Height and set pieces next year

[JackDaniels18]

Been looking at our potential line up next year:

Lloris

Walker Kaboul Vertonghen Rose (?)

Sandro Dembele Paulinho

Lennon Benteke Bale

And looking at the team except for Rose/BAE/? and Lennon all the players who over 6ft in height. Surely we should finally be able to threaten from set pieces and be able to defend corners with a team that big next year!

 

[Blake Griffin]

walker's under 6ft but he does have a great leap. my main problem with defending set-pieces last season was why have we started taking men off the posts? just by doing that we could've stopped 3 or 4 from going in.

 

[vegassd]

It's not so much about height as it is about concentration and alertness.

No point being 6 foot if you aren't marking the bloke who heads it into the net.

 

[Deuce23]

I don't think it has anything to do with height or the players we've got.

Just to use an example, I saw Dempsey head in goal after goal after goal after goal two seasons ago. Fantastic service + his aerial prowess = tons of chances.

When watching games I looked at him in particular, because he was the best header of the ball in the box out there, and I'm sure the team would have recognized that. Fair play they did, and looked for him specifically sometimes, but Walker is just a horrific set piece taker, something I didn't see people complain about enough. It was more luck than planning when a goal went in. When Siggy came in he was the best with corners, but he didn't play much last season. Huge hole for the team last season and I hope it improves.

 

[Geyzer Soze]

walker's under 6ft but he does have a great leap. my main problem with defending set-pieces last season was why have we started taking men off the posts? just by doing that we could've stopped 3 or 4 from going in.

I read an interesting article about that, which I'll dig up & come back to repost if I can find it, the thrust of which was that stats & metrics show that putting men on the posts is wasteful & hence avb doesn't do it.

 

[mpickard2087]

Benteke will (if he signs) help because he is a bit of a freak in that he is strong and has a fantastic leap and 'hang time'. Nothing subtle about how Villa use him a lot of the time they chip it in the air towards him and watch him just climb above everyone else.

As for the others, as has been said height isn't really the major factors in it. Movement and concentration is more important, and also actually looking like we have practiced moves on the training ground so everyone knows where to run!!, then there is delivery of the set piece...

Defensively it is more about being switched on and not letting your man get a run on you.

 

[mpickard2087]

I read an interesting article about that, which I'll dig up & come back to repost if I can find it, the thrust of which was that stats & metrics show that putting men on the posts is wasteful & hence avb doesn't do it.

A lot of coaches say this, but I don't think you find any fan that agrees with it.

 

[absolute bobbins]

I read an interesting article about that, which I'll dig up & come back to repost if I can find it, the thrust of which was that stats & metrics show that putting men on the posts is wasteful & hence avb doesn't do it.

I don't think AVB has one set MO for defending set pieces. He seems to alternate depending on the opposition, I can distinctly remember Walker hugging the post a couple of times last season

 

[C0YS]

A lot of coaches say this, but I don't think you find any fan that agrees with it.

Just shows how ignorant fans are I guess. If you think about it makes sense. Surely preventing a header going in on the line is less effective than preventing the actual header happening in the first place. Considering statistics seem to back it up it seems logical to not put men on the posts.

 

[mpickard2087]

Just shows how ignorant fans are I guess. If you think about it makes sense. Surely preventing a header going in on the line is less effective than preventing the actual header happening in the first place. Considering statistics seem to back it up it seems logical to not put men on the posts.

How many players need marking that we cannot afford to cover both posts!?

And given our struggles at preventing headers last season, surely it would have made sense to protect the goal as much as possible?

 

[beats1]

Not going to sit on the fence and say we will still concede goals as we are fucking clueless at times

We didn't have a small team this season but somehow fucking Oscar scored a header against us

 

[panoma]

We simply must train more on both defensive and offensive set pieces, so many easy goals to be had.
We concede on way to many set pieces, and considering how many corners we get we should be scoring many more.

Such an easy thing to work on to!

