral game shite. They made a great noise about how there'll be plant-based food available, not realising that the science shows that using plant-based food doesn't carry any kind of environmental benefit (some argue it could actually damage the environment more - but that's another debate). There are also serious criticisms of the concept of carbon 'trading', which was the fundamental basis on which they trumpeted that the game would be 'carbon neutral'. There are experts who say that carbon trading doesn't actually provide any benefit to the environment or climate-change gas emission levels.

It's everywhere. No matter what the cause, no matter what the identity, there are the corporations, shilling away. As a random example, take Pride. It's now just one massive corporate advertising display. What precisely are the LGBTQ+ community being asked to take pride in - being sponsored by McDonalds and Microsoft? McDonalds and Microsoft would pull the back teeth out of all our heads (not just gay people) if they could do so legally and there was money to be made from it.

They don't give a shit about the planet or racism or LGBTQ issues or anything else. And I'm not saying they should - their job is to make money. Just don't pretend you give a fuck about any of this stuff and try to shove the 'right-on' credentials you don't actually possess down our throats 24/7.

 

[Gilzeanking]

I watched the pens vs Wolves with sound off and a funny feeling that I just wasn't that fussed who won the pens.

As long as Chelsea and a couple other big teams are still in the competition we are v v unlikely to succeed and the midweek rests would do us good .

 

[dudu]

I'm wondering if the feeling of disconnectedness comes from the rise in expectation.

We have played shit, boring, unimaginative, poor football plenty of times during my 40 years of supporting spurs but it feels like because we got to a CL final and competed for a while the expectation has created a greater sense of disappointment.

There is no longer joy in supporting spurs for some, through the bad times, giving some patience longer than 6 weeks into a season to write us off completely. Instant gratification is needed and even when we do win and play well doing so, this site becomes a relative ghost town.

 

[Albertbarich]

I'm wondering if the feeling of disconnectedness comes from the rise in expectation.

We have played shit, boring, unimaginative, poor football plenty of times during my 40 years of supporting spurs but it feels like because we got to a CL final and competed for a while the expectation has created a greater sense of disappointment.

There is no longer joy in supporting spurs for some, through the bad times, giving some patience longer than 6 weeks into a season to write us off completely. Instant gratification is needed and even when we do win and play well doing so, this site becomes a relative ghost town.

I agree with this post to a degree but then you let yourself down by having digs at other fans because they don't feel the same as you.

I agree that the success has somewhat caused the disconnect but obviously its more to it than that.

Hes built a spaceship for a stadium and makes a huge deal about it, sells tickets to events he wants to hold there on the clubs social media. Charges the most expensive prices to the games in the world tried to join a runaway league without consultation or even an apology, just a few years previous to that he wanted to move the club to Stratford.

There is very little these owners have done to make fans feel like they give a shit about them.

And you can get away with it when you have a good football team but we haven't now. We did have whilst building the stadium. Poch somehow kept the champions league money train going whilst playing at Wembley. And we all waited to get over the rainbow into that super stadium.

Except now we're in it we saw our beloved manager sort of backed when it was too late and then sacked, we then got in the most toxic, divisive manager we could and endured 18 months of shite and he was then sacked for the chairman to run the most shambolic manager hunt ever to end up with someone he clearly didn't want who has no record of success and has done nothing to show he will produce success.

And again we have to gone into a season Ill prepared due to another shitty transfer window and even you are saying that were not very good.

Prices are still the same, shilling is still non stop though.

So I'll love spurs every bit as much as you do thanks but it's run not like a club but a business with little interest In sporting success and this is a forum for us to discuss / moan about that.

 

[Tiberius Gracchus]

Even the carbon-neutral game shite. They made a great noise about how there'll be plant-based food available, not realising that the science shows that using plant-based food doesn't carry any kind of environmental benefit (some argue it could actually damage the environment more - but that's another debate).

