How do you see us lining up?

[DogsOfWar]

In my mind the Chadli, Erikse, Lamela combo would suit playing with Soldado better.
We pass the ball and rarely look to cross it in the air so Ade's size advantage is meaningless. Soldado's quicker feet and movement would be a better fit.

Away from home at Stoke or West Ham I would have Ade all day long but at WHL I would like to see Soldado given another chance.

I would even make the same case for Lennon at the moment, the Chadli, Eriksen, Lamela formation is a bit one dimensional. And whilst I believe they are all better footballers than the little man, he provides something different.
At the very least they need to be an active part of the bench. Last Saturday at 2-0 we could have done with throwing that pair on to provide a different threat as Dembele and Townsend are not exactly game changers.

 

[Shea]

Curious why you think it evolves into a 4-3-3?

Everything that has been done since Pochettino got here, including formations and acquisitions, strongly suggest he is sticking to 4-2-3-1 - with the midfield split between two, pretty defined, groups. 2 CMs who stay behind the attack and support, and 3 AMs who form most of the attack, in partnership with a striker, and two outside backs who provide width.

Because I think he will look to play a 3 pronged attack with two wing forwards and a central striker so that leaves 3 in the middle after the back four

there's probably very little difference between what I have written and what you are suggesting other than on paper - move one of my CM's slightly forward and pull the WF's slightly back to make the striker look more like a loan striker and it suddenly looks different on paper but probably not so different in practice

 

[Coyboy]

I'm

Don't get you're panties in a twist. It's just my opinion that Soldado would suit us better. Yes, Ade has scored more goals but given he's played in this league for 9 years and in this team for 3 years I'd bloody well expect him to out score someone else who's just arrived. And, by a lot more than 3 goals.

For me, watching Ade is like pulling teeth. I find that he's never in the box when he should be because he's in the channels getting in someone else's way. He holds the ball up but is so slow to do anything with it that the whole attack, usually, breaks down. Sometimes he wants to play, sometimes he doesn't. Which, is why I would like to see Soldado given another shot. If he does jack in 10 games, then by all means, bench him and get rid in January.

I'm not. I am just pointing out that your assertion that holding up the ball is all he does (which isn't worthless) is patently wrong.

It may be your opinion but it's based on incorrect 'statistics'.

 

[TimNiceButDim]

I'm


I'm not. I am just pointing out that your assertion that holding up the ball is all he does (which isn't worthless) is patently wrong.

It may be your opinion but it's based on incorrect 'statistics'.

Firstly, holding the ball up and doing nothing with it is completely worthless, it also stops any form of counterattack, invites pressure and is incredibly frustrating to watch, not just for the fans but I'd assume for his teammates as well, who've just sprinted half the length of the pitch to be ignored. We, and his teammates, then get the pleasure of watching him fanny about with the ball, miss the runner, fake left, miss another runner, fake right, repeat, almost lose it, get it back, fake left, win a throw in, sit down for a bit, look pleased with himself, lethargically amble forward and then disappear for the next 20 minutes because he's overexerted himself.

Secondly, considering you've actually repeated the 'statistics' of Ade scoring 14 and Soldado scoring 11, it's quite odd to now claim they are incorrect.

As I've stated quite clearly in my original post, my opinion is that I'd like to see Soldado start a few league matches, this is based on the fact that watching Ade play annoys the shit out of me. You pointed out that he's scored more goals than Soldado, which is entirely true, but not anywhere near enough goals for me to enjoy watching him play or to be pleased that he's in the starting 11.

We clearly have conflicting opinions but unlike you, I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong because since I was about 11, I've been able to comprehend that different people think differently. You can keep telling me that I'm wrong but my view that Ade's a lazy c*nt, who's only out to make himself look good, was formed sometime during 2008 and is highly unlikely to change now.

 

[SpursSince1980]

All I can say is that after the Liverpool game, two things are clear: firstly, our manager needs to have a plan b for his formation. As everyone has pointed out both before and after the Pool game, we were outnumbered in the midfield. So, if that happens, does he have the tactical nouse to change the lineup to counter. Secondly, the fascination with Bentaleb must come to an end. He has promise, but is not ready for the big games. I am much more comfortable seeing one of our more experienced internationals partnered with Cap.