 

[JackDaniels18]

Just shows how ignorant fans are I guess. If you think about it makes sense. Surely preventing a header going in on the line is less effective than preventing the actual header happening in the first place. Considering statistics seem to back it up it seems logical to not put men on the posts.

Surely having a player like Lennon in the box will make no difference, surely he would be better placed on the line?

 

[Ironskullll]

A lot of coaches say this, but I don't think you find any fan that agrees with it.

Whichever player(s) go on the post, he/they are being reactive - they could be busy in the box actually attacking the ball and helping prevent attackers getting to the ball in the first place and therefore making the attacking header less likely. I can sort of see the logic - lots of ifs and buts though.

 

[dondo]

Been looking at our potential line up next year:

Lloris

Walker Kaboul Vertonghen Rose (?)

Sandro Dembele Paulinho

Lennon Benteke Bale

And looking at the team except for Rose/BAE/? and Lennon all the players who over 6ft in height. Surely we should finally be able to threaten from set pieces and be able to defend corners with a team that big next year!

Thats a great point defending and attacking set pieces ( not encluding direct shooting set piecrs)cost us big time last year. Must have only sored 3 or 4 all season, and condeding a goal a game for the last 10 games.

 

[Tottenham_God]

Lets face it, sometimes there is just nothing you can do against some players. For example Tim Cahill was a freak scored more than anyone I've seen with his head and he is 5'10 or 5'11 perfect leap and timing combined with excellent delivery and really what can we do but foul them.

I think not conceding stupid free kicks in dangerous areas is a good start, also closing the wide man down better is imperative, to many times you see benny sorta waltz out half assed attempting to at least look like his trying to block a cross.

ps. I think Paulinho will help

 

[EnfieldYiddo]

Anyone saying covering the posts is unnecessary is ridiculous.

It's one of the footballing basic alongside the 'don't pass across your own goal' rule.

We would of saved ourselves potentially 3-4 goals last season if we had men on the posts... As someone pointed out above, we can afford the 2 extra man loss as very rarely will the opposition send up 10 men.

 

[Geyzer Soze]

Not my words, those of a friend who is very clued up tactically ... just copy/ pasting because I think what he says makes alot of sense in this context and I am too lazy to put it in my own words when his will do nicely!

"I feel like you don't sacrifice defensive capability by stationing one or two guys there so much as you sacrifice counterattacking potential.

The guys on the post are often some of the smallest in the team; Modric used to draw post duty a lot, Lennon too. Those guys aren't going to be marking the other lot's set piece threats anyway. They're just there to make the goal a little bit smaller, at the expense of being in position to spring something on the break.

My guess is that the number of goals you save by having a man or two on the post(s) is very small. The majority of the chances from corners must come from less than 10-12 yards out; it's pretty much got to be hit straight at the post man for him to have any chance of preventing a goal.

For a team like Tottenham that's so dangerous on the break, I think I'd prefer to free up that extra player or two from post duty and have him/them hanging out near the top of the 18-yard box instead, waiting to hoover up and control loose balls and initiate a counterattack. That we have keeper in Lloris who's aggressive on corners and likes to punch the ball out plays into this as well"

 

[haxman]

We simply must train more on both defensive and offensive set pieces, so many easy goals to be had.
We concede on way to many set pieces, and considering how many corners we get we should be scoring many more.

Such an easy thing to work on to!

I think over the last few seasons only Newcastle have a worse corner to goal conversion ratio than us.

 

[Main Man]

The two men on the posts are absolutely essential in my opinion.

But the most important player is the player who stands just infront of the front post about 6 yards out, especially when we have a keeper who likes to come out for the ball anywhere in the region beyond.

It is actually statistically proven that said player intervenes on corners, more than any other purposely placed player. From my perspective as a football manager, this really is evident - even if it is down to the fact that they largely just deal with poor corners.

I will try and dig the research out later.

Martin Jol used to put Berbatov there, he just wasn't very good at it. He always let a defender get in front of him and flick it on. Bale took up that position a few times this season (notably the area he attacks on an offensive corner), but he was also very poor at defending that area.

Defending corners really is straight forward. It is infuriating to see us make such a meal out of it.