Jermain Defoe (to Portsmouth)

[Real_madyidd]

Stick your stats up your ass.

It's obvious to any Tom, Dick or Harry that Defoe is a better striker than Bent. We'll regret losing him and being left with old lead boots.

Tom and Harry disagree.

 

[ChRiStOpHe]

I'd take it.

Yeah, me too, although when I read it on Sky Sports, they were suggesting Boro were prepared to give us either of the lefties for JD, which isn't such a fun deal in my book.

 

[Legend10]

I'd take it.

In the current contractual position so would I.

But why would we want 2 players for the same position in the same deal and why would Boro offer 2 players for the same position leaving them without a left sided option?

In Defoes current contract position I would take a straight swap for Downing.

However I can't see any chance that Defoe would agree to join the smoggies, surely that in itself is laughable?

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

Daily shit got new really interesting rumour :lol:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...article_id=507002&in_page_id=1779&ito=newsnow

Did nobody see that earlier in this thread about 3 hours before?!

 

[Dezzydez]

I'm sorry if I've covered atuff that has already been said. From what we can gather from the news 'services' JD wants to stay, but won't sign until he gets a guarantee that Ramos will give him more first team football.

This for me suggests a potentially dangerous situation. At the moment, the ball is very much in JD's court. He can stay, all the while not signing a new contract, and reject any club that bids for him until his contract runs out. A professional footballer wouldn't do that to himself would he? If he finds that he's not being played, will he decide to move or will he hold out until he can move on a free?

Which is why I am thinking Defoe is trying to dick Spurs. He is holding the club to ransom by saying "play me or I won't sign"...simultaneously giving little snippets that make him out to be the good guy.."i wanna stay" etc etc. If he wants to stay then sign ffs, Spurs obviously want him to and the games will come...

IMO mans just stalling and hoping Arse/Chelsea will sign him on the cheap and give him a fat wage, well he can feck off to QPR then because they are going to be the richest club according to the papers.

I don't think he will join Aston Villa, just not glamourous enough....oh when will this Defoe saga end?!!......:bang:

 

[The Apprentice]

Tom and Harry disagree.

So you agree then?

Good.

 

[joey55]

Yeah, cheeky ****.


Drifting back to the point though. Despite Joey's attempt to bullshit Defoe's GPM last season about 100 min PG worse than it actually was - what was clear was that his GPM did in fact piss Bent's - which is what I was saying in the summer when everyone was saying how much better Bent would be than Defoe.

The reason it id more relevant with these two is that they are both pure strikers. They are not there to hold the ball up for a partner etc. The both are only interested in scoring themselves. And it is more relevant than say goals per chance because it doesn't matter if you are making more chances for yourself and missing a high percentage if the outcome is still more goals per minute as games are limited by minutes not chances.

I could understand if we'd gone and brought in a striker that would have added something completely different, or one that would have made sense in relation to our other - pretty talented - strikers, but Bent had only ever been effective as a lone striker, he isn't particularly intelligent or technically great, and was never going to give us much more than we had or improve our style of play. We could have had Anelka for cheaper who's twice the player.

When did I attempt to bullshit? In every post I made, i made it clear I'd subtracted penalties. I didn't attempt to bullshit, you simply didn't read what had been posted. Also Defoe didn't even win a single of the pens he scored last season. Mendes brought down Zokora (well not quite), Bowyer brought down Lennon and Tugay brought down Ghaly. Defoe just stepped up to score the pens. This tells us nothing about their ability as pure strikers. But also you seem to be ignoring the fact Bent also scored 3 penalties, which i subtracted from his tally aswell. Why on earth would you judge a strikers ability based on penalties. By doing that Robbie Keane had the same goals per minute as Drogba last season. Simply becase Drogba didn't take penalites and Keane did. Legend10 made the point the otherday that you wouldn't pay money for a striker that just scored penlties. You'd expect all players to score pens if they were taking them. This just another case of B-C desperately trying to save face. Personally I like all our stirkers, but according your system, Bent is clearly prefferable to Defoe.

 

[The Apprentice]

Personally I like all our stirkers, but according your system, Bent is clearly prefferable to Defoe.

Try a system called Eyesight. It's brilliant.

