Is Redknapp Tactically good Enough!
- Thread starter kkemal
- Start date
Breezer
Position??? Magician!!!!
- Aug 27, 2004
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Why cause we say it how it is!?
Most peeps only want to hear "oh we was unlucky" "we are brilliant" "jenas is quality" "corluka is class"
Then you have others who don't watch Spurs through their Tottenham Specs, and realise we are not so great but we have improved so much and we still have plenty room for improvement.
Saying something bad about our team is like stepping on egg shells!
Original # 10
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2008
- 1,013
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No point playing Palacios when he's playing awful....
A supposed blocker who is struggling to do just that over a baller who can tackle and on decent form
I know what I'd rather have...
Lets park the bus in future away from the Lane... just like we did last season?!
A supposed blocker who is struggling to do just that over a baller who can tackle and on decent form
I know what I'd rather have...
Lets park the bus in future away from the Lane... just like we did last season?!
BringBack_leGin
Well-Known Member
- Jul 28, 2004
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I understand your frustration, and the laptop on which I watched the Spammers game was regularly in danger of meeting the same fate as the remote for the TV I watched the Utd 2-5 reverse on, but I have full faith that we will snap out of it and, as we did last season, make up for these disappointments with a couple of really good results which balance them out. That's football. Even the top teams lose games that they shouldn't, and there aren't really games that you'd expect them to lose and they win, because they're are generally expected to win all games. I believe that over a season will win most games that we're meant to, but win more that we don't expect than we lose where we should have won.
You must realise, I am probably as overly optimistic a Spurs fan as you'll meet. I started this thread off the back of losing to Sunderland last season, when everyone was bitching and saying we'll never get fourth:
http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=58846
I also, in the 2points8games season, said quite publically that I'd bet my house that by the tenth game (this was after about 4 games) we'd be out of the shit and in the top 10. I was wrong on that occasion admittedly, and so far nobody has come to kick me out of my home.
Bobishism
*****istrator
- Aug 23, 2004
- 15,035
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An English 4-4-2 is the perfect counter to a 4-3-3, especially one that doesn't really employ wingers.
adiepf
Well-Known Member
- May 13, 2007
- 2,444
- 255
this is so true...
fact is all of us who are knocking HR tactical abillity have at one point or another come out & said he has done well in matches or whatever.....basically offering a balanced argument & yet the "kneejerk thread" brigade fail to see ANY bad in him....he is god!
fact: HR has done a lot of good for us
fact: HR has made tactical mistakes
fact: HR himself said with 3 quality players we could win the league
fact: weve added VDV...
fact: HR is backtracking because his man management skills are now fading a little & we now can make 5-6th....
fact: thats not good enough & if at the end of the season thats where we finish then he should be replaced...
i dont give to hoots about harry or any other manager...i just care about spurs being succesfull (top4 & winning trophies)...if he cant do that this year move him on!
warning signs are there.....lets just see what happens
BringBack_leGin
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- Jul 28, 2004
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::shudder::
The new generation, carrying the TOY, michael69 and gibbs flame into the future!
Really? Jenas has been by far the most abused player on this forum in the time I've been posting, including by me, and often justifiably. It just so happens that right now, the previously superb Palacios is off the boil, and Jenas is playing relatively well.
There's a huge difference between a justified, reasonable criticism and some of the over the top, reactionary stuff you get around here. Yes, I understand that people can get emotional, and I'm no better than anyone in that respect, but when a player who has played very well over an extended period of time becomes 'shit' because of a bad patch, when a manager who has steered us higher than any other becomes 'tactically inept' because of a bad patch, and when a chairman who has bought a lot of talented players for us, and at a high cost, is accused of trying to protect his own wallet rather than improve the club, it gets on the nerves of those who try to remain reasonable.
BringBack_leGin
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- Jul 28, 2004
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On the first two, let me correct you a touch. We've actually added VDV, Sandro, Gallas and Pletikosa.
On the third, wouldn't you reassess your aspirations a little if you saw Defoe, Dawson, Gallas, King, Kaboul, Gomes and Ekotto all get injured at once? Five of those six players will always be in the side when fit.
