Jose Mourinho

[muppetman]

I thought when we got him originally that he would be a pragmatic manager that wasn't afraid to make changes mid game. I loved Poch but for the longest time he would stick with the system come what may and not make a sub until at least 70 minutes.

Today was clearly not working, they hit the woodwork twice and we somehow scored a wondergoal but it was by no means an even contest. Why did he not make changes to try and protect Doherty OR why did we not go on the front foot and try and push them back. Why play Bale, Son, Moura and Kane and then not use them - it makes no sense.

The only thing I can come up with is that maybe the data guys knew the players were all knackered and so we needed to try and conserver energy, hang in there for 70 minutes and then have a go.

I'm not convinced we had some sort of defensive masterplan, we showed no great effort to play on the counter - everyone just looked lethargic and a bit clueless.

Hopefully it's just another bump in the road on our way to greatness, but it is a concern that we seem only able to beat really poor sides.

Today looked like what it was - two bang average mid table sides toiling away without much quality.

 

[stov]

The players didn't execute the plan which can happen

The plan being to defend and Toby to hit long balls over the top. Ingenious.

 

[Oh Teddy Teddy]

I can see the logic, I suppose it’s also the fact that people see anything other than top 4 as a failure for us. This despite the fact that history, investment, pretty much any barometer, suggesting we’ve no right to expect 4th every season.

Agreed and you’re not wrong that we’ve played poorly in this fixture a number of times. For me, he clearly stays until the end of the season but I anticipate it’ll be pretty inconsistent until then — hopefully we switch focus to the cups because I honestly think top four is done for us. And he probably goes at the end of the season barring a European win.

 

[TEESSIDE1]

Jose said we were crap in the 1st half and key players were hiding. He then slammed the ref for the pen decision.

 

[Hazelton]

I see him as almost like a stress ball at this point. He's shown he can change but in the end he always seems to revert back to type.

 

[delawarespur]

Jose or whoever the manager is sets the team up to try to achieve the best possible result. It's that simple. Jose wasn't trying to put the team in the worst position to get a result today. He'll set up to attack more if that's the best way to win, and he's set up the team to sit back if that's the best way to win in his eyes. It's not a Jose masterclass if we win and its not a disasterclass if we lose. It falls on both the players and the manager.

I had and still have no issue with the way Jose et up to play today. It worked against them back in December, and it plays to some of our strengths to play on the counter. Saying that, the application of the setup and the player selection to suit the set up is what I believe Jose is responsible for. If we're gonna play this defensive style, play Sissoko next to Hojbjerg and drop Lucas or bale. The issue is if fans saw Sissoko starting today and say bale on the bench, there would've been a meltdown before kickoff. When in reality, our setup would've suited Sissoko much more than bale. Definitely play Aurier over Doherty regardless of the style.

The team was not set up to deal with arsenal's strengths which are overloads in the wide areas and creating 2 on 1s. Bale was nowhere in helping Doherty when he was on the pitch. Doherty shouldn't have seen the pitch today. In December, Bergwijn and Son and Sissoko and Hojbjerg were helping the fullbacks cover the gaps and the danger in the channels. Saying that, bale and Doherty started. Ndombele deeper. The style and gameplay didn't suit the players on the pitch or the application of the system. If these attacking players are on the pitch, there should be more of an effort to push higher up and engage the ball when their defenders have the ball or their midfielders are picking up the ball deep. Don't let it become a scenario where Doherty has no chance because bale won't track back and help. Make sure Tierney and smith-rowe have as few opportunities as possible to get Doherty in a 2 on 1, and make sure Doherty is put in a difficult defensive situation where he's forced to make positional decisions as little as possible. That's the issue. Maybe Jose didn't set them up defensively or tell them to sit back, and the players were tired and fell back into a low block, but it certainly didn't seem that way.

Lastly, people saying "look what happens when we attack" need to understand game situation. They're 2-1 up with 20 minutes to play. They're naturally gonna want to protect the lead. We attacked and had the ball because they let us for the most part in the last portion of the game. People are acting like we can have the ball and play like that without any pressure put on our defenders with the ball from the start. Some teams will let that happen, but not Arsenal. If the game was level or we were winning, there's no chance we have comfortable defensive possession, and there's no way they let us advance to the final third so easily without pressure. That's called game state. It happens in every game, where teams react to the scoreline. Now I don't believe that players' mentalities or play should be so easily changed by the scoreline, but it happens in football. If a team is winning, the other team is naturally going to want the ball and want to attack more, and the team with the lead for the most part, especially late in games, will want to protect the lead.

