Let's talk about the wage bill

[tttcowan]

The problem is fairly obvious. Lots of people would agree, both our fans and others, we have the best 11 in the prem. Or at least we did do last season. And we just don't pay them enough to keep them... That just seems a fact at this point.

It's not just we don't pay our top players enough given there quality compared to rich clubs. West Ham, Bournmouth and others pay their top players more. Isn't Defoe on more than 100k? If we want to keep these players we have to at the very least pay more than those clubs to our superior players and we don't.

Whether it's the stadium or whatever else where the money goes. Or whether our squads too big, whether we pay our players outside of the first team squad too much I don't know. But the fact is they ARE all underpaid and not just compared to the silly rich clubs. What would West Ham be willing to pay Harry Kane. It's more than we would it seems.

As for Rose and the others who will inevitably get their heads turned, it'll be like any job where you can list the positives and negatives.

Danny Rose for example,
Positives

• Poch
• I like all my team mates
• Tottenham has felt like it's going places
• I've been here a long time, it feels like home, I don't really want to leave.

Negatives

• I feel like I could get, not just a bit more, but a lot more money elsewhere.
• This will be last contract, my last big pay day
• I want medals and I've been in some real good teams at spurs but we still haven't won anything.
• Tottenham aren't signing anyone big and everyone else is.
• Tottenham aren't paying a lot of the other players what they're worth I don't think... at all.

I'm not even sure it's anyone's fault. It's a shame Danny felt the need to do that interview but people make mistakes and obviously he felt he needed to. We don't know what goes on behind closed doors.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

If it's true that we underpay our squad relative to most other comparable clubs, we need to understand why that is.

I don't buy simplistic explanations about Levy being tight. He is a successful businessman in an ultra-competitive industry. If there's one thing he clearly understands, it's that you don't maximise your wealth or the value of your business by leaving a disproportionate amount of money sitting in the bank where it does nothing and earns nothing and as a result diminishes the value of your investment.

Neither do I believe the nonsense that he's decided to sit still rather than push on. Firstly, you don't sit still for long in business, you either go forwards or backwards. Really, it doesn't make any sense when the one thing that everyone knows is most likely by far to fill the stadium, earn more revenue and TV money etc. and boost the value of the company, is success on the pitch. Anyone arguing that he doesn't understand that is being ignorant by looking for an easy argument and a convenient way to vent a bit of spleen out of frustration.

There has to be a better reason that actually makes sense. If it is true that we underpay in the first place, which I agree looks very likely, but isn't completely proven yet.

But I haven't yet seen one convincing explanation put forward by anyone here, with one possible exception, that there's a better way of doing things. Could it be that he genuinely believes that the present market is unsustainable, as he has said? Maybe, and what if he's right? If he's right then some of the clubs are in for big, big problems and we'll be glad not to be one of them. But not many people believe that, and it doesn't feel probable at the moment, with tidal waves of cash crashing into the PL every time the TV companies renegotiate their deals.

So for everyone who is keen and has the time to analyse the THFC accounts and compare them with every other top club in Europe, would you please do the same with the major TV and media businesses and tell us what their prospects are over the next five years, how the market for live-screened matches is likely to develop in financial terms, and how that will affect the finances of the clubs that have become dependent on that source of revenue compared with those who haven't. And what will happen to the negotiating position of the leagues that become more dependent on TV money than gate receipts and other forms of direct sales.

It might be more illuminating than calling Levy a tight git who's happy to see the club go backwards, despite having moved it forwards every year that he's been able to, which is most years.

 

[spids]

My main frustration is that TV money has nearly trebled in the last 5 years but we appear to have only moved our wage structure ceiling up by only ~20%. However, the three main points to note are that:

1. We have built a world class training facility (~£150M), and are in the process of building a world class stadium (total cost £800M) that will enable the next generation of the club to compete at the highest level (fairly). That equals roughly a billion pound investment in the club infrastructure that is an investment for the future.

2. The team has improved year on year with Levy's current approach. We have churned out a lot of academy talent (Kane, Winks, Onomah, etc.) and invested in lower league players who have blossomed (Alli, Trippier).

3. We cannot compete with financially doped clubs (Man C, Chelsea) and have finished above non-doped rivals (Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal).

Levy does need to be careful. Poch can rightly point out that slow starts in the last two seasons effectively cost us the title. Having a completed squad at the start of pre-season training has to be worth considering if Poch is to be kept happy.

