I have never been so embarrassed to be a Spurs fan..

[guiltyparty]

Earlier you labelled anyone singing the 'you're fucking shit' song a twat...is that an insult?
Hope you can hear this question from up there on your high horse.

I'm defending the right to call another football team shit, which seems to upset your sensitive little soul, I'm not insulting fellow Spurs fans like you are.

Yes I did – I said it in general, I didn't aim it at anyone, but I stand by it. What's your point?

I didn't tell you to leave the discussion for insulting anyone, which is what I was drawing attention to, so your post makes literally no sense.

It's not sensitive, but keep saying it like that makes it true, or that justifies the line of argument. It doesn't.

And why does being a Spurs fan give anyone special dispensation from not being insulted? There are nice people and idiots who support every football club. As this forum regularly proves.

 

[Streetspur77]

You know the one I mean. You get people defending that, too.

A party when Sol Campbell dies is just immature, unnecessary and nasty. A bit like the modern world, then.

No, I very much understand football. It's why this stuff doesn't affect me. It's business. More fool you for thinking otherwise.

Well then I feel for you mate, football is about stories, heros, villains and emotion otherwise as someone said earlier it's just a bunch of blokes kicking a ball around, and I honestly don't think so many people would be invested in it if that's all it was. But if you can't see that then no wonder you don't see what judas did as wrong, you might get on quite well with him actually.

Also I'm sorry but I honestly don't know which song you're talking about and I would never defend people singing about those things

 

[guiltyparty]

I'm sorry but I honestly don't know which song you're talking about and I would never defend people singing about those things

Well then I feel for you mate, football is about stories, heros, villains and emotion otherwise as someone said earlier it's just a bunch of blokes kicking a ball around, and I honestly don't think so many people would be invested in it if that's all it was. But if you can't see that then no wonder you don't see what judas did as wrong, you might get on quite well with him.

It's not 'wrong', it is what it is. At the time it annoyed me a great deal, yes, for obvious reasons. I can't stand Sol Campbell, as it goes – I don't like what I've seen of him, he comes across terribly on TV. He is entirely self-obsessed. So I totally understand why people don't like him.

Wishing he was dead and the rest? If you hold on to something like that, years later, seriously, you need to talk to someone, as it says more about you than him.

I focus on the great memories, not the bad ones. I'd rather sing about people that did great things for us, not spend all our energies on the few rogues that crossed our path. When we don't even have songs for all our starting 11, I think it's embarrassing we spend so much time on him frankly.

And yes, that IS subjective.

 

[BujuBanton]

“I have never been so embarrassed to be a spurs fan....”

Exactly how I felt when i read the OP.

You’d have cried if you’d been on the shelf in the 80s sunshine.

 

[thebenjamin]

You know the one I mean. But cool, a party when Sol Campbell dies is just immature, unnecessary and nasty. A bit like the modern world, then.

No, I very much understand football. It's why this stuff doesn't affect me. It's business. More fool you for thinking otherwise. But get upset about a guy you've never met doing something decades ago that had very little direct effect on you. God forbid anything really bad actually happening

You say no one should be emotionally affected by football as it's just a business. And more fool anyone who gets emotionally affected by anything that happens in football because it doesn't 'directly' affect them.

Are you sure you 'very much understand football'?

 

[bomberH]

At the time, sure. But now? I'm a grown man. I don't pretend that people I don't even know cause me real pain. It's not, it's pantomime pain.

Nah, it’s not pantomime pain. Pantomime pain is completely fake. I don’t think you’re taking into account how much Spurs means to some fans. Fans who spend half their wages following their team around for years and years through thick and thin. Idolising players, naming pets or kids after them, buying shirts with their name on the back etc etc. Then that player lies about how much he wants to stay, lets his contract run down on purpose and joins our biggest rivals when he could’ve been sold to Utd for £20m a year earlier. Then goes on to win almost everything with them.

I can only assume from your statement above - ‘it’s business, more fool you for thinking otherwise’ - you support Spurs but haven’t devoted a large portion of your life basing everything around it like lots of us have. We all know it’s a business, but we all know it’s much much more than just a business.

It’s not actual pain, correct. It’s several years of footballing misery after being lied to by our captain. Several years of forking out thousands and thousands of pounds of watching dogshit partly as a result of what he did.

 

[Makkaveli101]

Welcome to the sport known as football where fans sing nasty songs about rival players.

 

[Hazardousman]

"I'm so right that anyone who disagrees with me about a highly subjective subject is uneducated"

That’s the problem when using reductionism when it comes to emotions or opinions, it simply doesn’t work.

To call someone “uneducated” because they share a different opinion to you is not only a pompous way of thinking, it’s also dangerous when it comes to trying to forward discussion and break down barriers with other human beings because you are essentially insulting their intellect based on your own personal belief system.