 

[Frozen_Waffles]

Here are the problems that I see with Defoe

1 : Not a team player
2: Needs a someone next to him (usually a tall creative striker)
3: Has shown no sign of improvement during his time at Spurs
4: He cannot pass or see a pass
5: He cannot stay onside (big problem for a striker)

If we get 10 million plus - sell him! If he signs a new contract then great he will only be considered for the first team when Robbie Keane is not playing. I dont mind having a player of Defoes caliber on the bench.

 

[SpurSince57]

Are we worrying about the PLC or the football club where Defoe is concerned?

We paid, what, £7m for him? Plus whatever we think he's on? £25k a week, say? If his scoring form improves, even if he's largely rebranding himself as the new OGS, we won't have had a bad return on that outlay.

Unless you believe we aren't going to replace him, a large chunk of the £10m max we're going to get for him is likely to go on a replacement, who might turn out not to be anywhere near as good. After all, unless you strike lucky, as Blackburn appear to have done with Santa Cruz, what does £6m get you these days? Diomansy Kamara?

If he wants to stay and wants to play but won't sign a contract extension, then let the contract run down and take the loss in 18 months' time.

And why, with our Sporting Director being allegedly in charge of hiring and firing, is it Ramos who gets the job of telling JD he's free to go? Shouldn't that be Comolli's remit under our structure? You really do have to wonder what the fuck is going on.

Surely it can't be that the Dear Leader only wants to have the credit for the things that go right, can it? Daniel 'Not me, guv' Levy reprising his Pontius Pilate act for the umpteenth time this season?

 

[joey55]

Are we worrying about the PLC or the football club where Defoe is concerned?

We paid, what, £7m for him? Plus whatever we think he's on? £25k a week, say? If his scoring form improves, even if he's largely rebranding himself as the new OGS, we won't have had a bad return on that outlay.

Unless you believe we aren't going to replace him, a large chunk of the £10m max we're going to get for him is likely to go on a replacement, who might turn out not to be anywhere near as good. After all, unless you strike lucky, as Blackburn appear to have done with Santa Cruz, what does £6m get you these days? Diomansy Kamara?

If he wants to stay and wants to play but won't sign a contract extension, then let the contract run down and take the loss in 18 months' time.

And why, with our Sporting Director being allegedly in charge of hiring and firing, is it Ramos who gets the job of telling JD he's free to go? Shouldn't that be Comolli's remit under our structure? You really do have to wonder what the fuck is going on.

Surely it can't be that the Dear Leader only wants to have the credit for the things that go right, can it? Daniel 'Not me, guv' Levy reprising his Pontius Pilate act for the umpteenth time this season?

Mark Hughes has a habbit of striking lucky, bit like Monchi at Seville. Samba, Nelson, Bentley, McCarthy, Warnock and Santa Cruz all cost very small amounts. I wouldn't mind a Sporting Director who has a similar habbit. When you look at Balckburn's team and the amount of games their best players played last season, they should have done better than 52 points. So maybe Hughes isn't the coach many people make him out to be, but he clearly has an eye for a player and would make a great Sporting Director if the role was more common within the British game. Conversely, if you look at David O'Leary's record at Leeds and Aston Villa, he made dramatic improvements when he initially took over when working with the previous managers players, but the more time he had to spend money and bring in his own players, things started to go down hill.

 

[archiewasking]

So you rate a striker according to his ability to score penalties? You'd pay money for a striker who scored 15 goals a season all from the penalty spot?[/quote]

Everton did with Andy Johnson. :duh:

 

[theShiznit]

So you rate a striker according to his ability to score penalties? You'd pay money for a striker who scored 15 goals a season all from the penalty spot?[/quote]

Everton did with Andy Johnson. :duh:

the difference is Andy Johnson made all his own goals :wink:

 

[Michey]

Eek

:rofl:

What an idiot :rofl:

 

[joey55]

So you rate a striker according to his ability to score penalties? You'd pay money for a striker who scored 15 goals a season all from the penalty spot?[/quote]

Everton did with Andy Johnson. :duh:

But Johnson scored 10 goals from open play for Palace and 11 penalties. So from that point of view it should have been a good indicator to Everton that he'd score a lot less goals if they had a lot less penalites. And shockingly he did - 10 goals from open play for Everton, the same as at Palace. If ever there is reason to ignore goals scored from pens, the case of Andy Johnson is it.