Also, the players (in an inflated market) are worth more. Whilst we cannot compete with Man C, Chelsea, PSG etc. we should not be paying less that West Ham or Crystal Palace. The likes of Kane, Alli, Eriksen, Aldeweireld, etc. Should be on at least 50% more in the current market place. Poch should be one of the best paid managers in the world, especially if we expect to develop raw talent to save on big transfer fees.

 

[Dougal]

If the likes of Sunderland were paying as much as us doesn't it just go to show how fucked up they are as a club? Maybe if they had a business plan they wouldn't have started the season last week in the Championship. Same goes for West Ham, Palace, etc. Teams throwing money at the situation and not progressing. We are doing everything right and although we are at the centre of this storm I'd like to see where we stand when the window is closed and the actual season starts.

 

[seanwhite1961]

It's not just we don't pay our top players enough given there quality compared to rich clubs. West Ham, Bournmouth and others pay their top players more. Isn't Defoe on more than 100k? If we want to keep these players we have to at the very least pay more than those clubs to our superior players and we don't.

Whether it's the stadium or whatever else where the money goes. Or whether our squads too big, whether we pay our players outside of the first team squad too much I don't know. But the fact is they ARE all underpaid and not just compared to the silly rich clubs. What would West Ham be willing to pay Harry Kane. It's more than we would it seems.

Free transfer, which is why he was able to negotiate that wage.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

My main frustration is that TV money has nearly trebled in the last 5 years but we appear to have only moved our wage structure ceiling up by only ~20%. However, the three main points to note are that:

1. We have built a world class training facility (~£150M), and are in the process of building a world class stadium (total cost £800M) that will enable the next generation of the club to compete at the highest level (fairly). That equals roughly a billion pound investment in the club infrastructure that is an investment for the future.

2. The team has improved year on year with Levy's current approach. We have churned out a lot of academy talent (Kane, Winks, Onomah, etc.) and invested in lower league players who have blossomed (Alli, Trippier).

3. We cannot compete with financially doped clubs (Man C, Chelsea) and have finished above non-doped rivals (Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal).

Levy does need to be careful. Poch can rightly point out that slow starts in the last two seasons effectively cost us the title. Having a completed squad at the start of pre-season training has to be worth considering if Poch is to be kept happy.

Also, the players (in an inflated market) are worth more. Whilst we cannot compete with Man C, Chelsea, PSG etc. we should not be paying less that West Ham or Crystal Palace. The likes of Kane, Alli, Eriksen, Aldeweireld, etc. Should be on at least 50% more in the current market place. Poch should be one of the best paid managers in the world, especially if we expect to develop raw talent to save on big transfer fees.

I agree to a lot of that. But we shouldn't just look at whatever clubs like West Ham and Crystal Palace (not the best role models for anyone) do, or even Liverpool and assume we have to do the same. We have done things differently and beaten them in so many ways, and Levy's creed seems to be "don't copy, do it right and we'll get there in the end."

It's just that we don't know whether we will. And many of us are losing our nerve and believe we have to follow everyone else.

It wouldn't really matter if it was just the fans who felt that way, because if we start smashing other teams off the pitch again we can always revise our opinions. The trouble is some of the players are also losing their nerves and aren't prepared to wait for the rewards to come. so this is a very testing period. Fold now, or play the long game.

None of us truly knows the right answer.

 

[double0]

I love what Spurs are doing training stadium team squad management all fantastic however the rate at which we are progressing wages will rare up. I think us fans will have to expect the odd unrest when other clubs are paying ridiculous wages on bang average player. They will be a point I'm sure once the stadiums built we become an even greater club and can pay the going rate within reason. Contract don't mean shit player sign clubs offer but you'll always get out bursts on both sides. I personally believe football is such now that if a player wants out just let them go when fees are agreed.... There's no point keeping unhappy players they come and go.

 

[double0]

All the old ideas.. Ie let the player rot booing etc imo theres no point it's toxic... Best thing is agree or move on simple

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

One thing that I've continually read in the last few days is that the likes of West Ham, Everton and Palace "pay more wages" than us. This is bullshit on some many levels. First of all our top two earners are Kane and Lloris who are on anything between 100k-120k pw - those teams don't have players on more than that. So that's obviously bullshit. We also have the 6th largest wage bill which directly links to the fact we have the 6th highest income. Those other teams are have an completely inconsistent wage structure in that they will have 1 or 2 players on sky high wages where as the rest of the team will be on anything from 50K downwards. Mainly because they don't have as many good players as us.