The issue I have is in the palace or wolves games where the team sat back trying to protect the lead against teams who don't have immense quality to keep the ball under pressure. We let them attack and build pressure, and that's the issue. Facing more quality, like arsenal, city, Chelsea, etc. I can understand it a little more because in those cases, they will be more likely to play through pressure and create dangerous situations. When we have the quality and ability to take the sting out of a game or keep the ball and we choose not to is when I have issues. today was about the players not suiting the setup, or the approach not suiting the players, which at the end of the day is mostly a managerial issue.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

This is by far the worst arsenal team in my lifetime, we should stop using historical arguments from when they were actually good.

I have to disagree mate they are always

Can’t disagree with that, but we’ve been shit in NLD’s before, and we’ll be shit again. Not sure it’s justification to bin off all the progress in the last few games?

We beat a couple of nothing sides and we were fortunate at Fulham but against Chelsea Liverpool West Ham and Arsenal not even a point. He does nothing to change games other managers out think him and piss over him tactically - there is no attacking theory the football is one dimenisonal his whole game plan revolves around a defensive system conceding the ball and hitting sides on the break that is not a plan to win things long term. The worst thing is that he has nothing else games pass him by what is he paid for? We were waiting for Arsenal to equalise do something pose them some problems

 

[ralphs bald spot]

Jose or whoever the manager is sets the team up to try to achieve the best possible result. It's that simple. Jose wasn't trying to put the team in the worst position to get a result today. He'll set up to attack more if that's the best way to win, and he's set up the team to sit back if that's the best way to win in his eyes. It's not a Jose masterclass if we win and its not a disasterclass if we lose. It falls on both the players and the manager.

I had and still have no issue with the way Jose et up to play today. It worked against them back in December, and it plays to some of our strengths to play on the counter. Saying that, the application of the setup and the player selection to suit the set up is what I believe Jose is responsible for. If we're gonna play this defensive style, play Sissoko next to Hojbjerg and drop Lucas or bale. The issue is if fans saw Sissoko starting today and say bale on the bench, there would've been a meltdown before kickoff. When in reality, our setup would've suited Sissoko much more than bale. Definitely play Aurier over Doherty regardless of the style.

The team was not set up to deal with arsenal's strengths which are overloads in the wide areas and creating 2 on 1s. Bale was nowhere in helping Doherty when he was on the pitch. Doherty shouldn't have seen the pitch today. In December, Bergwijn and Son and Sissoko and Hojbjerg were helping the fullbacks cover the gaps and the danger in the channels. Saying that, bale and Doherty started. Ndombele deeper. The style and gameplay didn't suit the players on the pitch or the application of the system. If these attacking players are on the pitch, there should be more of an effort to push higher up and engage the ball when their defenders have the ball or their midfielders are picking up the ball deep. Don't let it become a scenario where Doherty has no chance because bale won't track back and help. Make sure Tierney and smith-rowe have as few opportunities as possible to get Doherty in a 2 on 1, and make sure Doherty is put in a difficult defensive situation where he's forced to make positional decisions as little as possible. That's the issue. Maybe Jose didn't set them up defensively or tell them to sit back, and the players were tired and fell back into a low block, but it certainly didn't seem that way.

Lastly, people saying "look what happens when we attack" need to understand game situation. They're 2-1 up with 20 minutes to play. They're naturally gonna want to protect the lead. We attacked and had the ball because they let us for the most part in the last portion of the game. People are acting like we can have the ball and play like that without any pressure put on our defenders with the ball from the start. Some teams will let that happen, but not Arsenal. If the game was level or we were winning, there's no chance we have comfortable defensive possession, and there's no way they let us advance to the final third so easily without pressure. That's called game state. It happens in every game, where teams react to the scoreline. Now I don't believe that players' mentalities or play should be so easily changed by the scoreline, but it happens in football. If a team is winning, the other team is naturally going to want the ball and want to attack more, and the team with the lead for the most part, especially late in games, will want to protect the lead.

The issue I have is in the palace or wolves games where the team sat back trying to protect the lead against teams who don't have immense quality to keep the ball under pressure. We let them attack and build pressure, and that's the issue. Facing more quality, like arsenal, city, Chelsea, etc. I can understand it a little more because in those cases, they will be more likely to play through pressure and create dangerous situations. When we have the quality and ability to take the sting out of a game or keep the ball and we choose not to is when I have issues. today was about the players not suiting the setup, or the approach not suiting the players.

andd thats down to the manage isn't it? - to paraphrase he picked a poor side with poor tactics and made poor subs pretty damming

 

[ultimateloner]

Jose's post-match interview:
1) We were shit first half; singled out Lucas as 'decent'
2) Bale and Tanguy lacked intensity
3) The only thing wes than our 1st half was the pen decision

I think most fans would agree with his view of our performance. His interviews suggest that he isn't deluded or anything; he's seeing what everyone else sees. His explainations also make sense. So the question is: why cant he make +ve changes despite seeing our problems?