The fourth point, well that is just horseshit I'm afraid to say. Should Wenger have been sacked because, having been regular league winners under him, he has now gone half a decade as the leagues 3rd or 4th best side? Should Ancelotti go if Chelsea fail to win the league this year? Should Pep Guardiola have gone because 2010 only brought one trophy, when 2009 brought six?
If we finish low down the table, then there'll be an argument for displacing Harry. There'll still be an arguement for keeping him and letting him try to build, however. If we finish 5th or 6th, that still puts us in very good stead to make another attempt for the top four next season, especially if we give a good showing this season in the CL to give our own players hope in our chances, as well as potential signings.
Or we could just sack Harry, let a new guy come in with a completely new set of players and a completely new wishlist of transfer targets. Who needs continuity when you have wims and instincts eh?
kkemal
kk
- Jun 15, 2008
- 187
- 0
- Thread starter
- #90
DL is playing a risky game!!! Back the manager or accept the fact that us spurs fans will go nuts if we dont achieve 4th!!
DL did this with Martin JOL!!!! the guy put us 5th 2 years running, he gives Comoli a list of targets and we sign Bent, Taarabt and YK!
Now once again we have a manager that IF given some money could do damage is let down buy DL!!!
Like i keep on saying, DL is not in this game for nothing else than end profit!!! and becuase HR is not allowed to bring in the 3 players he wanted he will eventually come under pressure because tactitcally he is set in his ways!
I hope i'm wrong!!!!
BringBack_leGin
Well-Known Member
- Jul 28, 2004
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ugh:
First of all, you say that DL will be remunerated if we make a profit and you basis this on your purported extensive knowledge of the industry, I'll look past my doubts about your knowledge and address this as if I buy it by merely asking if you realise that the better the club performs on the pitch, the more money the club will make through prize money, through merchandising and through sponsorships (such as the two huge sponsorships DL arranged for our club this summer gone)? Therefore, given that his pay packet, according to you, is so heavily influenced by the profits THFCPLC makes, surely it stands to reason that he'd do his best to earn as much as he can from himself by bringing the club as much success as possible.
Oh, and as Chairman of both Spurs, and of ENIC, the majority shareholder of Spurs, there's a pretty good chance that Levy decides how much he gets paid without too much opposition.
As for DL not giving Redknapp (the manager you so dearly love) the opportunity to sign players to take us to the next level, have you not noticed the expenditure on players since Harry took over? Palacios, 12m, Keane, 12m, Defoe, 14m, Crouch, 9m, Kranjcar, 2.5m, Naughton, 5m, Walker, 3m, Sandro, 6m, Van der Vaart, 8m. 71.5m over 4 transfer windows, with the only player sales I can remember that would have added to the coffers being Bent and Zokora. Then there are the new contracts that have been awarded to Huddlestone, Dawson, Modric, Bale, Lennon, King and Jenas in that time, all players who would have earnt a pretty penny beforehand anyway.
Redknapp has had more than enough money to play with, and he has already had a very good squad to work with beforehand. Not many managers go into a side who has never played in the Champions League and inherit this potential line up: Gomes, Corluka, Woodgate, King, Ekotto, Lennon, Huddlestone, Modric, Bale, Bent, Pavlyuchenko. Hell, even without the additions since, I'd fancy that team (if all fit) to, over a season, challenge high up the league, even if the dodgy strike combo meant ultimate failure.
The comparison to Utd makes me laugh. Man U have the largest stadium in the country, earning something like 3m just from the gate receipts per game, and have bonus money from reaching the latter stages of the Champions League constantly over the past two decades. Even then, they are in horrendous debt which is well known to be endangering their future. As for Chelsea, they have a loan from a billionaire owner which does not need to be repayed, and even then, since the initial stage when was the last time they payed 20m or above for a player?
Kyle Naughton was one of two young defenders we bought as a package. He isn't looking too hot, the other looks very promising. You don't think Utd and Chelsea bring in young players who they know that they'll probably make money on even if they aren't huge successes at the club? Daniel Sturridge went to Chelsea on a free, will probably never be a first team, but will definitely fetch a few million if he leaves. Utd have brought in Tosic for a fair penny, and moved him on at a loss because he didn't make it at all, while Bebe looks like going the same way. Both were young players who were never going to impact the first team any time soon. They did similar with Nani and only now, a few seasons later, is he established as a first teamer.