 

[Legend10]

Ray Stewart would have been the worlds most expensive player!

 

[Bus-Conductor]

When did I attempt to bullshit? In every post I made, i made it clear I'd subtracted penalties. I didn't attempt to bullshit, you simply didn't read what had been posted. Also Defoe didn't even win a single of the pens he scored last season. Mendes brought down Zokora (well not quite), Bowyer brought down Lennon and Tugay brought down Ghaly. Defoe just stepped up to score the pens. This tells us nothing about their ability as pure strikers. But also you seem to be ignoring the fact Bent also scored 3 penalties, which i subtracted from his tally aswell. Why on earth would you judge a strikers ability based on penalties. By doing that Robbie Keane had the same goals per minute as Drogba last season. Simply becase Drogba didn't take penalites and Keane did. Legend10 made the point the otherday that you wouldn't pay money for a striker that just scored penlties. You'd expect all players to score pens if they were taking them. This just another case of B-C desperately trying to save face. Personally I like all our stirkers, but according your system, Bent is clearly prefferable to Defoe.

Joey, no-one would buy a striker just to take penalties. But penalties are goals. You can miss them as we have seen and they are certainly harder than the sort of tap ins that Keane has missed recently (x3). Your (edited) post deliberately didn't include penalties because if it had Defoe had a better GPM. After all if you were really going to be thatpedantic you'd have to chalk off the minutes it took to take thise penalties as they are included in the time on pitch. Defoes penalties could have taken twice as long. Against the supposed ease of a penalty is the actual bollocks it takes to step up and take responsibility, funny how many don't want it isn't it ? And if they were that easy we'd almost certainly be 5 points better off now.

It was just another blatent manapulation of stats to try and prove your point.

By your system it's a Bent shirt for you. By mine you end up buying the Defoe Duvet and matching pillow case.

 

[Real_madyidd]

So you agree then?

Good.

Yes, with Tom and Harry.

Seems being a striker is about scoring goals, and Defoe has never been prolific. Most over rated footballer at the club.

 

[joey55]

Joey, no-one would buy a striker just to take penalties. But penalties are goals. You can miss them as we have seen and they are certainly harder than the sort of tap ins that Keane has missed recently (x3). Your (edited) post deliberately didn't include penalties because if it had Defoe had a better GPM. After all if you were really going to be thatpedantic you'd have to chalk off the minutes it took to take thise penalties as they are included in the time on pitch. Defoes penalties could have taken twice as long. Against the supposed ease of a penalty is the actual bollocks it takes to step up and take responsibility, funny how many don't want it isn't it ? And if they were that easy we'd almost certainly be 5 points better off now.

It was just another blatent manapulation of stats to try and prove your point.

By your system it's a Bent shirt for you. By mine you end up buying the Defoe Duvet and matching pillow case.

It's not a blatant manipulation, but a fair assesment that hioghlights a major flaw in your system that leaves you with egg on your face and you don't like it. I can't even say it's my idea as Legend10 is the one who suggested penalties shouldn't count. If Charlton had won another 5 penalties which Bent scored, would that make him better than Drogba? And as for you point about it actually takes bollocks to take responsisbilty, you keep forgetting I also subtracted Bent's 3 penalties from last season aswell.

 

[Legend10]

It's not a blatant manipulation, but a fair assesment that hioghlights a major flaw in your system that leaves you with egg on your face and you don't like it. I can't even say it's my idea as Legend10 is the one who suggested penalties shouldn't count. If Charlton had won another 5 penalties which Bent scored, would that make him better than Drogba? And as for you point about it actually takes bollocks to take responsisbilty, you keep forgetting I also subtracted Bent's 3 penalties from last season aswell.

Aha dragging me into it?

for me there is no way penalties should count.

If a sriker scores 15 Prem goals from open play in 2500 minutes and another scores 18 goals including 8 penalties in 2500 minutes which 1 has the better record?

Surely it's the 15 goal striker as all teams can call on more than 1 decent penalty taker.