Latest from The Goat

[Kendall]

Dawson not keen on life in the big city?

Considering he probably lives somewhere like Chigwell or Epping and has enough money to live anywhere he likes in the herts or Essex countryside this is pretty far fetched.

He probably only has to go to london when we are playing and if that's too much for him then he has problems, because most clubs are based in area's where a lot of people live so that they attract people to watch the games.

Maybe he wants to go to Blackburn.

or maybe he misses his friends/family?

they can be quite important, you know.

 

[DC_Boy]

or maybe he misses his friends/family?

they can be quite important, you know.

yep - pretty much my point Kendall

 

[SpurSince57]

because we were fighting for 5th right up until the last day!

So, league position became irrelevant after we won the CC? What about pride? What about providing entertainment for the poor sods who shell out a substantial chunk of their income for season tickets? That doesn't matter? And weren't we led to believe that everyone is fighting for his place?

Maybe that actually wasn't the case. Ramos said last week:

“I’m not going to discover now anything new about a group of players I have been with for a long time and know perfectly well.”

Does that mean his mind has been made up for some time, that it's already been decided who's on his way? In that case, it's hardly a surprise that those whose cards have been marked can't be bothered, because whatever they do will be insufficient.

And of course there's no need for those who know they're safe to bother either, is there?

 

[Legend10]

or maybe he misses his friends/family?

they can be quite important, you know.

You may well be right and if that was what the ITK said I could totally understand it, but it doesn't, it says that he isn't keen on life in the big city rather than him being homesick.

 

[jimbo]

Of course they should be playing for pride, personal if nothing else. However this is a big difference between playing for pride and playing for European football the following season. If you're a naturally lazy or demotivated player, then having nothing but pride to play for is not going to get you up for games regardless of what the management do.

 

[Kendall]

You may well be right and if that was what the ITK said I could totally understand it, but it doesn't, it says that he isn't keen on life in the big city rather than him being homesick.

That will just be referring to the location of being in and around London (as a big city), not literally 'big city life' in the centre, I'm sure.

I think he's from Northallerton which is very much a small town in the rural area of the North Riding of Yorkshire, so it's understandable that after 2/3 years he could be getting a bit figety, especially as he's not had the best year.

 

[Chris12345]

Haha no I'm not saying that at all, they should be trying their hardest every game and it sucks that they don't, especially with their salaries!

But the fact of the matter is, psychologically (sic, possibly) it's much harder to motivate yourself for a game you know deep down doesn't matter... last season, we needed to finish in a European spot, and we had the possibility of being the "best of the rest", which are both great motivators for the players...

After the defeat to Birmingham (I think? the Carling Cup hangover) 5th was pretty much out of the question, and 4th was never really a possibility after a couple of months of the season... if the players know there is nothing other than "pride" to play for, then no matter how "Winston Churchill" Ramos is... deep down, players aren't gonna put their body on the line if its not gonna make a difference...

Psychically as well, they won't be getting the same adrenaline rush they would usually...

Coupled with the fact that a lot of the opposition we've faced recently have been fighting for something... we've been second best!

I think it would be much more productive to play youngsters now our Premiership and European status for next season is secured... if say (picked at random) Rose was picked to play, he would have something to play for, and would be much stronger for it!

Think about when you're at work, when you're working towards a deadline, I bet you work much harder to meet it, stay in the office late, skip lunch to get it done... the next day, your not gonna skip lunch to do some work that isn't all that important are you? But you're still being paid the same!

 

[Legend10]

That will just be referring to the location of being in and around London (as a big city), not literally 'big city life' in the centre, I'm sure.

I think he's from Northallerton which is very much a small town in the rural area of the North Riding of Yorkshire, so it's understandable that after 2/3 years he could be getting a bit figety, especially as he's not had the best year.

You may be right, more than anything my post probably highlights what i think of the ITK.

 

[eddiebailey]

Iit's understandable that after 2/3 years he could be getting a bit figety, especially as he's not had the best year.

And that I think is the problem; if he had had a good season we would not be hearing anything about homesickness. It is when things are going badly you crave the comfort of familiar surroundings.

 

[tRiKS]

Not giving players a look in is hardly the work of a motivational genius. Besides, the problem is supposedly the inability to motivate players "who have their minds on their holidays", which suggests it is not those who have already been discarded.