As for your gripe that we have not even bought one world class player despite making the Champions League (whatever world class actually means), I guess that depends on how highly you rate Van Der Vaart. I rate him extremely highly personally, and I'm sure most Spurs fans do.
As for what he did to MJ, the way it came out (halftime during that Getafe match, still the most surreal experience I've had at a match) that he'd been dismissed was awful, but is that down to DL or some idiot in the press department who cocked up the timing of the release? I don't see how he was otherwise treated badly. He'd had many good players provided for him, at a high cost, during his time with us. I don't care if you think Jol, Comolli, Levy or the tea lady bought the players, the fact of the matter is that it is incredibly naive to think that the purchase of any one player was ever done without Jol's approval. In Jols 19 games at Spurs, before being sacked, he could have happily fielder this team made up of players bought only while he'd been our manager: Cerny, free, Chimbonda, 6m, Dawson, 4m, Kaboul, 6m, Ekotto, 2.5m, Jenas, 8m, Zokora, 8m, Malbranque, 2.5m, Bale, 10m, Bent, 16m, Berbatov, 11m. That's not accounting for some of the (ranging from good to excellent) cheaper players signed under Jol like Lennon, Tainio, Mido, Huddlestone and YP.Lee. Jol was ultimately no longer doing it and we were in danger of going down, and Levy had already put his neck on the line with the rest of the board by sticking by Jol after an equally poor start when everyone was then calling for MJ's head. I loved the big guy, but looking at it dispassionately, he ran out of lives.
As for selling Berba and replacing him with Pav, ill thought out though that might seem, can you tell me which striker worth the money we got for Berbatov would have come to us without us being in the Champions League, unless we threw City style money at them? Unless you want us to through over 100k a week at a player when we're merely in the UEFA Cup, it just isn't going to happen.
We did reinvest in a player who had forged a pretty good career of goalscoring goals and had just heavily impressed over the course of an international tournament qualifying campaign, and then the tournament itself. It turned out to be a poor signing, but at the time the guy looked like he had the credentials we need, and we were never going to be able to get someone of the ilk of Berbatov unless we got as lucky as we did with the big sulk himself. We signed Berbatov as a guy who most people knew as a good goalscorer from the Bundesliga, nobody predicted he'd turn out to be one of Europes best players, at least nobody on this site, and I doubt that's something I'd miss as, if you can't tell by most post tally, I'm on this site quite a fucking lot. I don't think we banked any profit though. Berbatov and Keane combined brought in 50m roughly. That summer we bought Bentley, Modric, Pav, Gomes, Giovani and Corluka for around 67m, with Hutton and Woodgate having come in the previous January for another 16m, and Palacios, Keane, and Defoe to come next January for another 38m. Levy pocketed nothing, he threw a hell of a lot of money, far more than he'd have wanted I imagine, at trying to take us to the next level.
Lastly, why do I love Levy? I don't really love him, it's difficult to love a chairman. I do, however, think he is amongst the best, if not the best, chairmen in the league. I do believe that in his ten seasons (something I am writing a book about believe it or not) as our chairman, he has taken us from being a mediocre, mid table side to a side who can genuinely compete with the established heirachy. I do believe that he has learnt from the mistakes he has made (and there have been some). I feel that he has managed this without putting our financial stability at risk at any point. I believe that he has repaired our clubs very poor, Sugar inflicted, relations with the media and with the local borough, hence how close we are to finally getting approval for our new stadium. I believe, on top of all this, that he has always acted as somebody who genuinely loves the club and understands every single fan, because he is one himself, and that on occasion he might have made mistakes as a result of this (fancy new manager in Ramos, persisting with the legend Hoddle when it became obvious that he'd lost the dressing room, being a bit too quick to try and sign shiny expensive players despite a previously good policy of getting quality cheaply (Robainson, Huddlestone, Lennon) ).
