Jose Mourinho

[rossdapep]

I think his biggest mistake today was paying them too much respect. They’re a shit mid table team. We should of approached the game like we did against palace.

This is the issue with Jose's psych though. Prepare for all of their strengths and try to take advantage of their weaknesses. However, when you are being pinned back or when you get the ball back, you need to have more in the locker than just 'focus on their weaknesses'.

I hate to praise Arteta because I still don't think he's all that but today he had players moving from all directions. Full backs underlapping and overlapping/AM dropping to receive or ghosting in the spaces between/ Lacazette drifting wide and other players moving into the spaces - their players were constantly on the move. Constantly. They also pressed in groups which meant when they won the ball back they had multiple passing options.

In comparison with us. When Sanchez had the ball, no-one came to show. The FBs stayed wide. Kane dropped deeper or ran into the channel....and that was about it. There's just not enough variations about our play. If you replaced Kane/Son/Bale with players like Lucas/Bergwijn/Lamela, I think we'd all be alarmed at how poor we are in terms of strategy - we'd be mid mid table. Teams like Fulham and Brighton are poor in terms of quality but they do have a system that allows them to wrestle control of games or get at teams when they need to. And I think if they had Lucas/Lamela/Bergwijn as their front three, they'd do better than what Jose is showing.

I guarantee one of those teams would have had a spell in that first half today (or at least come out the traps second half) and given Arsenal something to worry about. They may have got sucker punched but the point is they would have taken some initiate and tried to get a foothold.

Under Jose, in these scenarios, we only do that for the last ten minutes, which shows you it's not necessarily down to mentality, it's more that they cannot fall back onto a successful attacking system when the other team is on top.

 

[LeParisien]

This is the issue with Jose's psych though. Prepare for all of their strengths and try to take advantage of their weaknesses. However, when you are being pinned back or when you get the ball back, you need to have more in the locker than just 'focus on their weaknesses'.

I hate to praise Arteta because I still don't think he's all that but today he had players moving from all directions. Full backs underlapping and overlapping/AM dropping to receive or ghosting in the spaces between/ Lacazette drifting wide and other players moving into the spaces - their players were constantly on the move. Constantly. They also pressed in groups which meant when they won the ball back they had multiple passing options.

In comparison with us. When Sanchez had the ball, no-one came to show. The FBs stayed wide. Kane dropped deeper or ran into the channel....and that was about it. There's just not enough variations about our play. If you replaced Kane/Son/Bale with players like Lucas/Bergwijn/Lamela, I think we'd all be alarmed at how poor we are in terms of strategy - we'd be mid mid table. Teams like Fulham and Brighton are poor in terms of quality but they do have a system that allows them to wrestle control of games or get at teams when they need to. And I think if they had Lucas/Lamela/Bergwijn as their front three, they'd do better than what Jose is showing.

I guarantee one of those teams would have had a spell in that first half today (or at least come out the traps second half) and given Arsenal something to worry about. They may have got sucker punched but the point is they would have taken some initiate and tried to get a foothold.

Under Jose, in these scenarios, we only do that for the last ten minutes, which shows you it's not necessarily down to mentality, it's more that they cannot fall back onto a successful attacking system when the other team is on top.

Spot on - great post.

No sophisticated attacking patterns of play

 

[Haddock]

Lastly, people saying "look what happens when we attack" need to understand game situation. They're 2-1 up with 20 minutes to play. They're naturally gonna want to protect the lead. We attacked and had the ball because they let us for the most part in the last portion of the game. People are acting like we can have the ball and play like that without any pressure put on our defenders with the ball from the start. Some teams will let that happen, but not Arsenal. If the game was level or we were winning, there's no chance we have comfortable defensive possession, and there's no way they let us advance to the final third so easily without pressure. That's called game state. It happens in every game, where teams react to the scoreline. Now I don't believe that players' mentalities or play should be so easily changed by the scoreline, but it happens in football. If a team is winning, the other team is naturally going to want the ball and want to attack more, and the team with the lead for the most part, especially late in games, will want to protect the lead.

Exactly. It happens virtually every match. The team that has something to defend will do so, which will make the chasing side have more of the ball and more space to occupy, and therefore usually creates more chances.

You can’t really judge a team or a match by how the last 10 minutes are played out.

I’m amazed how people who obviously watch a lot of football constantly neglect this in their analysis.

 

[rez9000]

I can't say that I can't wait for Mourinho to be sacked and for a new manager to come in and utterly fail to get this squad over its psychological issues, but....

