It's all quite simple really

[nicdic]

I agree that finishing is a huge problem, but are we creating the right sort of chances for the players? A ball in the air for JD to try and head in will go down as a chance, but he's less likely to score that than a ball drilled along the floor for him to run onto.

Sorry, by chances I mean shots, on or off target or blocked.

 

[steventhfc]

We'd be in a relegation dog fight without VDV. Do you want me to pull up the stats?

 

[kaz Hirai]

We'd be in a relegation dog fight without VDV. Do you want me to pull up the stats?

no! its all his fault, all 4 of our strikers were scoring for fun before he turned up, the useless shite

 

[steventhfc]

no! its all his fault, all 4 of our strikers were scoring for fun before he turned up, the useless shite

:rofl:

 

[ILS]

We'd be in a relegation dog fight without VDV. Do you want me to pull up the stats?

We played 3 league games before he turned up won 1 drew 1 and Lost 1 so by that you know for a fact we would have been in a dog fight?

You really are impressive!

 

[guiltyparty]

Two points:

1. No one can say we'd be relegation fodder without VDV because we'd have played a different formation - the 442 we played last year when getting Top 4 - so you have no idea how that would have panned out. Was breaking up a winning strike partnership that had got us our best finish ever really a good idea? Whatever the reasoning, you certainly can't just take his goals and assists out of the equation without taking into account what playing this different formation has done to our potency.

2. Likewise, I hate all this "our strikers have only scored 16 goals between them". We've only played one at a time for most of the season, so you HAVE to include VDV in that. The guy's a forward - until recently when Redknapp changed us back to 442, he's taken the role of one of the front two, so his goals should be included as such. It's not like he's bagged those goals from centre-mid. He's a Le Tissier/Sheringham

People saying buying VDV was a mistake are overstating it, but I do think the above points keep getting missed

 

[ILS]

no! its all his fault, all 4 of our strikers were scoring for fun before he turned up, the useless shite

Yeah and since he has been in the side we have also scored for fun...er no!

 

[kaz Hirai]

Yeah and since he has been in the side we have also scored for fun...er no!

so maybe the problem is the strikers then perhaps?

 

[ethanedwards]

I'm not saying we have the best strikers. I'd take RVP, Drogba, Suarez or Rooney in a heartbeat, but for Defoe to go from 18 league goals last season to just 4 this year suggests we aren't playing to his strengths.

Defoe went missing after Christmas las year, long before VDV arrived.

 

[ILS]

so maybe the problem is the strikers then perhaps?

Kaz, I agree the strikers are a problem but what doesn't help is when you are playing one of them upfront with VDV and he spends most of the time fifty yards away from him.

Why is he picking the ball up off Dawson? Which is something Sandro and Modric can do.

Why are his free kicks so appalling yet manages to get another go?

Why has he stopped doing what he did when he first came over here?

 

[kaz Hirai]

Defoe went missing after Christmas las year, long before VDV arrived.

defoe scored 4 league goals not including pens from from christmas till may last season

take away the mauling of beating hull 5-1 and wigan 9-1 and the team of last season minus VDV scored 53 goals in 36 games.

this current team with VDV has scored 51 goals in 36 games

so its not like VDV has just ruined this mythical free scoring side some people seem to remember, apart from defoe's purple patch in September to November 2009 its been pretty much the same story, we couldnt buy a goal from december unward

I suppose that 9-1 against wigan sticks in some peoples mind, and makes them think we tore every team to bits last year and cruised to 4th

 

[kaz Hirai]

Kaz, I agree the strikers are a problem but what doesn't help is when you are playing one of them upfront with VDV and he spends most of the time fifty yards away from him.

Why is he picking the ball up off Dawson? Which is something Sandro and Modric can do.

Why are his free kicks so appalling yet manages to get another go?

Why has he stopped doing what he did when he first came over here?

he's an attacking midfielder, he wants to be on the ball and get moves started, the the coach needs to tweak the formation or personnel so that if VDV drops in deep someone else takes up the slack and pushes forward, modric or bale or lennon need to cut in.
a decent striker who actually has a bit of movement about them would help so much is ridiculous.

who's better at freekicks in our side, they are all shit, kaboul's toe pokes, modric corners arent much better, jenas? wouldnt expect anything much from huddlestones delivery from set pieces, bale maybe but he's had plenty of free kicks this season and done nothing apart from hit the bar with one, so i wouldnt single out VDV when the whole team isnt any good at set piece plays

I agree his form hasn't been as strong, but maybe he's just tired after a long season, bale hasnt been up to his standard either, nor has half the players, but i wouldnt single them out and say they're the problem

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I don't think it's been the tactics, the man-managemnent or any factors such as those that's been our problem this season.

Even if tactics were not absolutely perfect, I just don't believe it would be possible to so frequently carve teams apart and rack up 20+ shots in so many games if the tactics weren't pretty good. Think back to Man City at the beginning of the season. Right from the start, the problem has been with our strikers. People slagged the team off against Chelsea, and perhaps it was just understandable knee-jerk reactions, but for Chelsea to have to rely on those two goals to save their bacon, well they would have to have been shit too.