This is all why I have a lot of time for Levy, because I believe that not only has he been very good for our club, and will continue to be, in terms of making progress, but because, at heart, beneath the Cambridge 1st in Economics and the fabulously wealthy uncle, he is one of us. Has he made mistakes? Of course. Are the outweighted by his successes? Definitely. We take the occasional step back (11th and 8th after 2 successive 5ths) but we bounce back and surpass even the previous (4th last season). Even if this season ends up not reaching expectations, I will go into next season fully expecting to bounce back, because I know that our chairman, who has so far given me reason to believe in him, will put in every effort to make it happen.
kkemal said:
First of all, you say that DL will be remunerated if we make a profit and you basis this on your purported extensive knowledge of the industry, I'll look past my doubts about your knowledge and address this as if I buy it by merely asking if you realise that the better the club performs on the pitch, the more money the club will make through prize money, through merchandising and through sponsorships (such as the two huge sponsorships DL arranged for our club this summer gone)? Therefore, given that his pay packet, according to you, is so heavily influenced by the profits THFCPLC makes, surely it stands to reason that he'd do his best to earn as much as he can from himself by bringing the club as much success as possible.
Oh, and as Chairman of both Spurs, and of ENIC, the majority shareholder of Spurs, there's a pretty good chance that Levy decides how much he gets paid without too much opposition.
As for DL not giving Redknapp (the manager you so dearly love) the opportunity to sign players to take us to the next level, have you not noticed the expenditure on players since Harry took over? Palacios, 12m, Keane, 12m, Defoe, 14m, Crouch, 9m, Kranjcar, 2.5m, Naughton, 5m, Walker, 3m, Sandro, 6m, Van der Vaart, 8m. 71.5m over 4 transfer windows, with the only player sales I can remember that would have added to the coffers being Bent and Zokora. Then there are the new contracts that have been awarded to Huddlestone, Dawson, Modric, Bale, Lennon, King and Jenas in that time, all players who would have earnt a pretty penny beforehand anyway.
Redknapp has had more than enough money to play with, and he has already had a very good squad to work with beforehand. Not many managers go into a side who has never played in the Champions League and inherit this potential line up: Gomes, Corluka, Woodgate, King, Ekotto, Lennon, Huddlestone, Modric, Bale, Bent, Pavlyuchenko. Hell, even without the additions since, I'd fancy that team (if all fit) to, over a season, challenge high up the league, even if the dodgy strike combo meant ultimate failure.
The comparison to Utd makes me laugh. Man U have the largest stadium in the country, earning something like 3m just from the gate receipts per game, and have bonus money from reaching the latter stages of the Champions League constantly over the past two decades. Even then, they are in horrendous debt which is well known to be endangering their future. As for Chelsea, they have a loan from a billionaire owner which does not need to be repayed, and even then, since the initial stage when was the last time they payed 20m or above for a player?
Kyle Naughton was one of two young defenders we bought as a package. He isn't looking too hot, the other looks very promising. You don't think Utd and Chelsea bring in young players who they know that they'll probably make money on even if they aren't huge successes at the club? Daniel Sturridge went to Chelsea on a free, will probably never be a first team, but will definitely fetch a few million if he leaves. Utd have brought in Tosic for a fair penny, and moved him on at a loss because he didn't make it at all, while Bebe looks like going the same way. Both were young players who were never going to impact the first team any time soon. They did similar with Nani and only now, a few seasons later, is he established as a first teamer.
As for your gripe that we have not even bought one world class player despite making the Champions League (whatever world class actually means), I guess that depends on how highly you rate Van Der Vaart. I rate him extremely highly personally, and I'm sure most Spurs fans do.
As for what he did to MJ, the way it came out (halftime during that Getafe match, still the most surreal experience I've had at a match) that he'd been dismissed was awful, but is that down to DL or some idiot in the press department who cocked up the timing of the release? I don't see how he was otherwise treated badly. He'd had many good players provided for him, at a high cost, during his time with us. I don't care if you think Jol, Comolli, Levy or the tea lady bought the players, the fact of the matter is that it is incredibly naive to think that the purchase of any one player was ever done without Jol's approval. In Jols 19 games at Spurs, before being sacked, he could have happily fielder this team made up of players bought only while he'd been our manager: Cerny, free, Chimbonda, 6m, Dawson, 4m, Kaboul, 6m, Ekotto, 2.5m, Jenas, 8m, Zokora, 8m, Malbranque, 2.5m, Bale, 10m, Bent, 16m, Berbatov, 11m. That's not accounting for some of the (ranging from good to excellent) cheaper players signed under Jol like Lennon, Tainio, Mido, Huddlestone and YP.Lee. Jol was ultimately no longer doing it and we were in danger of going down, and Levy had already put his neck on the line with the rest of the board by sticking by Jol after an equally poor start when everyone was then calling for MJ's head. I loved the big guy, but looking at it dispassionately, he ran out of lives.