There will be a small, evil part of me that will crack a very wry and knowing, and at the same utterly bereft and bitter smile when the anti-Mourinho is appointed and the same pattern repeats itself.

Minus Kane. And probably Sonny.

I look forward to reviewing this thread then. And bitterly laughing.

 

[rez9000]

Yep. I’m here for the venting and the repeat posts we’ve all read 1000 times this season

I went and got popcorn.

 

[rossdapep]

Exactly. It happens virtually every match. The team that has something to defend will do so, which will make the chasing side have more of the ball and more space to occupy, and therefore usually creates more chances.

You can’t really judge a team or a match by how the last 10 minutes are played out.

I’m amazed how people who obviously watch a lot of football constantly neglect this in their analysis.

You are totally right, teams do drop back when protecting. However it did still highlight that we can get at teams, as I don't think Arsenal were very comfortable defending that to be honest. If we'd have played like that for another 10 mins they would have broken.

They may have dropped back psychologically or strategically but I saw a bit of panic in their defending which we spent 80 mins doing nothing to try take advantage of. We need to be able to force teams back and causing a bit of panic can do this.

 

[Dougal]

I can't say that I can't wait for Mourinho to be sacked and for a new manager to come in and utterly fail to get this squad over its psychological issues, but....

There will be a small, evil part of me that will crack a very wry and knowing, and at the same utterly bereft and bitter smile when the anti-Mourinho is appointed and the same pattern repeats itself.

Minus Kane. And probably Sonny.

I look forward to reviewing this thread then. And bitterly laughing.

The idea that going the Mourinho route was the only solution to leaving the Poch route has always been ridiculous. Something can be done with this squad. Mourinho just refuses to try it.

Also, that’s fucked up.

 

[Nocando]

The irony is that I really didn’t want him in the first place either, I just don’t see the point in constantly changing managers. A lot of the same people who wanted Poch out would have us rip everything up and start from scratch again. Where does it end?

Yeah i get that. Just ive only ever called for Graham to go. Its strange as i don't even want Jose sacked, id rather he turned it around. I just can't stand how we play at the moment. I do wish he wasn't in charge and if he gets sacked ill be quite relieved.

As i said i agree that we shouldn't be changing managers all the time however now is actually a good time as we have less competition.

Man utd, man city, arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool are all unlikely to change.

Psg wont be.

Maybe real and barca but I don't think until the end of the season.

However I do think we should stick with jose to see what he can do and evaluate when the season is over.

 

[rez9000]

The idea that going the Mourinho route was the only solution to leaving the Poch route has always been ridiculous. Something can be done with this squad. Mourinho just refuses to try it.

Also, that’s fucked up.

To your first point, that's as maybe. We'll never know. But from what I saw today, I know that this bunch will let themselves down every time they come under pressure. And that's not going to change under a different manager. Not for a long time.

As to your second point, you know that already!

 

[Dougal]

I’m done til Thursday. Not getting dragged into another week of this nonsense.

 

[delawarespur]

Under Jose, in these scenarios, we only do that for the last ten minutes, which shows you it's not necessarily down to mentality, it's more that they cannot fall back onto a successful attacking system when the other team is on top.

This is a major issue. It's something I've maintained even when we were winning consistently in the fall and early winter. This is the biggest concern I have with winning the carabao/europa. Now Jose definitely coaches attack. There's no professional coach at any level in the world who just let the players play, not to mention a coach with the achievements that Jose has. But it's more of a loose structure where players have the freedom to use their own intelligence to create chances and cause havoc. Sometimes this is more effective than a team who attacks with circuits and structured ball rotation from defence to attack. There's no best way to attack, each has it's own strengths and weaknesses. Sometimes structured patterns and circuits restrict players' spontaneous creativity. But in games and situations where we need to keep the ball and it will clearly be beneficial to do so, some sort of basic pattern of just keeping the ball would be nice. The loose structure is fine for the most part when coupled with a low block or defensive mindset, as long as there players and application are there to allow the forward players more confidence to not drop so deep to help out.

It's mostly a personnel issue defensively, it was an application and intensity issue in midfield today with regards to showing for the ball and keeping the ball. And overall today it was a managerial issue in not having the right players to suit the system and/or vice versa. If bale is gonna play, there needs to be more courage as a unit. We can't afford to have bale on the pitch if he's gonna be tasked with helping out a hopeless right back, because for the most part he won't help out. Get the players in the best position succeed in a certain setup, or make sure the players don't have to play in way that doesn't suit them. That's on Jose today, more so than in previous games where a low block was much more effective due to the personnel and application.