As for man-management, I think that given the large squad and the poor results recently, there would have been every chance that if the man-management wasn't good, then heads would have dropped and petty bickering broken out a long time ago, but that hasn't happened.

If there is one saving grace, it is that the quality of much of the team's work this season has been that we don't even need a world class strikeforce to make the difference, just better than average forwards. No tinkering, no tweaking, no overhauls.

The Man City game told me that this team has got desire and a great work ethic, allied to some phenomenal quality in most areas of the pitch.

As for the manager, I don't understand why he is constantly criticised. He refuses to slag referees and linos off, he doesn't get involved in the nonsense that other managers do, and he maintains his dignity. Ultimately, though, it's a mix of his and Levy's judgement that has meant we don't have the strikers to match the rest of the team, and they are culpable.

I want them to carry on though - get out there and get the strikers we need. Even though many of us didn't have great faith in our strikers at the start of the season, I doubt whether any of us would have thought that all 3 of them would have been this dire. Maybe Harry made the same mistake.

With the right strikers, this team can challenge for the PL next year. That much is obvious, you only have to look at where and how points were dropped throughout the season, starting with the opening game. Not having CL football is not a blessing, but we'll have to make the most of it. Cut our coat accordingly and mount an all out asault on the PL.

We've underperformed this season, no doubt about it, but it's not as though the players have not been up for it or the season has been littered with awful performances, far from it. Most of the negativity is borne of simple frustration rather than some on the button anaylis of our ills.

I'm looking forward to the summer and next season.

The Man City game told me that we haven't been playing the right combination of players most of the season, that we haven't worked hard enough most of the season and that our organisation and set piece preparation is poor.

And that we need new strikers.

 

[nailsy]

defoe scored 4 league goals not including pens from from christmas till may last season

take away the mauling of beating hull 5-1 and wigan 9-1 and the team of last season minus VDV scored 53 goals in 36 games.

this current team with VDV has scored 51 goals in 36 games

so its not like VDV has just ruined this mythical free scoring side some people seem to remember, apart from defoe's purple patch in September to November 2009 its been pretty much the same story, we couldnt buy a goal from december unward

I suppose that 9-1 against wigan sticks in some peoples mind, and makes them think we tore every team to bits last year and cruised to 4th

But you can't just take out 14 goals because it makes the stats look similar. Last season we were capable of scoring 4 or 5 in a game, this season we don't know where the next goal will come from.

 

[kaz Hirai]

But you can't just take out 14 goals because it makes the stats look similar. Last season we were capable of scoring 4 or 5 in a game, this season we don't know where the next goal will come from.

no what it highlights is that defoe had a hot streak for 2 months and then normal service was resumed.
the point is simple, those strikers have never been any good at a top level, a 2 games dont change that. after the wigan game the goals dried up badly.

this is what people arent getting, its not just this season, it was most of last season too, and the season before that, since berbatov and keane parted ways

defoe, pav and crouch are shit to average premier league strikers, and even if they had kaka behind him they would struggle

 

[mattstev2000]

no what it highlights is that defoe had a hot streak for 2 months and then normal service was resumed.
the point is simple, those strikers have never been any good at a top level, a 2 games dont change that. after the wigan game the goals dried up badly.

this is what people arent getting, its not just this season, it was most of last season too, and the season before that, since berbatov and keane parted ways

defoe, pav and crouch are shit to average premier league strikers, and even if they had kaka behind him they would struggle

Well said... :up:

 

[YiddoJames]

This season we have created the 3rd most goal scoring chances, whilst having the 16th best shots-to-goal conversion percentages in the league.*

That to me indicates that there is a problem with our finishing. That our three strikers have 16 goals between them isn't good enough.

* Stats correct as of the EPL weekend beginning 07/05/2011

Nice stat finding. Interesting!

 

[ItsBoris]

I disagree, tactics come into play in the final third, this stuff needs to be practiced in training and imo you don't break teams down without tactics. Sort of the same thing as our uselessness at set pieces - they aren't practiced in training so no surprises when we are no good at them in games.

I always believed that within a reasonable gulf in class, any team can beat any other team simply by employing the correct strategy and tactics. Of course a pub team isn't going to beat Barcelona no matter what, but having a better strategy that your opponent can make up for a difference in skill.

 

[super swine]

I find this so hard to believe. Not saying that you're lying obviously but I rarely see our players clean through on goal and missing the target or the keeper saving it.

In those stats do you know what is classed as a chance? Modric's shot yesterday I would say is a chance. But most of our goals seem to come from individual brilliance, I rarely see us creating 3-4 good chances per game.

Did you watch Blackpool away? the sheer amount of chances defoe and pav managed to fcuk up alone would have catapulted our average way up the charts. Not to mention the Man City, Bolton, West Ham and wolves home games

 

[Ironskullll]

Did you watch Blackpool away? the sheer amount of chances defoe and pav managed to fcuk up alone would have catapulted our average way up the charts. Not to mention the Man City, Bolton, West Ham and wolves home games

Well said. It's really very simple.