As for selling Berba and replacing him with Pav, ill thought out though that might seem, can you tell me which striker worth the money we got for Berbatov would have come to us without us being in the Champions League, unless we threw City style money at them? Unless you want us to through over 100k a week at a player when we're merely in the UEFA Cup, it just isn't going to happen.
We did reinvest in a player who had forged a pretty good career of goalscoring goals and had just heavily impressed over the course of an international tournament qualifying campaign, and then the tournament itself. It turned out to be a poor signing, but at the time the guy looked like he had the credentials we need, and we were never going to be able to get someone of the ilk of Berbatov unless we got as lucky as we did with the big sulk himself. We signed Berbatov as a guy who most people knew as a good goalscorer from the Bundesliga, nobody predicted he'd turn out to be one of Europes best players, at least nobody on this site, and I doubt that's something I'd miss as, if you can't tell by most post tally, I'm on this site quite a fucking lot. I don't think we banked any profit though. Berbatov and Keane combined brought in 50m roughly. That summer we bought Bentley, Modric, Pav, Gomes, Giovani and Corluka for around 67m, with Hutton and Woodgate having come in the previous January for another 16m, and Palacios, Keane, and Defoe to come next January for another 38m. Levy pocketed nothing, he threw a hell of a lot of money, far more than he'd have wanted I imagine, at trying to take us to the next level.
Lastly, why do I love Levy? I don't really love him, it's difficult to love a chairman. I do, however, think he is amongst the best, if not the best, chairmen in the league. I do believe that in his ten seasons (something I am writing a book about believe it or not) as our chairman, he has taken us from being a mediocre, mid table side to a side who can genuinely compete with the established heirachy. I do believe that he has learnt from the mistakes he has made (and there have been some). I feel that he has managed this without putting our financial stability at risk at any point. I believe that he has repaired our clubs very poor, Sugar inflicted, relations with the media and with the local borough, hence how close we are to finally getting approval for our new stadium. I believe, on top of all this, that he has always acted as somebody who genuinely loves the club and understands every single fan, because he is one himself, and that on occasion he might have made mistakes as a result of this (fancy new manager in Ramos, persisting with the legend Hoddle when it became obvious that he'd lost the dressing room, being a bit too quick to try and sign shiny expensive players despite a previously good policy of getting quality cheaply (Robainson, Huddlestone, Lennon) ).
This is all why I have a lot of time for Levy, because I believe that not only has he been very good for our club, and will continue to be, in terms of making progress, but because, at heart, beneath the Cambridge 1st in Economics and the fabulously wealthy uncle, he is one of us. Has he made mistakes? Of course. Are the outweighted by his successes? Definitely. We take the occasional step back (11th and 8th after 2 successive 5ths) but we bounce back and surpass even the previous (4th last season). Even if this season ends up not reaching expectations, I will go into next season fully expecting to bounce back, because I know that our chairman, who has so far given me reason to believe in him, will put in every effort to make it happen.
Thats got nothing to do with tactics, that's training, aside from your suggestion of playing lennon on the left.. which then fucks up Bale and leads to endless cutting inside from lennon due to his utter lack of a left foot.
I'd also question whether Pav is unfit or just a bit lazy
kkemal
kk
- Jun 15, 2008
- 187
- 0
- Thread starter
- #93
So you think a manager like MJ who gave us at the time our best league finish deserved to have his job offered to some TWAT from spain who couldnt speak a word of English? Why do you stick up for DL so much?
Yes he allowed HR to buy Defoe (BACK) yes he bought Keane (BACK) Yes he Bought (Kaboul) Back..........it was that or a relegation dog fight!!! DL was shitting it mate for the simple fact that he rocked the boat with MJ!
VDV is special!!! but when your manager tells you that he needs a striker and considering he has got us into the CL then thats when you let keano and PAV leave for the monies offered and you cut ur loses, then u bring in what ur manager reckons will make us title contenders!!!!!
DID we NEED VDV or did we need Fabiano???? U tell me?