Levy as obviously taken a view that he wants to distribute the wages evenly and fairly throughout the squad, so their isn't a massive disparity between the top earner and lowest earner. Our issue is, every member of the first 11 can claim to be worth more than 100k a week. It is obviously totally unrealistic to give everyone such a big raise. We can't have a the 3rd or 4th highest wage bill but only the 6th largest income - that's Risdalenomics!

As Poch said last season the club needs to catch up with the level of the team and is why we're building a new stadium. One more season to wait and it we can start giving everyone the pay rises they deserve.

 

[michaelden]

No. We need an owner who is prepare to sink three quarters of a billion of his own money into the club like Abramovich has with Chelsea. That's the total of their cumulative losses since he bought the club, and he's about to sink the same again into the club to pay for their new stadium.

no thanks buddy, i like my owner's business model, frustrating as it may be.

 

[dontcallme]

Last time we won a cup our strikeforce left at the end of the season.

The players getting some success is not going to save us from losing key players.

If we up our wage budget it still won't be in line with the biggest payers so won't save us from losing key players.

I don't think there's going to be a mass exodus but if Eriksen, Alli etc get to a level where the top clubs make them a priority signing and offer to double their wages there's pretty much nothing we can do within our means to stop it from happening.

 

[Hercules]

Talk is once in new stadium the wages will almost double within reason.

 

[Archibald Leitch]

no thanks buddy, i like my owner's business model, frustrating as it may be.

Yes. It's the same as most other clubs and it's likely to be the only one we have for the foreseeable.

 

[chinaman]

Talk is once in new stadium the wages will almost double within reason.

The new stadium alone will not generate enough revenue to double wages. We also need a perpetually successful team to get in advertising and merchandising revenues aside from gate receipts.

 

[yido_number1]

No. We need an owner who is prepare to sink three quarters of a billion of embezzled money stolen from the Russian people like Abramovich has with Chelsea. That's the total of their cumulative losses since he bought the club, and he's about to sink the same again into the club to pay for their new stadium.

Fixed your post!

Fact is we are never gonna be able to pay as much as Barca, Real, UTD, Chavski, or City. We could pay everyone more but the fact is other clubs will just pay more again. WE are never going to be able to match them its futile. We have to just hope that we can develop players through the accademy that show some loyalty and pray we can pick people up before they are stars accepting that players like Modric and Bale will end up at Barca or Real.

 

[Lilbaz]

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/latest-news/premier-league-update-their-ffp-rules

So we can only increase our wage bill by £7m + whatever extra we make in non tv related income.

So where do we spend it? New players? Existing or a bit of both? Just for reference if barkley wages are £100k a week thats £5.2m a year.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Interestingly, today on Sky Sports when they spoke about us on Gillette Soccer Saturday they all seemed to agree that we are doing things the right way, they pointed out that everyone was praising us over the past year when we agreed all those long new contracts for our key players, and they said that the players have nobody to blame but themselves/ their agents if they aren't getting the money they feel they deserve. Le Tissier even said that Levy is the sane man in a world of lunatics (or words to that effect).

The it cut to the Go Compare advert and I realised that the tenor from the Finale at WHL is the Go Compare man.

I feel like I know nothing anymore...

 

[Lilbaz]

Interestingly, today on Sky Sports when they spoke about us on Gillette Soccer Saturday they all seemed to agree that we are doing things the right way, they pointed out that everyone was praising us over the past year when we agreed all those long new contracts for our key players, and they said that the players have nobody to blame but themselves/ their agents if they aren't getting the money they feel they deserve. Le Tissier even said that Levy is the sane man in a world of lunatics (or words to that effect).

The it cut to the Go Compare advert and I realised that the tenor from the Finale at WHL is the Go Compare man.

I feel like I know nothing anymore...

Saw him sing rule britannia at the proms. He's good (not le tissier, the go compare bloke).

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Saw him sing rule britannia at the proms. He's good (not le tissier, the go compare bloke).

I saw him at WHL! I still have finale on record, around the 52nd minute you can see me and my dad in the crowd quite clearly. 20 years of being on an ST (about 45 for him) and it's the first time it's happened.

 

[Archibald Leitch]

Fixed your post!

Fact is we are never gonna be able to pay as much as Barca, Real, UTD, Chavski, or City. We could pay everyone more but the fact is other clubs will just pay more again. WE are never going to be able to match them its futile. We have to just hope that we can develop players through the accademy that show some loyalty and pray we can pick people up before they are stars accepting that players like Modric and Bale will end up at Barca or Real.

Thanks for the corrections. Yes - if we really want to compete, we can wish that a nice democratic State buys the club. Bahrain perhaps, or Zimbabwe. The alternative is to just stop bellyaching and hope we can do a Leicester.