Let's All Laugh At... Let's All Laugh At West Ham

[Hakkz]

Singing their stupid bubble song, barely beating a league one club with 10 men.

 

[riggi]

Where's that from?

 

[Gb160]

Where's that from?

Could hear it on the telly...
they were also singing it with 'We own our own ground' as well earlier on.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Saw in the links I posted above they dug down a bit (31in), washed the soil & reused it. They also used a membrane too. I would imagine that due to the spiraling costs that they dug as shallow as was legally or buildability required, then put the membrane down and used the washed soil where required. If that was the case then as you suggest, lowering the pitch etc... would be very costly.


From Express link: -

Thanks, that's helpful. Most of what is in the Express, unusually, is accurate, except for the subtle spin.

There have been a number of contaminated sites that have been earmarked for redevelopment, where the local authority responsibly hangs the most onerous conditions one could imagine on the developer to remediate the site and log every fucking thing they do as evidence; then the developer goes ahead and painstakingly does everything asked of them, builds the [residential] development, markets it, sells it (with every buyer's solicitor being sent a copy of the planning consent, which includes the decontamination requirements) ... only for a load of ignorant fuckwits, two years later, to blow up a Daily Express style horror-show of innuendo and anti-science bullshit.

The land was contaminated! We're all going to die! The developer and the council have conspired to poison us! The councillors were all paid off! Heads must roll!

At least half of the undeveloped brown field sites in London and the Southeast are contaminated. The easy ones have long since been built upon. In the same way as people misuse the word "toxic", while failing to understand that all toxicity is a factor of dosage - that everything is toxic in a high enough dose and nothing is toxic in a small enough quantity - people treat the word "contaminated" as an automatic scandal. There is a well-established technology and an expert industry for decontaminating development land. It's effective and reliable. The tabloids, as usual, want shooting.

 

[Lilbaz]

The land was indeed contaminated. That's one of the main reasons why the £500m+ headline cost of the OS was a misunderstanding. It included the remediation of the whole site.

There are two usual ways to deal with contaminated land. You can do one or the other or both, depending on the severity and nature of the contamination, the depth to which the ground is compromised and the use to which the land is intended to be put.

You can either remove and replace the contaminated soil, taking the old soil to a specialist hazardous waste tip, or you can cap it with a suitable membrane that will prevent the contaminants from escaping. Often you do both: cart away 0.5m or 1.0m of soil, lay down a capping membrane and then import replacement soil. I don't know the details at the OS, but the contamination was severe, so I'd expect them to have done both.

In theory: if they only reduced level to remove all the contaminated soil, then they could excavate and lower the pitch if that were otherwise feasible (which I doubt); if they capped it, then they can't reduce level at all without redoing all the containment measures, which would be ££££; if they did both, they could reduce level down to the cap and no further.

It's not a practical idea.

Begs the question why don't companies that contaminate the soil have to pay for cleaning it?

 

[Lilbaz]

Their reply

You pay for our ground....

 

[Flynn]

As I understand it the contaminated ground beneath Lady Bradys desk runs Deep.

 

[Gb160]

Their reply

You pay for our ground....

Think that was Wimbledon as well mate...'We Pay for your ground'?

 

[Lilbaz]

Think that was Wimbledon as well mate...'We Pay for your ground'?

What i'm saying is west ham fans actually like the fact that taxpayers pay for their ground. You sing at them and they just reply yes you do.

 

[Gb160]

What i'm saying is west ham fans actually like the fact that taxpayers pay for their ground. You sing at them and they just reply yes you do.

Sums them up really...Id be embarassed if that was us tbh, it's like boasting about being on benefits.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Begs the question why don't companies that contaminate the soil have to pay for cleaning it?

Most of these sites were contaminated by industrial uses in the 19th or early 20th century, long before the advent of proper health and safety laws. There's no one to pursue for the costs.

 

[Lilbaz]

Most of these sites were contaminated by industrial uses in the 19th or early 20th century, long before the advent of proper health and safety laws. There's no one to pursue for the costs.

Many but garages with oil should be held accountable etc... although i guess the cost of clean up factors in with the price of land?

 

[Ionman34]

Me too.