 

[Nocando]

I can't say that I can't wait for Mourinho to be sacked and for a new manager to come in and utterly fail to get this squad over its psychological issues, but....

There will be a small, evil part of me that will crack a very wry and knowing, and at the same utterly bereft and bitter smile when the anti-Mourinho is appointed and the same pattern repeats itself.

Minus Kane. And probably Sonny.

I look forward to reviewing this thread then. And bitterly laughing.

Maybe today has taken its toll bit i can't work out where you stand. Why would you be laughing?

 

[spurs mental]

Fuck me this place is a mess. Over and out.

 

[Nocando]

Fuck me this place is a mess. Over and out.

Im not entirely sure it is. Ive seen a lot worse. Most of the debate is reasoned. I do wonder if the default response is to lambast something, whether its the manager, the team, your dog or SC. Either way I don't think its classic knee jerk material, that ive read anyway.

 

[Oh Teddy Teddy]

I can't say that I can't wait for Mourinho to be sacked and for a new manager to come in and utterly fail to get this squad over its psychological issues, but....

There will be a small, evil part of me that will crack a very wry and knowing, and at the same utterly bereft and bitter smile when the anti-Mourinho is appointed and the same pattern repeats itself.

Minus Kane. And probably Sonny.

I look forward to reviewing this thread then. And bitterly laughing.

I must say, I find this a really bitter post — the cult-like obsession with the man is incredible. But, really? Laughing if Spurs are failing for another couple of years under a new manager?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Fuck me this place is a mess. Over and out.

Be good to hear your actual thoughts to be honest as a staunch supporter.

 

[rez9000]

I must say, I find this a really bitter post — the cult-like obsession with the man is incredible. But, really? Laughing if Spurs are failing for another couple of years under a new manager?

No. Read it again. I said laughing "bitterly". That isn't the laughter that's joyful. That isn't taking pleasure. It's venting sorrow.

Because the problem we have, and the problem we will continue to have, does not stem from the manager. It stems from the culture and psyche of the club as a whole. No-one will be able to change that in the short space of time that everyone expects - it's too engrained and it's too pervasive.

So, in the absence of having the energy to try and convince people who don't want to see it, I'll just sit here and wallow in the potential of the club once more being pissed away from inside.

 

[thebenjamin]

What really does blow my mind is that we all knew Tierney was their entire threat. Their entire game plan is Tierney and has been for weeks. We all knew playing Bale was a risk that needed to be offset to cope with Tierney, because Bale doesn't track back. And yet we walked straight into it by playing the most defensively inept fullback at the club behind Bale not tracking, and giving Doherty no protection from midfield.

So from the team selection of both sides everything that was obviously going to happen, happened. And yet we seemed surprised by it.

Absolutely blows my mind - everything that was clearly going to happen, happened.

 

[mrlilywhite]

Maybe today has taken its toll bit i can't work out where you stand. Why would you be laughing?

Because some folk think it's solely down to the players and not a washed-up Jose Mourinho, when in fact it's more of the latter and less of the former - Oh and cause some folk get the satisfaction of saying I told ya so. The truth is that the problems lie in 3 places at this club and in this order - The chairman, the Manager & then the players. The short term problem is definitely the manager and the long term one is something we can't do anything about unless someone has a couple of £billion.

 

[spurs mental]

Be good to hear your actual thoughts to be honest as a staunch supporter.

Haha. Nice bait.

I'm not a staunch supporter, I'm just not in the Jose out party bus.

Missed the first 40 minutes due to Mothers Day.

The 5 minutes I saw until half time was dogshit.

The second half was much the same. Zero heart and desire, in an NLD. Truly disappointing. Looked like there was no belief that we could get anything from the game. A little unlucky to concede a penalty. But some players showed nothing today. Son going off early obviously didn't help our cause, and much as I love Lamelas desire and grit he was asking to be sent off and could have been before he was.

The subs surprised me. Sissoko was a strange one, would have liked to see Aurier come on for Doc. But can see why Sissoko came on to cover that side as Doc was getting absolutely pummeled. The lack of anything from midfield didn't help him either.

Alli didn't really make any difference, but if he had connected with Kane's cross we could be saying different.

Overall hugely disappointing after a really promising 10 days. Arsenal wanted it more today. That's the most irritating thing for me of all.