Is there a way past the Bielsa/Pochettino wall?

[dynamoSpurs]

Out of curiosity, what device or test could one use or perform to measure an individual's fatigue/tiredness?

And what does it mean to be "tired" in the context of athletes?

 

[panoma]

I really don't see what is so wierd or unexpected about our last few games?

Away to an inform West Ham, home to Arsenal and away to Dortmund. Getting a couple losses and a draw is about "expected". Sure on a great day we would have gotten a point away to West Ham and beat Arsenal, but im not gonna blame the recent results on tiredness, more just randomness and good opposition.

 

[we_all_loved_freund]

People will point to games such as Swansea and even Watford and say we were good and we just didn't take our chances as evidence that our fitness levels have been fine. However, to me, the writing has been on the wall for a few weeks with regards our fitness.

The fact that we are not finishing chances is, in my opinion, the biggest indicator of our tiredness. Stats regarding distance covered do not help in terms of whether we are trying as it is the intensity of those runs that is more telling. Ambling up to somebody to close them down is not the same as the pressing we were doing early in the season.

Our lack of clinicalness has to be as a result of our tiredness; we simply don't have the concentration to be able to do the most difficult job on the pitch. If you look at Harry's two attempts against West Ham really shows this, in my opinion.

 

[Qualsonic]

Out of curiosity, what device or test could one use or perform to measure an individual's fatigue/tiredness?

A bed and counting sheep

 

[Bobbins]

Yes the OP is a bit silly in the way he's put the point over, but the point does exist and is worthy of debate. We've been expecting it all season after all. I don't like the "we won six in a row so this can never be discussed" type of responses.

It's a football forum for discussing Spurs - not discussing something which has been a recurring feature in every Team Poch has ever managed, and which might have a significant effect on the end of our season, seems stupid to me.

 

[mark87]

Sell your soul, Lemon.

 

[Lemon]

People will point to games such as Swansea and even Watford and say we were good and we just didn't take our chances as evidence that our fitness levels have been fine. However, to me, the writing has been on the wall for a few weeks with regards our fitness.

The fact that we are not finishing chances is, in my opinion, the biggest indicator of our tiredness. Stats regarding distance covered do not help in terms of whether we are trying as it is the intensity of those runs that is more telling. Ambling up to somebody to close them down is not the same as the pressing we were doing early in the season.

Our lack of clinicalness has to be as a result of our tiredness; we simply don't have the concentration to be able to do the most difficult job on the pitch. If you look at Harry's two attempts against West Ham really shows this, in my opinion.

Generic reply below we_all_loved_freund, to your thoughts but not at you.

Why might concentration be low? Is it that if we do not supply the body sufficient oxygen and minerals (and rest) then metabolic/catabolic waste may be left in tissue, without sufficient recovery periods (plus non-optimal diet) your lymphatic system may become too acidic as your kindneys/liver are not able to cycle the acids at a rate the body needs?

Almost everybody in here must have experience with this, knows the feelings, tired before you really start, because your body is already carrying those acids, joint pains usually uric acid for example..

Your body will now fight to put you in "rest and repair" (parasympathetic autonomic nervous system state) where oxygen is directed at the repair/digest side at the back of the body (Kane falling over and looking like he's carrying way to much residual waste/acids, his nervous system is pulling him around IMO)

Of course there are simplistic utterings, but maybe there is something quite simple in our designs, that most of the very, very clever Doctors can't see, as they are never taught to look at biological ionisation and surely if formulas existed to test they would already know them....

 

[Jody]

Sharapova's got a job lot of tablets going if anyone has her number.

Better than lots of tubs of giblets I suppose.

 

[Lemon]

Sell your soul, Lemon.

Never would. But spread my word, for money, well that I may!

 

[EQP]

Leciester rest there players 2 days a week (unless there a cup game) versus our one day a week.

 

[deluded-yid]

Generic reply below we_all_loved_freund, to your thoughts but not at you.

Why might concentration be low? Is it that if we do not supply the body sufficient oxygen and minerals (and rest) then metabolic/catabolic waste may be left in tissue, without sufficient recovery periods (plus non-optimal diet) your lymphatic system may become too acidic as your kindneys/liver are not able to cycle the acids at a rate the body needs?

Almost everybody in here must have experience with this, knows the feelings, tired before you really start, because your body is already carrying those acids, joint pains usually uric acid for example..