If the iTK is correct Ramos is having problems getting performances out of his first choice players. Which would rather seem to be supported by results.

I asked questions i didn't intend to passs a judgement on ramos or the players in that post

BUT...for the record Yeah, i've said in previous threads on and about our recent games and form, that I really think Ramos isn't so worried at all about the results. In fact I think it's a deliberate ploy to lower expectation, give himself a rest after a mentally and physically draining season (big move club and home) and in the process protect valuable players fitness for what is likely to be a tough pre-season and a really good shot at it all next year.

Why would you as a manger want to waste some great half time team talks now? why dilute your impact by churning stuff for these meanlingless games? why show oppositon managers anymore of your tactical ideas? I would do exaclty the same as Ramos. Take a back seat, rest my mind and energy. A by-product of that would be to see who can motivate themsleves or not, see who can carry the mantle on the pitch without direction and who can't. We've had only 2 bookings (both Ohara) since the chelsea game. thats not evidence of a manager encouraging effort and passion. thats a manger saying do what you have to, to play football but don't get invoved in any battles. Add to that idea the fact that alot of more impressionable managers will be thinking "we can get at spurs" I bet at least to start with, we have teams coming to the lane playing 442 more oftern than this or last year. Ramos wants them to come with a formation that suggrests they think they have a squeak.

It's a long sighted view that i'm very encouraged by and increasingly excited about how fresh and hard we'll hit the league next season... FROM AUGUST.

 

[Bromavinci]

i fail to see why anyone would be unmotivated; apart from the obvious fact that they get paid (IMO) way too much money and should be PROFESSIONALS.

those who are getting shipped out and whether they know it or not are still playing for their careers..if they play shite and look disinterested, surely their worth goes down and they may fail to be picked up by another prem team..or maybe one or two of them will be happy playing in the championship next year???

If I knew I was being sold I would be playing my heart out to pick up the best possible club and deal I could get...its called ambition...however if I wasnt playing, BUT training my heart out and not getting a look in, I could see myself getting 'unmotivated' and resigned to my fate...

 

[Adam]

While this list is abit exaggerated, i think we will sell probably 8 or 9 out of the 13 of these players, which is a staggering number.

Most likely we will sell all 6 of the defenders listed, and i would hope replace them with only 2 or 3 quality players to push the first teamers. And from the midfielders, i would say at least 2 of the 6 have to go (even if one was on loan... BONG). We cant carry so many average players in each position.

No, i still dont think thats right at all. When do teams actually ever sell 9 of their squad players in one transfer window? It never happens like that. We are more likely to sell players gradually, starting with the ones who will really never play again, eg Stalteri and Gardner, and those who we might get a decent amount of money for, eg Chimbonda. Then in January we will probably sell a couple more, and then again next summer, with players like Tainio, who are still players worth having around as he can play in a variety of positions. This idea of a mass clear-out in a team that is playing in Europe is completely unprecedented and i doubt we will be the first to test it out.

 

[SpurSince57]

I asked questions i didn't intend to passs a judgement on ramos or the players in that post

BUT...for the record Yeah, i've said in previous threads on and about our recent games and form, that I really think Ramos isn't so worried at all about the results. In fact I think it's a deliberate ploy to lower expectation, give himself a rest after a mentally and physically draining season (big move club and home) and in the process protect valuable players fitness for what is likely to be a tough pre-season and a really good shot at it all next year.

Why would you as a manger want to waste some great half time team talks now? why dilute your impact by churning stuff for these meanlingless games? why show oppositon managers anymore of your tactical ideas? I would do exaclty the same as Ramos. Take a back seat, rest my mind and energy. A by-product of that would be to see who can motivate themsleves or not, see who can carry the mantle on the pitch without direction and who can't. We've had only 2 bookings (both Ohara) since the chelsea game. thats not evidence of a manager encouraging effort and passion. thats a manger saying do what you have to, to play football but don't get invoved in any battles. Add to that idea the fact that alot of more impressionable managers will be thinking "we can get at spurs" I bet at least to start with, we have teams coming to the lane playing 442 more oftern than this or last year. Ramos wants them to come with a formation that suggrests they think they have a squeak.

It's a long sighted view that i'm very encouraged by and increasingly excited about how fresh and hard we'll hit the league next season... FROM AUGUST.

So, to sum up, we (and particularly those who pay good money for the 'privilege') should accept getting hammered at home by the Barcodes because it's going to be jam tomorrow?