I think Guilty is a good poster and I think what he is trying to say is, if you use racism or homophobia when chanting then you are likely to be “uneducated” which I would agree with in the sense that you are uninformed about how to treat other human beings with empathy and respect but I would also say that the way in which the post was worded made it sound like “Everyone who disagrees with me is uneducated.”

That’s one of the main reasons I hate social media, it has brought a lot of this kind of attitude out of the woodwork.

 

[Streetspur77]

It's not 'wrong', it is what it is. At the time it annoyed me a great deal, yes, for obvious reasons. I can't stand Sol Campbell, as it goes – I don't like what I've seen of him, he comes across terribly on TV. He is entirely self-obsessed. So I totally understand why people don't like him.

Wishing he was dead and the rest? If you hold on to something like that, years later, seriously, you need to talk to someone, as it says more about you than him.

I focus on the great memories, not the bad ones. I'd rather sing about people that did great things for us, not spend all our energies on the few rogues that crossed our path. When we don't even have songs for all our starting 11, I think it's embarrassing we spend so much time on him frankly.

And yes, that IS subjective.

No one in this thread has wished him dead, pretty much everyone in the thread has said that chant is in bad taste and that chant isn't wishing him death on him either

Yes it very much is subjective, I'm fine with you having an opinion, the problem arose when you weren't fine with anyone but those who agree with you having an opinion, or if they did they were inferior to you

 

[Gb160]

Yes I did – I said it in general, I didn't aim it at anyone, but I stand by it. What's your point?

I didn't tell you to leave the discussion for insulting anyone, which is what I was drawing attention to, so your post makes literally no sense.

It's not sensitive, but keep saying it like that makes it true, or that justifies the line of argument. It doesn't.

And why does being a Spurs fan give anyone special dispensation from not being insulted? There are nice people and idiots who support every football club. As this forum regularly proves.

It is sensitive, very much so.
I get the impression that you really like telling people off, but exclusively on the internet, ...but here's an idea, go to an away game, and tell the lads singing it they're twats and that it upsets you, I'll wait here for you tell me how it went.
Virtue signalling of the highest order.

 

[thebenjamin]

“I have never been so embarrassed to be a spurs fan....”

Exactly how I felt when i read the OP.

You’d have cried if you’d been on the shelf in the 80s sunshine.

Indeed!

United sing about Heysel
Liverpool (and everyone else when they're playing United) sing about Munich
We sing about Judas
Arsenal sing about the latest, controversial interpretation of 'Waiting for Godot' at the National

 

[Streetspur77]

That’s the problem when using reductionism when it comes to emotions or opinions, it simply doesn’t work.

To call someone “uneducated” because they share a different opinion to you is not only a pompous way of thinking, it’s also dangerous when it comes to trying to forward discussion and break down barriers with other human beings because you are essentially insulting their intellect based on your own personal belief system.

I think Guilty is a good poster and I think what he is trying to say is, if you use racism or homophobia when chanting then you are likely to be “uneducated” which I would agree with in the sense that you are uninformed about how to treat other human beings with empathy and respect but I would also say that the way in which the post was worded made it sound like “Everyone who disagrees with me is uneducated.”

That’s one of the main reasons I hate social media, it has brought a lot of this kind of attitude out of the woodwork.

Fair enough if that's what he meant but no one in this thread has been homophobic or racist and as far as I'm aware no one has defended this racist, homophobic chant (which I haven't even heard of)

 

[guiltyparty]

Nah, it’s not pantomime pain. Pantomime pain is completely fake. I don’t think you’re taking into account how much Spurs means to some fans. Fans who spend half their wages following their team around for years and years through thick and thin. Idolising players, naming pets or kids after them, buying shirts with their name on the back etc etc. Then that player lies about how much he wants to stay, lets his contract run down on purpose and joins our biggest rivals when he could’ve been sold to Utd for £20m a year earlier. Then goes on to win almost everything with them.

I can only assume from your statement above - ‘it’s business, more fool you for thinking otherwise’ - you support Spurs but haven’t devoted a large portion of your life basing everything around it like lots of us have. We all know it’s a business, but we all know it’s much much more than just a business.

It’s not actual pain, correct. It’s several years of footballing misery after being lied to by our captain. Several years of forking out thousands and thousands of pounds of watching dogshit partly as a result of what he did.

I get all of that, don't get me wrong, I do, but doesn't make it logical, or a reason for wishing someone's death. When I was in my 20s, sure. But there's a time when you grow up, no? And realise that contextually, it doesn't really matter that much? No? Or you just keep on holding on to that for the rest of your life?

Players lie all the time now, if they didn't always. Van Persie did to Arsenal what Campbell did to us. I guess I'm just completely desensitised to it. I don't know how people can still hold on to that when what he did is totally normal now.