The most likely-answer is that there isn't any obvious solution to any of our problems.

Problem 1- our right flank being completely out-matched
Sub Doherty off? Aurier probably isnt match-fit otherwise he would have started. Doherty's been shit all season and JM said that before too.
So there is no RB option.
He eventually went with the Bale/Sissoko swap due to Bale's lack of intensity; was the right call, but not a good solution because Sissoko doesn't contribute offensively.

Problem 2 - lack of another game plan
The team overall looked lethargic. If we had gone with a more offensive/energy-depleting game plan (press) we might have conceded even more.

And those are just the obvious ones..

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

We have a pic for when we win. Do we need one for when we lose?

View attachment 83991

Absolutely brilliant ???

 

[DiVaio]

Arteta has clearly moved 'that' club forward with younger & more energetic team and in a shorter timespan.

erm.. not really?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Jose's post-match interview:
1) We were shit first half; singled out Lucas as 'decent'
2) Bale and Tanguy lacked intensity
3) The only thing wes than our 1st half was the pen decision

I think most fans would agree with his view of our performance. His interviews suggest that he isn't deluded or anything; he's seeing what everyone else sees. His explainations also make sense. So the question is: why cant he make +ve changes despite seeing our problems?

The most likely-answer is that there isn't any obvious solution to any of our problems.

Problem 1- our right flank being completely out-matched
Sub Doherty off? Aurier probably isnt match-fit otherwise he would have started. Doherty's been shit all season and JM said that before too.
So there is no RB option.
He eventually went with the Bale/Sissoko swap due to Bale's lack of intensity; was the right call, but not a good solution because Sissoko doesn't contribute offensively.

Problem 2 - lack of another game plan
The team overall looked lethargic. If we had gone with a more offensive/energy-depleting game plan (press) we might have conceded even more.

And those are just the obvious ones..

Throwing Bale and Tanguy under the bus...hmmm...that’s a tap in.

 

[yankspurs]

Sack him now.

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

There is more than one way to play football you don't have to play out from the back. If the other side are pressuring you go long for a bit make them defend put the ball in the corner turn them around a bit make them think. Get in their faces they can't defend and we just let them play exactly the game they bar two miniutes at the end

That’s what we do a lot of the time, we play far to much percentage football. Go long occasionally to mix it up but it seems to be the only way we can get the ball up the pitch against a decent team. The trouble is when you play a decent side turning them round won’t cause them that many issues if they are composed on the ball in their defensive third and more so if you don’t have periods of possession yourself and be able to move up as a unit and be able to back up the play to try and win the ball back high up. Rushed clearances into an isolated forward or area of the pitch isn’t going to cause many teams problems. Our forward players shouldn’t have to rely on scrapes

 

[delawarespur]

andd thats down to the manage isn't it? - to paraphrase he picked a poor side with poor tactics and made poor subs pretty damming

Yeah, not saying Jose didn't get it wrong. He absolutely did. It's just that I didn't mind and still don't mind that the team set up to defend. It's what Jose thinks is best to get a result in the big games, and I don't feel strongly against that style in those games for the most part. But the personnel and application has to match. If bale is on the pitch and you're asking him to help out defensively to cover a fullback who can't defend, then that's the manager's fault. In general through, the players lacked intensity up and down the pitch, except for Lucas and reguilon. It was slow and there was no one showing for the ball in midfield when we were building sustained attacks the few times we were trying. That aspect oof the game does have something (not everything) to do with the players. In terms of subs, Lamela was forced, bale for sissoko I could understand at the time due to the lack of intensity I mentioned and the fact the game was level at the time. If we were trailing and bale was taken off for Sissoko, then that's a pretty obvious issue and I'd be furious. However, Aurier for Doherty would have had similarly a positive impact defensively, and bale is a match winner, so I would've preferred he stayed on. But he did nothing at all, so I can't be that mad at him being taken off. Dele for ndombele I honestly can't really fault him, except that he gave tanguy virtually no time to see if he could impact the game further forward. If you're gonna push him forward to see if he has more of an impact after bringing on Sissoko, you can't take him off 5 mins later. But dele was no worse than tanguy.

 

[Nocando]

Tried to wait for the furore to die down, and hoping the mob have moved on. I don’t necessarily begrudge the criticism Jose gets, infact a lot of it is justified, it’s the unfair standards he’s judged by that annoys me. We’ve won 1 in 15 at the Emirates but apparently it’s a sacking offence for not picking up 3 points, even after one of our best players went off injured in the first half.

Objectively it seems like many have made their minds up on Jose, no matter what we do.