Your body will now fight to put you in "rest and repair" (parasympathetic autonomic nervous system state) where oxygen is directed at the repair/digest side at the back of the body (Kane falling over and looking like he's carrying way to much residual waste/acids, his nervous system is pulling him around IMO)

Of course there are simplistic utterings, but maybe there is something quite simple in our designs, that most of the very, very clever Doctors can't see, as they are never taught to look at biological ionisation and surely if formulas existed to test they would already know them....

Show off

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

People will point to games such as Swansea and even Watford and say we were good and we just didn't take our chances as evidence that our fitness levels have been fine. However, to me, the writing has been on the wall for a few weeks with regards our fitness.

The fact that we are not finishing chances is, in my opinion, the biggest indicator of our tiredness. Stats regarding distance covered do not help in terms of whether we are trying as it is the intensity of those runs that is more telling. Ambling up to somebody to close them down is not the same as the pressing we were doing early in the season.

Our lack of clinicalness has to be as a result of our tiredness; we simply don't have the concentration to be able to do the most difficult job on the pitch. If you look at Harry's two attempts against West Ham really shows this, in my opinion.

Yes the OP is a bit silly in the way he's put the point over, but the point does exist and is worthy of debate. We've been expecting it all season after all. I don't like the "we won six in a row so this can never be discussed" type of responses.

It's a football forum for discussing Spurs - not discussing something which has been a recurring feature in every Team Poch has ever managed, and which might have a significant effect on the end of our season, seems stupid to me.

Generic reply below we_all_loved_freund, to your thoughts but not at you.

Why might concentration be low? Is it that if we do not supply the body sufficient oxygen and minerals (and rest) then metabolic/catabolic waste may be left in tissue, without sufficient recovery periods (plus non-optimal diet) your lymphatic system may become too acidic as your kindneys/liver are not able to cycle the acids at a rate the body needs?

Almost everybody in here must have experience with this, knows the feelings, tired before you really start, because your body is already carrying those acids, joint pains usually uric acid for example..

Your body will now fight to put you in "rest and repair" (parasympathetic autonomic nervous system state) where oxygen is directed at the repair/digest side at the back of the body (Kane falling over and looking like he's carrying way to much residual waste/acids, his nervous system is pulling him around IMO)

Of course there are simplistic utterings, but maybe there is something quite simple in our designs, that most of the very, very clever Doctors can't see, as they are never taught to look at biological ionisation and surely if formulas existed to test they would already know them....

Some really good points being made.

 

[Lemon]

Show off

My wife says I'm just the same with consultants/everyone. F*ck 'em, truth dodging pill pushers (joking, kind of...).

 

[EQP]

Out of curiosity, what device or test could one use or perform to measure an individual's fatigue/tiredness?

And what does it mean to be "tired" in the context of athletes?

Couple tools used to determine fatigue are HRV ( heart rate variability) ,lactate test (among a battery of blood work), surveys that players fill out when they get to the training center and after each session, game footage/high quality minutes played among others.

 

[NeverRed]

I like cake

 

[Lemon]

I like cake

You're the devil on their left shoulder, whispering in their ear.

That's why the club need to be the angel in the right ear saying 'we pay you £60K put that cake the f*ck down'!

 

[philip]

Yes, rotate and use the second string players earlier on during the season so the first teamers don't play as many minutes and the squad players are first team ready.

 

[philip]

our last 3 matches have been played at a much higher tempo 2 local derbies and a team that moved the ball so well that made us have to work very hard, 7 of last nights starting players most probably won't start Sunday, and even if they did they should beat Villa, but they definitely won't work us anywhere near as hard as our last 3 matches.

the one thing we don't want is Dier picking up that extra yellow in the next 2 games, Bournemouth will work us hard, but Liverpool definitely will. just wished most of the squad wasn't away with internationals in a few weeks

Would not risk Dier against Villa cos of that

 

[ethanedwards]

Yes the OP is a bit silly in the way he's put the point over, but the point does exist and is worthy of debate. We've been expecting it all season after all. I don't like the "we won six in a row so this can never be discussed" type of responses.

It's a football forum for discussing Spurs - not discussing something which has been a recurring feature in every Team Poch has ever managed, and which might have a significant effect on the end of our season, seems stupid to me.

Has Bielsa or any of his disciples been successful with these tactics ? ie won a trophy.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

People are saying we've been looking tired for a while now. However, it's only a few weeks since we showed tremendous energy levels against Man City, and we've beaten Fiorentina 3-0 since then.

Alli and Dembele have both missed games recently, and they provide a lot of our legs and thrust in midfield. Against Arsenal, I don't think it was a coincidence that we went from pushing for a 3rd goal to backs against the wall the moment Dembele went off for Mason.