 

[Kendall]

I asked questions i didn't intend to passs a judgement on ramos or the players in that post

BUT...for the record Yeah, i've said in previous threads on and about our recent games and form, that I really think Ramos isn't so worried at all about the results. In fact I think it's a deliberate ploy to lower expectation, give himself a rest after a mentally and physically draining season (big move club and home) and in the process protect valuable players fitness for what is likely to be a tough pre-season and a really good shot at it all next year.

Why would you as a manger want to waste some great half time team talks now? why dilute your impact by churning stuff for these meanlingless games? why show oppositon managers anymore of your tactical ideas? I would do exaclty the same as Ramos. Take a back seat, rest my mind and energy. A by-product of that would be to see who can motivate themsleves or not, see who can carry the mantle on the pitch without direction and who can't. We've had only 2 bookings (both Ohara) since the chelsea game. thats not evidence of a manager encouraging effort and passion. thats a manger saying do what you have to, to play football but don't get invoved in any battles. Add to that idea the fact that alot of more impressionable managers will be thinking "we can get at spurs" I bet at least to start with, we have teams coming to the lane playing 442 more oftern than this or last year. Ramos wants them to come with a formation that suggrests they think they have a squeak.

It's a long sighted view that i'm very encouraged by and increasingly excited about how fresh and hard we'll hit the league next season... FROM AUGUST.

All this says to me is that this mentality is the difference between the Spurs of now & the team we aspire to be. Top teams don't do this, they drill in the winning mentality whether we've got something to play for or not.

 

[Bobishism]

So, league position became irrelevant after we won the CC? What about pride? What about providing entertainment for the poor sods who shell out a substantial chunk of their income for season tickets? That doesn't matter? And weren't we led to believe that everyone is fighting for his place?

Maybe that actually wasn't the case. Ramos said last week:

“I’m not going to discover now anything new about a group of players I have been with for a long time and know perfectly well.”

Does that mean his mind has been made up for some time, that it's already been decided who's on his way? In that case, it's hardly a surprise that those whose cards have been marked can't be bothered, because whatever they do will be insufficient.

And of course there's no need for those who know they're safe to bother either, is there?

You're reading way too much into what Ramos says.

The league position became irrelevant. All that talk of pride was to fill seats.

 

[eddiebailey]

No, i still dont think thats right at all. When do teams actually ever sell 9 of their squad players in one transfer window? It never happens like that. We are more likely to sell players gradually, starting with the ones who will really never play again, eg Stalteri and Gardner, and those who we might get a decent amount of money for, eg Chimbonda. Then in January we will probably sell a couple more, and then again next summer, with players like Tainio, who are still players worth having around as he can play in a variety of positions. This idea of a mass clear-out in a team that is playing in Europe is completely unprecedented and i doubt we will be the first to test it out.

There is some truth in that. I am sure that Ramos does intend a major clear out, but a lot will depend on what offers we get and what offers the players get. It will also hopefully depend to an extent on what replacements we can get in, though that does not always seem to be a consideration.

But I would not be surprised if in two years time less than half a dozen of the squad Ramos inherited are still with us.

 

[SpurSince57]

You're reading way too much into what Ramos says.

The league position became irrelevant. All that talk of pride was to fill seats.

I am? What other interpretation did you have in mind?

Seats are filled in advance. That's probably just as well.

 

[nidge]

I've names players that i've noticed being poor since the cup final, as players who could be possible. I wouldn't want Keane sold, but he definitely hasn't looked up for it of late.

Right there is a difference between being out of form and not actually trying. Keane's problem is the former and not the latter.

 

[Davey-O]

Right there is a difference between being out of form and not actually trying. Keane's problem is the former and not the latter.

Unless of course its the latter and not the former. Or maybe its a combination of the former and latter. Whose to say it is just the latter or the former. For all we know it may be neiter of the former or the latter. :shrug:

 

[talkshowhost86]

Right there is a difference between being out of form and not actually trying. Keane's problem is the former and not the latter.

Agreed

Players who havn't been trying (in my opinion)

Chimbonda
JJ (in most games since PSV)
Hudd

I'm not sure who else. I almost put Zokora but my feeling is that with him he's just not good enough so it's hard to tell if he's trying or not.

Maybe Lennon? He's been very on and off effort wise anyway.