Come on mate it's clear you know ur football and I know ur spurs but are you telling me Keano, Defoe, Crouch and Pav are good enough to compete in The CL and the EPL week in week out???
brett.spurs
Banned
- May 22, 2007
- 7,388
- 2
Stick him upfront.
C-oops
Well-Known Member
- Jul 27, 2008
- 4,038
- 3,376
Sorry. Gave up reading this thread after 4 pages. The OP is clearly deluded. I think the main reason we are losing or drawing at the moment is simply lack of movement and pace up front. No one is making runs behind the defence. Noone is causing defences to worry about our pace , so we are getting squashed as they push up = less room to play our type of football. Also rarely are we getting anyone from midfield making runs from deep( which can counter a high line). On Sat we lost our most potent attacking threat ( Bale ) to a positional change that couldnt be avoided and who was kept busy by most notably Dyer in the 1st half. With Defoe out we look toothless upfront and need to rectify this in Jan, assuming its not too late. A strong, pacy striker that can play up front on his own was our main priority in the summer and still remains so. I'm not too worried about anything else. Least of all Harry and especially our defence which is only creaking due to the huge injury list.
RickyVilla
Well-Known Member
- May 16, 2004
- 18,500
- 19,958
Good post BBLG
BringBack_leGin
Well-Known Member
- Jul 28, 2004
- 27,719
- 54,929
I believe we need both personally. Modric, I love, but he can't be relied on to be the only genuine creativity in the side, and he isn't as advanced a player as VDV either. VDV gives us the Lampard/ Fabregas/ Gerrard option that we've lacked since Gazza left, a midfielder who is by nature going to offer a goal threat, either by assist or scoring himself, every time he plays, because he works the final third so well. Modric, wonderful player though he is, is far more of a patroller, starting moves from our own half and orchestrating them all the way to the other end of the pitch. He'll assist his fair share, he won't score that many, but he'll be the indirect link to so many goals we score. VDV is the Hoddle to Modric's Ardiles, so yes, I think it was necessary.
I do agree with you that the striker was more necessary. Being a La Liga obsessive, I've never actually thought Fabiano was quite the player he's hyped to be, and certainly not worth a £20m+ bid and £100k+ in wages each week. A very good striker, yes, but to my mind I never wanted him for more than half that price, not when you consider that we signed a far better player in Berba for £11m. Now Huntelaar, that's more of a trick that I feel we missed.
Agreed, I do not believe our strikers are of the quality required, but I also think that a striker of that quality was not relatively, and reasonably available. It's not like we received an email from Barcelona saying 'Come get Ibrahimovic'. I also think that Fabiano was in part using us to get a new contract, but that is based purely on the circumstantial evidence available I admit.
What I will say is that this striker quartet was good enough to get fourth last season, so, even if a bit reluctantly, I have no choice but to trust them at least until January. I also believe that when our midfield is in full swing, and we are regularly able to field an on form quintet of:
Lennon Huddlestone Modric Bale
VDV
VDV
that we could put any of our strikers up front alone and they'd struggle not to score with the service they'd receive.
DEFchenkOE
Well-Known Member
- Feb 13, 2006
- 10,527
- 8,052
It's true fabiano isn't worth £20m and 100k a week imo but at the same time we do desperately need a striker. If however we are going to play as you suggested more often than not 4-4-1-1 with VdV behind Defoe probably then we need to stick with this. If we could get Fab then he would rotate for starting with Defoe.
I mentioned in another thread but we need to stick to one system and bring players in and out around this. VdV will not be there all the time so play Kranjcar if he isn't, we need like for like swaps as much as possible imo. I don't like that when VdV isn't there we change system, think this just imbalances the team in a negative way. If Harry wants to play 4-4-2 then he needs to get vdv to fit in that, whether it's from the right as he did against Wolves or in the central midfield alongside a Palacios/Sandro. Against Arsenal in the cc we should have played the 4-4-1-1 but with different personnel:
Bentley Palacios Sandro Lennon
Giovani
Pavlyuchenko
Or
Bentley Livermore Sandro Giovani
Krancjar
Pav
Giovani
Pavlyuchenko
Or
Bentley Livermore Sandro Giovani
Krancjar
Pav
Any kind of combination but at least try to keep the same structure as the first team.