I dunno. I would actually argue that Sol defecting was a good thing for the club, in some ways. As what he did undoubtedly shaped Daniel Levy's treatment of players and player contracts. So arguably we'd never be where we are without that episode. We're never going to let a player run down their contract again unless we want them to, that's for sure.

The club were as to blame as he was. Don't believe their lies, Daniel. And he doesn't…

 

[Hazardousman]

Nah, it’s not pantomime pain. Pantomime pain is completely fake. I don’t think you’re taking into account how much Spurs means to some fans. Fans who spend half their wages following their team around for years and years through thick and thin. Idolising players, naming pets or kids after them, buying shirts with their name on the back etc etc. Then that player lies about how much he wants to stay, lets his contract run down on purpose and joins our biggest rivals when he could’ve been sold to Utd for £20m a year earlier. Then goes on to win almost everything with them.

I can only assume from your statement above - ‘it’s business, more fool you for thinking otherwise’ - you support Spurs but haven’t devoted a large portion of your life basing everything around it like lots of us have. We all know it’s a business, but we all know it’s much much more than just a business.

It’s not actual pain, correct. It’s several years of footballing misery after being lied to by our captain. Several years of forking out thousands and thousands of pounds of watching dogshit partly as a result of what he did.

And this is why I always say, people need to understand why emotion matters, people who love spurs are emotionally invested, the club is as much a part of their life as a family member, to expect people to not react emotionally sometimes (like Match day threads for example) is ludicrous, people spend more time trying to micro manage how people should be supporting the club and forgetting that the person sitting on their computer or opposite them just loves the club and wants the best, they just show it in a different way.

Even after 30+ years I still celebrate a spurs goal like it’s the last spurs goal I will ever see hit the back of a net.

 

[thebenjamin]

I get all of that, don't get me wrong, I do, but doesn't make it logical, or a reason for wishing someone's death. When I was in my 20s, sure. But there's a time when you grow up, no? And realise that contextually, it doesn't really matter that much? No? Or you just keep on holding on to that for the rest of your life?

Players lie all the time now, if they didn't always. Van Persie did to Arsenal what Campbell did to us. I guess I'm just completely desensitised to it. I don't know how people can still hold on to that when what he did is totally normal now.

I dunno. I would actually argue that Sol defecting was a good thing for the club, in some ways. As what he did undoubtedly shaped Daniel Levy's treatment of players and player contracts. So arguably we'd never be where we are without that episode. We're never going to let a player run down their contract again unless we want them to, that's for sure.

Do you think they really really really want him to die?

 

[Hazardousman]

Fair enough if that's what he meant but no one in this thread has been homophobic or racist and as far as I'm aware no one has defended this racist, homophobic chant (which I haven't even heard of)

I agree mate and for the record, we may have our differences on Sissoko but I think you’re a good poster as well.

 

[guiltyparty]

Do you think they really really really want him to die?

So it IS pantomime then?

So it's grown men and women, spending their scant spare time and their hard-earned money on pretending to wish someone would die? Rather than coming up with songs about our players, the best team Spurs have had in a generation?

Just so it's established.

 

[guiltyparty]

It is sensitive, very much so.
I get the impression that you really like telling people off, but exclusively on the internet, ...but here's an idea, go to an away game, and tell the lads singing it they're twats and that it upsets you, I'll wait here for you tell me how it went.
Virtue signalling of the highest order.

Damn, you just won the argument. Such a cutting riposte.

So you judge the validity of an argument by whether someone can beat someone else up? Yeah, thought as much.

The 80s called, it wants you back.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

TBH the OP was so embarrassed he only posted the twice ....

Like fishing with grenades by the looks of things.

 

[bomberH]

I get all of that, don't get me wrong, I do, but doesn't make it logical, or a reason for wishing someone's death. When I was in my 20s, sure. But there's a time when you grow up, no? And realise that contextually, it doesn't really matter that much? No? Or you just keep on holding on to that for the rest of your life?

Players lie all the time now, if they didn't always. Van Persie did to Arsenal what Campbell did to us. I guess I'm just completely desensitised to it. I don't know how people can still hold on to that when what he did is totally normal now.

I dunno. I would actually argue that Sol defecting was a good thing for the club, in some ways. As what he did undoubtedly shaped Daniel Levy's treatment of players and player contracts. So arguably we'd never be where we are without that episode. We're never going to let a player run down their contract again unless we want them to, that's for sure.

The club were as to blame as he was. Don't believe their lies, Daniel. And he doesn't…

Yep my argument isn’t about the chants of him dying, I agree that’s not in shit taste and I wouldn’t sing it myself (though I wouldn’t stop others like I did when someone near me sung a racist Sissoko chant a few weeks ago).

My post was just in response to how normal and unemotive you made the Campbell saga out to be, comparing it to a normal business etc.

Good point about it being a turning point re players running down their contracts. He’s still a massively unlikeable **** though.