 

[Coyboy]

Firstly, holding the ball up and doing nothing with it is completely worthless, it also stops any form of counterattack, invites pressure and is incredibly frustrating to watch, not just for the fans but I'd assume for his teammates as well, who've just sprinted half the length of the pitch to be ignored. We, and his teammates, then get the pleasure of watching him fanny about with the ball, miss the runner, fake left, miss another runner, fake right, repeat, almost lose it, get it back, fake left, win a throw in, sit down for a bit, look pleased with himself, lethargically amble forward and then disappear for the next 20 minutes because he's overexerted himself.

Secondly, considering you've actually repeated the 'statistics' of Ade scoring 14 and Soldado scoring 11, it's quite odd to now claim they are incorrect.

As I've stated quite clearly in my original post, my opinion is that I'd like to see Soldado start a few league matches, this is based on the fact that watching Ade play annoys the shit out of me. You pointed out that he's scored more goals than Soldado, which is entirely true, but not anywhere near enough goals for me to enjoy watching him play or to be pleased that he's in the starting 11.

We clearly have conflicting opinions but unlike you, I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong because since I was about 11, I've been able to comprehend that different people think differently. You can keep telling me that I'm wrong but my view that Ade's a lazy c*nt, who's only out to make himself look good, was formed sometime during 2008 and is highly unlikely to change now.

No I said they were the total goals in all competitions, and that mdny of Soldado were pens. Their league record is much different, Ade is far superior.

The rest of your post is irrelevant and I have little inclination to discuss it with someone who hurls abuse at one of our players. Clearly that bias is clouding your ability to understand basic maths and English.

 

[TimNiceButDim]

Which is exa

No I said they were the total goals in all competitions, and that mdny of Soldado were pens. Their league record is much different, Ade is far superior.

The rest of your post is irrelevant and I have little inclination to discuss it with someone who hurls abuse at one of our players. Clearly that bias is clouding your ability to understand basic maths and English.

So when you say it's the total number of goals scored in all competitions, it's a correct 'statistic' and can be used to reinforce your point. However, when I say it's the total number of goals scored in all competitions it's an incorrect 'statistic' and I don't understand 'basic maths'....sure, that makes sense.

What you seem to have failed to grasp is that my opinion is not based on statistics so whether I'm illiterate or unable to add and subtract is neither here nor there. I believe the title of this thread is 'How do you (as in me) see us lining up?'. To which I've replied, Soldado up top because watching Ade frustrates me. This isn't the 'who has a better goal scoring record?' thread to which I've replied 'Soldado, he's the messiah!'.

The stats on how goals were scored are there for us all to see, there is no dispute about who out scored who and how they did it.

Going by your logic of only the players with the best statistics in this league can play, we'd never see Lamela, Chadli, Soldado, Bentaleb, Kane, Fazio, Stambouli, Yedlin, Chiriches, Mason or Vorm play for us or ever buy a player from a foreign league.

I didn't know I was able to hurl abuse at someone I've never spoken to, who's several thousands miles away on a different continent via an Internet forum that they've likely never heard of. Cool trick.

 

[Coyboy]

Which is exa


So when you say it's the total number of goals scored in all competitions, it's a correct 'statistic' and can be used to reinforce your point. However, when I say it's the total number of goals scored in all competitions it's an incorrect 'statistic' and I don't understand 'basic maths'....sure, that makes sense.

What you seem to have failed to grasp is that my opinion is not based on statistics so whether I'm illiterate or unable to add and subtract is neither here nor there. I believe the title of this thread is 'How do you (as in me) see us lining up?'. To which I've replied, Soldado up top because watching Ade frustrates me. This isn't the 'who has a better goal scoring record?' thread to which I've replied 'Soldado, he's the messiah!'.

The stats on how goals were scored are there for us all to see, there is no dispute about who out scored who and how they did it.

Going by your logic of only the players with the best statistics in this league can play, we'd never see Lamela, Chadli, Soldado, Bentaleb, Kane, Fazio, Stambouli, Yedlin, Chiriches, Mason or Vorm play for us or ever buy a player from a foreign league.

I didn't know I was able to hurl abuse at someone I've never spoken to, who's several thousands miles away on a different continent via an Internet forum that they've likely never heard of. Cool trick.

Yes but I originally said league goals, Europa doesn't interest me. If you analyse them on goals to games, taking into account the number of pens Soldado scored then the difference of 3 you refer to is, if not incorrect, very disingenuous.