I was proud of the club for the plant-based stuff and am generally feeling pretty low about Spurs right now (gave away my season ticket seat for the last two league games)

I also agree with the general sentiment of your post - corporations making noises but doing nothing - but have to take issue with this as I'm seeing it posted more and more frequently. The meat industry, especially beef, pork, lamb and dairy, is unrivalled in terms of greenhouse emissions, desertification (check out those huge ranches in the USA), water consumption and land use (including deforestation).

What can confuse things is:
- Some plant-based food causes sizeable damage, depending on where it's transported from. Asparagus and blueberries are common offenders because they flown over from North America. Also anything you buy in a supermarket that's out of season - strawberries in February, for example.

- Deforestation to make way for cattle ranches and the food needed to feed the cattle. The most common of these is soy and corn, but because these are also popular with vegans, it allows the meat industry to muddy the waters by saying "oh but soy is also causing a lot of deforestation" - neglecting to point out that you need a hell of a lot of soy to feed cattle and allowing the assumption that it's those nasty vegans causing the Amazon to be cut down

- Dickheads like Insulate Britain, who give environmentalism a bad name

- Purists - the world doesn't need a single perfect vegan: it just needs a couple of billion people to eat a bit less meat. Doing that is sometimes hard because meat has been such a massive part of our food culture.

Doing that is sometimes hard because meat has been such a massive part of our food culture. So I'm proud of Spurs for making it a bit easier for people to eat a bit less meat

 

[rez9000]

I was proud of the club for the plant-based stuff and am generally feeling pretty low about Spurs right now (gave away my season ticket seat for the last two league games)

I also agree with the general sentiment of your post - corporations making noises but doing nothing - but have to take issue with this as I'm seeing it posted more and more frequently. The meat industry, especially beef, pork, lamb and dairy, is unrivalled in terms of greenhouse emissions, desertification (check out those huge ranches in the USA), water consumption and land use (including deforestation).

What can confuse things is:
- Some plant-based food causes sizeable damage, depending on where it's transported from. Asparagus and blueberries are common offenders because they flown over from North America. Also anything you buy in a supermarket that's out of season - strawberries in February, for example.

- Deforestation to make way for cattle ranches and the food needed to feed the cattle. The most common of these is soy and corn, but because these are also popular with vegans, it allows the meat industry to muddy the waters by saying "oh but soy is also causing a lot of deforestation" - neglecting to point out that you need a hell of a lot of soy to feed cattle and allowing the assumption that it's those nasty vegans causing the Amazon to be cut down

- Dickheads like Insulate Britain, who give environmentalism a bad name

- Purists - the world doesn't need a single perfect vegan: it just needs a couple of billion people to eat a bit less meat. Doing that is sometimes hard because meat has been such a massive part of our food culture.

Doing that is sometimes hard because meat has been such a massive part of our food culture. So I'm proud of Spurs for making it a bit easier for people to eat a bit less meat

This isn't the forum to get into the debate about the environment. The main point is that none of these 'initiatives', be it supporting the environment, supporting the fight against prejudice or any of the others are supported by corporations for any of the actual motivations that drive the movements. They have zero interest in them for what they are - they view them only as opportunities to feed their bottom lines.

 

[Tiberius Gracchus]

This isn't the forum to get into the debate about the environment.

The thread is about feeling connected to the club, and - although I'm feeling apathetic about the football - this inititiative made me a bit prouder of the club.

In any case, you were the one who introduced the environmental debate! But I'm not looking for an argument - live well, my spurs brother!

 

[BringBack_leGin]

they have a philosophy and attempt to play most days

Not on the basis of having seen any of their performances this season ?

 

[ShelfWatcher]

Last night was an excellent game, some brilliant football, two well taken goals by us, winning on a penalty shoot out. Great atmosphere created by both sets of supporters. Very similar to the Rennes game in many aspects.
These are the type of games that got me to fall in love with football.
Both in competitions Incidentally that are derided by many, though not by me. I grew up loving cup football, still do today. Looking forward to the next league game too, another 2 2 cracker would do me fine

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Last night was an excellent game, some brilliant football, two well taken goals by us, winning on a penalty shoot out. Great atmosphere created by both sets of supporters. Very similar to the Rennes game in many aspects.
These are the type of games that got me to fall in love with football.
Both in competitions Incidentally that are derided by many, though not by me. I grew up loving cup football, still do today. Looking forward to the next league game too, another 2 2 cracker would do me fine

100% I’d take winning either of those competitions and 6th-7th over 4th and no trophy.