I also love that you can extrapolate from this to identify that West Ham's Premier League win percentage at the OS (35.9%) is currently worse than the following teams' win percentage at the OS:

Liverpool
Manchester City
Brighton
Newcastle
Tottenham
Burnley
Watford
Southampton
Arsenal
Manchester United
Chelsea
Leicester

This makes West Ham the 13th most successful Premier League team at their own home ground.

#Fortress

That is superb

 

[Ionman34]

Thanks, that's helpful. Most of what is in the Express, unusually, is accurate, except for the subtle spin.

There have been a number of contaminated sites that have been earmarked for redevelopment, where the local authority responsibly hangs the most onerous conditions one could imagine on the developer to remediate the site and log every fucking thing they do as evidence; then the developer goes ahead and painstakingly does everything asked of them, builds the [residential] development, markets it, sells it (with every buyer's solicitor being sent a copy of the planning consent, which includes the decontamination requirements) ... only for a load of ignorant fuckwits, two years later, to blow up a Daily Express style horror-show of innuendo and anti-science bullshit.

The land was contaminated! We're all going to die! The developer and the council have conspired to poison us! The councillors were all paid off! Heads must roll!

At least half of the undeveloped brown field sites in London and the Southeast are contaminated. The easy ones have long since been built upon. In the same way as people misuse the word "toxic", while failing to understand that all toxicity is a factor of dosage - that everything is toxic in a high enough dose and nothing is toxic in a small enough quantity - people treat the word "contaminated" as an automatic scandal. There is a well-established technology and an expert industry for decontaminating development land. It's effective and reliable. The tabloids, as usual, want shooting.

I used to work for a Project Director who worked on the Olympic site. With the vast majority, I believe they only remediated to a nominal depth then capped it with a Clay layer. They were proposing to do the same at the Southall site I worked on, though I hear now that that site has been stopped atm on environmental grounds (this is a rumour though so may be inaccurate).
The bigger issue they’ll have is the noxious weeds. I was told that the whole area was inundated with Japanese Knotweed and Giant Hogweed. They dealt with it by digging it out, membrane wrapping it, then burying it.
I don’t know if any was in the stadium footprint, but I suspect it was. If they plan on digging down then they’ll likely find the knotweed, which costs a fortune to dispose at a licensed waste facility. On top of this, I doubt that they’d remediate and reuse. If they plan on going 25m deep (which I think is a mile off personally, 5-1M is more realistic), that’s between 150,000 and 200,000 m3 of muck to remediate then dispose of. Who will want that amount of muck when HS2 will dwarf that with the tunnel arisings?
Whichever way they go, remediate or dig&dump, it will cost millions to dispose of, whether it goes by truck or canal.

 

[Lighty64]

I used to work for a Project Director who worked on the Olympic site. With the vast majority, I believe they only remediated to a nominal depth then capped it with a Clay layer. They were proposing to do the same at the Southall site I worked on, though I hear now that that site has been stopped atm on environmental grounds (this is a rumour though so may be inaccurate).
The bigger issue they’ll have is the noxious weeds. I was told that the whole area was inundated with Japanese Knotweed and Giant Hogweed. They dealt with it by digging it out, membrane wrapping it, then burying it.
I don’t know if any was in the stadium footprint, but I suspect it was. If they plan on digging down then they’ll likely find the knotweed, which costs a fortune to dispose at a licensed waste facility. On top of this, I doubt that they’d remediate and reuse. If they plan on going 25m deep (which I think is a mile off personally, 5-1M is more realistic), that’s between 150,000 and 200,000 m3 of muck to remediate then dispose of. Who will want that amount of muck when HS2 will dwarf that with the tunnel arisings?
Whichever way they go, remediate or dig&dump, it will cost millions to dispose of, whether it goes by truck or canal.

not sure what they want to do, this all lead from someone saying about Spam buying the stadium due to EL20 financial problems.

I said if they buy it they would still need to keep the running track or knock it down and start again, t which someone replied that they could drop the pitch/surrounds by 10-25m

looking at the replies I'd say they wouldn't be able to do it to easy, and would need to play somewhere else if it was possible. hopefully the new owners will just evict them, now that would be fun. Enic should buy the land and raise their rent to 30m a season

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Many but garages with oil should be held accountable etc... although i guess the cost of clean up factors in with the price of land?