I originally countered your ridiculous suggestion that all Ade offers is holding up by saying he is far superior at scoring goals in the league- whether holding up is completely worthless (which I would disagree with) is beside the point, scoring in the league doesn't hurt.

 

[yido_number1]

Yes but I originally said league goals, Europa doesn't interest me. If you analyse them on goals to games, taking into account the number of pens Soldado scored then the difference of 3 you refer to is, if not incorrect, very disingenuous.

I originally countered your ridiculous suggestion that all Ade offers is holding up by saying he is far superior at scoring goals in the league- whether holding up is completely worthless (which I would disagree with) is beside the point, scoring in the league doesn't hurt.

Both are good players and offer something slightly different and both have area's they can improve. Soldado offers greater potential in a fluid front 4 where we are playing short passes around their box but he needs to find better form in the box than he did in the first year. Ade is better when we are breaking quickly chasing the long ball and stretching defences.

Both of the points you are making are correct about the individual players; Ade doesn't release quick enough and does often end up playing backwards. Soldado hasn't been good enough in front of goal and seems to get isolated more than Ade.

At the moment I would stick with Ade with Soldado getting more and more game time until he improves in front of goal and we work out a way to stop him being isolated.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

The entire Soldado over Adebayor is not really as much of a great subject for philosophic and/or rhetoric discussion as some would believe. It is inevitable that Soldado will get a run in the league. It is simply just going to happen. It might be sooner, it might be later, but it's not really worth fighting over. Personally, I'd start Soldado vs. really good defenders. Reason is, Adebayor waits, runs, and make his attempt based on the notion that defenders cock up, and when they do, he'll be there to score. It's not an unholy approach to the game, it's pragmatic, and does provide results. However, the better defenders, the fewer mistakes, thus the fewer chances for Adebyor. Soldado is not solemnly dependent on the opponent not doing his job, and will, at the end of the day get his chance to prove him self. Whether his self-esteem will be around for him to take that chance remains to be seen.

 

[Coyboy]

Both are good players and offer something slightly different and both have area's they can improve. Soldado offers greater potential in a fluid front 4 where we are playing short passes around their box but he needs to find better form in the box than he did in the first year. Ade is better when we are breaking quickly chasing the long ball and stretching defences.

Both of the points you are making are correct about the individual players; Ade doesn't release quick enough and does often end up playing backwards. Soldado hasn't been good enough in front of goal and seems to get isolated more than Ade.

At the moment I would stick with Ade with Soldado getting more and more game time until he improves in front of goal and we work out a way to stop him being isolated.

Fair enough, but at some point if not now or before we need to realise that it's not the team's job to make Soldado play better or finish chances. Last season he missed a good number of sitters.

I'm not sure that this criticism of "releasing the ball quick enough" is fair or correct. I can't, off the top of my head, think of times that this is valid and in any case, this isn't basketball there is no rush to release the ball if a pass isn't on. Ade so far has a good goal and assist to his name. He should have played better and scored on Sunday but that was an off day for the entire team against a better team to which I confess that I though we were nearer in terms of quality.

For me, there is no argument as to who is better. Ade on his day is unplayable. Soldado on his day scores nice penalties and slick finishes against poor opposition.

 

[Kendall]

What about the previous season for Ade?

4 goals all season in PL, what a God striker, makes Ronaldo look like shite.

Yeah, he was crap that year, after returning to the ACN where his friends were murdered. PTSD will do that to you mate.

What about every other season where he's been a consistent goalscorer everywhere he's been?

That season was an anomaly in a long term premier league career, yet you grip to it even though he recovered last year and was our top goalscorer, despite not being involved for the first quarter.

 

[jezz]

Fair enough, but at some point if not now or before we need to realise that it's not the team's job to make Soldado play better or finish chances.



I'm not sure that this criticism of "releasing the ball quick enough" is fair or correct. I can't, off the top of my head, think of times that this is valid and in any case, this isn't basketball there is no rush to release the ball if a pass isn't on. Ade so far has a good goal and assist to his name. He should have played better and scored on Sunday but that was an off day for the entire team against a better team to which I confess that I though we were nearer in terms of quality.

For me, there is no argument as to who is better. Ade on his day is unplayable. Soldado on his day scores nice penalties and slick finishes against poor opposition.

What you mean like Adès chance on Sunday?
See it works both ways.

 

[Coyboy]

What you mean like Adès chance on Sunday?
See it works both ways.