Fair play that you're sticking by him and maybe you have good reason to. He's one of the, if not the, most successful managers in history. As mentioned there have been glimpses and i am very much similar to that poster in that I never wanted him but warmed to him and was desperate for him to do well. Its just he's ripping the heart and soul out of the club in the pursuit of trophies, which i get is what many wanted. Obviously we all wouldn't mind if we were winning but we are scrapping along and if we do win something by the grace of good ( it would be a miracle tbh) then of course i would be over the moon and would be eating many of my words. However i don't know how much of this style i can bear. Its just not how i want to experience supporting this club. I could handle it if he was making us defensively astute but he needs to retain the flair. I just keep seeing us drop deep. He can claim that he isn't telling the players to do that all he likes but i don't believe him. Either he's doing it directly or indirectly and doesn't realise, which is even more concerning.

I genuinely believe he needs to change what he knows but he simply wont because he has had so much success with this style. when he was at rorto, real, inter and even Chelsea there were very few teams that he would have come up against that pressed. Probably only Barca. But now all the teams do it and his tactics rarely work against it. It just surrenders everything to the opposition and we are left hanging on then playing catch up. It only really works when a team isn't very good at the press and we can get possession back or counter effectively.

We have such clinical devastating players i can understand why he would think it would work but its only really worked for Leicester in recent times and that's because they were an unknown entity who were fighting relegation the season before. Even with them they had to change because it wasn't working anymore.

 

[ajspurs]

Just a bit sick of watching us approach matches like this to be honest. I think it's all within Jose's capability to have us playing better, he's shown as much but he's shooting himself in the foot by still throwing in these negative performances too. Even similar to the City game in that we didn't impose ourselves at all and there have been many games against good and 'poor' opposition where we haven't imposed ourselves. We've had too many games as such.

 

[Joely]

Don't see him here next season if we miss out on a CL place, even if we somehow miraculously win the League Cup. It's all on the Europa imo. If we get through the tie on Thursday, hope will be another decent draw and some luck on the way to try and win the thing. Win it and he stays.

League wise, not convinced we'll show the consistency to finish higher than some of the other teams vying for a CL position. This is mainly due to seeing the same problems over and over again and the manager seemingly not really having a solution to them. If anything, feels like under Mourinho this season we've had more questions than answers. End of the day, can claim the players are not carrying/playing the way Mourinho wants etc but realistically we are not going to rip up a whole squad when it's easier to replace the manager. Might argue that we only need a few players and Jose can turn things around but my gut feeling is Mourinho will be looking at more a wholesale type of change.

Think Levy will be seriously disappointed with what he's seen this season, especially after a summer where we brought players in during a difficult time. Can see serious questions being asked in the boardroom around why Mourinho hasn't been able to get more out of this squad and only thing that'll save him is qualifying for the CL imo.

After 3 wins on the bounce, I was looking to see us carry that on and show we were over the problems pre the Burnley game but today's performance could easily have fitted somewhere in that bad run and I'm expecting more non/abject performances mixed in with some decent wins in our remaining games.

 

[KingKay]

Fair play that you're sticking by him and maybe you have good reason to. He's one of the, if not the, most successful managers in history. As mentioned there have been glimpses and i am very much similar to that poster in that I never wanted him but warmed to him and was desperate for him to do well. Its just he's ripping the heart and soul out of the club in the pursuit of trophies, which i get is what many wanted. Obviously we all wouldn't mind if we were winning but we are scrapping along and if we do win something by the grace of good ( it would be a miracle tbh) then of course i would be over the moon and would be eating many of my words. However i don't know how much of this style i can bear. Its just not how i want to experience supporting this club. I could handle it if he was making us defensively astute but he needs to retain the flair. I just keep seeing us drop deep. He can claim that he isn't telling the players to do that all he likes but i don't believe him. Either he's doing it directly or indirectly and doesn't realise, which is even more concerning.

I genuinely believe he needs to change what he knows but he simply wont because he has had so much success with this style. when he was at rorto, real, inter and even Chelsea there were very few teams that he would have come up against that pressed. Probably only Barca. But now all the teams do it and his tactics rarely work against it. It just surrenders everything to the opposition and we are left hanging on then playing catch up. It only really works when a team isn't very good at the press and we can get possession back or counter effectively.

We have such clinical devastating players i can understand why he would think it would work but its only really worked for Leicester in recent times and that's because they were an unknown entity who were fighting relegation the season before. Even with them they had to change because it wasn't working anymore.

The irony is that I really didn’t want him in the first place either, I just don’t see the point in constantly changing managers. A lot of the same people who wanted Poch out would have us rip everything up and start from scratch again. Where does it end?

 

[NEVILLEB]

Ndombele should be playing where Moura was playing today.

He’s not someone you want to trust in a 2 man midfield.