In theory it does. Over the past few years, the problem has been that development land is scarce and, in a rising market, developers have been willing to overpay for land and then try to lay off the remedial costs on others. Fortunately, most local authorities are wise to this kind of shit.

When I was buying land for housing associations in the '90s and '00s, we frequently would acquire former petrol stations and industrial backland sites, partly because HAs could just about afford to buy the problem sites that private developers sniffed at. The owners would often balk and demand "the same that my mate got from Barratts for his [pristine] site". And we'd have to explain in detail how much we'd have to spend to get his rank, carcinogenic site back to a habitable standard.

The bigger issue they’ll have is the noxious weeds. I was told that the whole area was inundated with Japanese Knotweed and Giant Hogweed. They dealt with it by digging it out, membrane wrapping it, then burying it.
I don’t know if any was in the stadium footprint, but I suspect it was. If they plan on digging down then they’ll likely find the knotweed, which costs a fortune to dispose at a licensed waste facility.

I've done four Japanese Knotweed eradication contracts for housing associations, including one absolute stinker along a virtually inaccessible and wildlife-protected streamside in West London. We couldn't do large scale earth removal in a domestic setting, nor along the stream, so the chemical approach was the only feasible tactic, using multiple applications of a cocktail of herbicides including Glyphosate. I'm not sure we could do that now. Though I wonder about the comparative cost to the eco-system of Glyphosate vs. Japanese Knotweed.

If it's just the stadium pitch, they could probably put down a membrane that would keep the JK down, which would eventually starve it to death. If it's a wider area, good fucking luck to them...

 

[Gassin's finest]

In theory it does. Over the past few years, the problem has been that development land is scarce and, in a rising market, developers have been willing to overpay for land and then try to lay off the remedial costs on others. Fortunately, most local authorities are wise to this kind of shit.

When I was buying land for housing associations in the '90s and '00s, we frequently would acquire former petrol stations and industrial backland sites, partly because HAs could just about afford to buy the problem sites that private developers sniffed at. The owners would often balk and demand "the same that my mate got from Barratts for his [pristine] site". And we'd have to explain in detail how much we'd have to spend to get his rank, carcinogenic site back to a habitable standard.



I've done four Japanese Knotweed eradication contracts for housing associations, including one absolute stinker along a virtually inaccessible and wildlife-protected streamside in West London. We couldn't do large scale earth removal in a domestic setting, nor along the stream, so the chemical approach was the only feasible tactic, using multiple applications of a cocktail of herbicides including Glyphosate. I'm not sure we could do that now. Though I wonder about the comparative cost to the eco-system of Glyphosate vs. Japanese Knotweed.

If it's just the stadium pitch, they could probably put down a membrane that would keep the JK down, which would eventually starve it to death. If it's a wider area, good fucking luck to them...

The Wandle?

 

[TheChosenOne]

@TheChosenOne What was the red card for? i missed it.

Funnily/sadly enough The Guardian mention a Hernandez 'dive' which changed the course of the match.
And like I said - "Arm to arm"

“For the contact that there was between the two players, absolutely,” Ardley said, when asked whether he thought Hernández had dived for McDonald’s second caution. “It’s not like a yank of the arm. It’s not like a pull of the shirt where you can honestly feel you’ve been tugged back. It’s an arm on an arm and he was never getting to the ball anyway"

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...edon-west-ham-united-carabao-cup-match-report

 

[teok]

https://www.football365.com/news/toure-agent-teases-london-medical-rules-out-two-clubs

‘Toure @YayaToure has passed a medical in London. Yaya is close to signing a new contract,’ he tweeted, with three obligatory flame emojis. Strong social game.

In follow-up messages, he ruled out moves to both West Ham and Crystal Palace, the two initial favourites to sign him.

‘It’s not West Ham, 100%,’ he said. ‘Yaya is a champion. The last place is not for him.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

The Wandle?

Nah, that's in South London.

This was a small stream in Hounslow. I can't remember the name, but it's here.