Yeah I just mentioned that.

 

[Bulletspur]

Fair enough, but at some point if not now or before we need to realise that it's not the team's job to make Soldado play better or finish chances. Last season he missed a good number of sitters.

.

This is correct but to be fair, if you remember Ade's first season with us, he was just as culpable. (I am talking about missing sitters here, not goals scored.)

 

[yido_number1]

Fair enough, but at some point if not now or before we need to realise that it's not the team's job to make Soldado play better or finish chances. Last season he missed a good number of sitters.

I'm not sure that this criticism of "releasing the ball quick enough" is fair or correct. I can't, off the top of my head, think of times that this is valid and in any case, this isn't basketball there is no rush to release the ball if a pass isn't on. Ade so far has a good goal and assist to his name. He should have played better and scored on Sunday but that was an off day for the entire team against a better team to which I confess that I though we were nearer in terms of quality.

For me, there is no argument as to who is better. Ade on his day is unplayable. Soldado on his day scores nice penalties and slick finishes against poor opposition.

The funny thing is Soldado's finishing in Spain was excellent and that should of been the one constant when he came here. Unfortunately its let him down so far. I agree Ade deserves to be in the team at the moment but if Soldado can hit his potential I think he will be the better option in the future.

 

[Coyboy]

This is correct but to be fair, if you remember Ade's first season with us, he was just as culpable. (I am talking about missing sitters here, not goals scored.)

Yet he still managed 1 in 2, just like last season. In the league, I am not going to qualify that again as that is what I am talking about.

FFS, I am not saying he has never missed a sitter- who hasn't? But his goal return is pretty bloody good and short of signing Falcao or Suarez I am not sure if we can do better. Soldado certainly isn't the answer on current evidence.

 

[Coyboy]

The funny thing is Soldado's finishing in Spain was excellent and that should of been the one constant when he came here. Unfortunately its let him down so far. I agree Ade deserves to be in the team at the moment but if Soldado can hit his potential I think he will be the better option in the future.

Sure it was, I'd seriously question Levy's sanity if we paid £26 mil for a striker with no scoring record. But Morientes had an excellent scoring record in Spain and wasn't great here. If he can his potential assumes he has the potential to be a good scorer here. I am not saying he doesn't, and hope that if he gets his chance he performs. But for the moment, I'd have Ade all day long and to be honest we shouldn't be relying on Soldado to hit his potential at his age and stage of career. He should have done a lot better last season and if fit and playing this season, he has no real excuse other than maybe he just isn't cut out for this league.

 

[jezz]

Yeah I just mentioned that.

Sorry mate you can't make excuses for one and criticize another for exactly the same thing.
That's not how it works.
Ade scores goals, yes I agree.
But he's been here quite a while (EPL)
Bashing Soldado after one season and saying he only score's penalties is wrong.
Penalties count as goals, they win games.
Would you rather we miss them?
Saying Ade is unplayable on the day?
Agreed mate, but them days are few and far between.
If he doesn't score, he doesn't actually do a lot else (imho).
It's a team game and personally think Soldado gives more to the team.
These are all opinions of course.

 

[Coyboy]

Sorry mate you can't make excuses for one and criticize another for exactly the same thing.
That's not how it works.
Ade scores goals, yes I agree.
But he's been here quite a while (EPL)
Bashing Soldado after one season and saying he only score's penalties is wrong.
Penalties count as goals, they win games.
Would you rather we miss them?
Saying Ade is unplayable on the day?
Agreed mate, but them days are few and far between.
If he doesn't score, he doesn't actually do a lot else (imho).
It's a team game and personally think Soldado gives more to the team.
These are all opinions of course.

See above, I'm not making excuses. Adebayor misses chances but in 2/3 of seasons with us he has a 1 in 2 record in the league. I can live with the odd miss.

I am not 'bashing' anyone and I am not criticsing scoring penalties. Don't be stupid. But when you take away those pens, you're left with a very modest return. Soldado is new to this league and country, fine, but then we knew that when we signed him. If he performs to the right standard, he may be the next Suarez. If he doesn't he may be the next Kezman.

To nip a point in the bud, Adebayor offers far more in my view than Soldado even when he's not scoring but that's a pretty much moot point because he does score and aside from twelve yards with no pressure and a keeper stuck to his line, Soldado well struggles doesn't he?