People may laugh at it but inaugural Europa Conference League winners would be lovely.

 

[dudu]

I agree with this post to a degree but then you let yourself down by having digs at other fans because they don't feel the same as you.

I agree that the success has somewhat caused the disconnect but obviously its more to it than that.

Hes built a spaceship for a stadium and makes a huge deal about it, sells tickets to events he wants to hold there on the clubs social media. Charges the most expensive prices to the games in the world tried to join a runaway league without consultation or even an apology, just a few years previous to that he wanted to move the club to Stratford.

There is very little these owners have done to make fans feel like they give a shit about them.

And you can get away with it when you have a good football team but we haven't now. We did have whilst building the stadium. Poch somehow kept the champions league money train going whilst playing at Wembley. And we all waited to get over the rainbow into that super stadium.

Except now we're in it we saw our beloved manager sort of backed when it was too late and then sacked, we then got in the most toxic, divisive manager we could and endured 18 months of shite and he was then sacked for the chairman to run the most shambolic manager hunt ever to end up with someone he clearly didn't want who has no record of success and has done nothing to show he will produce success.

And again we have to gone into a season Ill prepared due to another shitty transfer window and even you are saying that were not very good.

Prices are still the same, shilling is still non stop though.

So I'll love spurs every bit as much as you do thanks but it's run not like a club but a business with little interest In sporting success and this is a forum for us to discuss / moan about that.

Thanks for your reply mate! I'm really not trying to have a pop at any fans, just repeating what they have said themselves. For sure we all love spurs the same, but I guess my question was why is this time different.

When did we last have a chairman that gave a shit about us, consulted the fans before they did things, that wasn't trying to make as much money as they could, that didn't - hire shit managers, bought shit players, lie to us?

I can't really remember one in my lifetime so what is the difference now? Why do people feel so disconnected this time?

For me it is a lot to do with expectation, some of it created by the club, some in fans own heads.

People were definitely this apathetic during AVB and Sherwood times but they feel more disconnected now why? Because of the greater ticket prices? Aren't people also complaining that we can't compete with the teams above us financially? And yes, I've heard the argument that JL and DL could just whack a load of money into the team but where has that expectation come from? Did they say they would or ever insinuate that would be how the club is run?

What DL said was that he wants to go back to the club DNA and play more attacking, progressive football. Absolutely that is an expectation he has set but then there is now the added expectation that it should be instant, even though history would teach us, from our and other teams experience that aside from that new manager bounce some teams get, it takes time and we shouldn't really be so harshly judging team and manager after a month or so.

 

[ShelfWatcher]

100% I’d take winning either of those competitions and 6th-7th over 4th and no trophy.

People may laugh at it but inaugural Europa Conference League winners would be lovely.

Me too, tired of being no trophies Tottenham. When I was growing up we were a famous cup team. Cup games often had bigger crowds and better atmospheres.
Like you would love to be first ECL winners. I was at both Wolves games when we were first UEFA Cup winners. The atmosphere was amazing at both games, especially at Wolves. There were so many of us packed in the away end, what a racket we made throughout the game, especially for the two Chivers thunderbolts that won the game and effectively the Cup.
I also vividly remember the pride I felt when we were the first British team to win a major European trophy. Too young to go to Rotterdam, but made my school days a whole lot better when we kept winning cups in the 60s

 

[Trent Crimm]

This isn't the forum to get into the debate about the environment. The main point is that none of these 'initiatives', be it supporting the environment, supporting the fight against prejudice or any of the others are supported by corporations for any of the actual motivations that drive the movements. They have zero interest in them for what they are - they view them only as opportunities to feed their bottom lines.

Yep, pure PR and these days you have to be seen to be doing something.

Danny needs to cover himself in glue then stick himself to the M11. At that point I’ll believe ?