Levy, ENIC and DC

[Roberts84]

Definitely him. He popped his shoes off just before we pulled into Green Park. I managed to snap this baby without him noticing. View attachment 45022

How does he squeeze them into those pointy shoes ?

 

[LeParisien]

Ah BBlG with one of your usual pious, virtue-signalling rants with its continuing subtext of "I'm a better supporter than you because I never question our owners". If you choose to "tug a furlock" toward ENIC and thank them for all they've done, that's your right; I won't criticise you for doing so. But don't tell me how I'm supposed to feel, or how much "gratitude" I'm compelled to display. Has it never occurred to you that it's possible to love this football club but still distrust the motives or critique the actions of the owners? Or is that too fucking outrageous for you? For me, Spurs and ENIC are not synonymous; they're not mutually inclusive. And ENIC certainly don't define the identity of the Club I love; they're just the company that currently own its market rights. So instead of foaming at the mouth with your usual self-righteous indignation for anyone who dares to criticise the Board, why don't you just thoughtfully and respectfully debate the points or views expressed in the post; you know, like adults do? Challenge what was written. Tell me where I've got it so patently wrong. Like I said in the post, I sincerely hope I have got it wrong. I'd even welcome someone as smug as you telling me so. (There you go mate, you're not the only one who can "play the man instead of the post").

I disagree with nearly everything you say and I find you obnoxious but I FARKING LOLD at that hahaha

 

[The Doc]

How does he squeeze them into those pointy shoes ?

Well, he seemed pretty attached to some gold ring, to the point where he seemed a bit precious about it imo.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

@[email protected] please point out what part of my post was disrespectful? I said I find it amazing that you display such disdain for the people in charge and don’t credit them at all with the progress we’ve made, and I pointed out that even if their motivations are not footballing but financial, it’s still got us this far, but I’m not sure where I was disrespectful.

You, on the other hand, call me smug, accuse me of blind faith, and painted a picture of me performing sexual acts on myself in displays of blind love to our owners. Who is being disrespectful here?

As for telling you how to feel, nope, I didn’t do that either. I did express amazement at your feelings, but I not once told you to feel any other way. Your inferences are your own and your welcome to them, but please don’t put words in my mouth.

Regarding thoughtful and structured posts, I often take time to construct these, I provide tangible events and facts rather than the conjecture and circumstantial theory you provide, and all you ever respond to it with is a doh or a spam rating, most probably because you’re not able to come up with anything to actual refute those posts beyond more conjecture and circumstantial theory.

Not that I need to justify myself, but:

1. I do see the flaws in the board, I do feel there are areas that have been mismanaged and I do say so where and when relevant.
2. I don’t in the slightest doubt your love for the club, in fact I think it’s your love for the club that fuels you to divulge in such extreme opinions.
3. I am a better supporter than you. No subtext here, I’m happy to be explicit about it

 

[[email protected]]

Lol how many years has this argument been going on? Any winner yet?

Until someone comes in and buys the club enic are what we've got for better or worse.

You're absolutely right, Lilbaz! Hopefully, the "winner" will be our football team when the owners eventually invest in it and buy our manager a player he really coverts! We all surely benefit from that: the team, Poch, and the supporters (even those who defend the lack of spending!!). Hope you're well mate.

 

[Lighty64]

I disagree with nearly everything you say and I find you obnoxious but I FARKING LOLD at that hahaha

Either your talking to yourself or you have quoted @[email protected] in which I’d not see.

If you haven’t then I officially apologise to John, if you have quoted him the post you have made is the reason I put him on ignore

 

[eViL]

I've been saying this for years but Levy's not f***ing about, he's trying to grow us into the biggest club in football.
He's not interested in short term gain, only long term, sustainable, growth.

Revenue comes in 3 streams, TV, Match day, and commercial:
TV is huge, but similar to all the other Prem teams.
Match day will be the biggest in the world when the stadium opens.
But commercial was always our weakness, we could never compete with the established giants.
So he's turned the stadium into a multi-eventer and is pushing for a strong NFL tie in to create large non-football commercial growth.

Once the non-footballing commercial revenue is established we'll see more investment on the pitch as the footballing commercial growth will be the next area.

Our fans really need to stop panicking as in 5 years we will be as unrecognisable as we are today compared with 10 years ago.

Someone gets it.

Dogs, you paint a beautifully hopeful and optimistic picture of the future, mate. And why wouldn't you? This is exactly the fantasy we've been sold by ENIC in order to justify limiting investment in the squad whilst simultaneously prioritising millions in operating cash flow for a property development that will garner them huge profit. Like every fan, I'd love for your vision to be realised. But the reality is, ENIC are actively trying to sell the Club. I very much doubt they'll even be here in 5 years. And even if they fail to find a buyer and do stick around, don't expect them to change their time-honoured recruitment policy of rarely spending more on incomings than they recoup in sales. Where we've been told "money was available this window but Poch didn't want anyone" I don't think it's too loose a translation to read, "£11 million was available from the sale of Dembele but Poch didn't trust that amount of money would buy a player of significant quality to improve the squad". We're being duped mate. The NWHL won't be the game changer we hope it to be under ENIC: they'll still continue with their "sell to buy" transfer policy right up until the time they flog the Club. I really hope I'm wrong mate, and the increased match day revenue will, just as promised, be the catalyst that allows us to truly compete in the market, but evidence of the last 2 windows - despite the myriad excuses - is pretty damning, isn't it. And any misinformation we're spun via certain ITK (unwittingly, for the most part, I'm sure) is just an attempt to keep us further wedded to that "future spending power" myth and further away from the truth: remember this time last year when we were told "targets had already been lined up for the summer because Poch wants players in early", "there's £150 million transfer budget", "it's a huge summer for Levy/ENIC cos they know they have to back the manager", "it's time to shit or get off the pot for Levy and ENIC", etc.? All plausible and convenient "info leaks" especially around ST renewal time. Yet the only irrefutable fact is that not a single player has been bought in 2 windows, (probably because during that time no players have been sold for a significant amount of money). We all of course hope your "prophesy" comes true, let's hope it does. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than you saying to me, "see mate, I was right all along, and you were totally wrong about ENIC". So let's see how the next window pans out. I'm keeping everything crossed that you get to say "I told you so" as early as next summer. Take it easy, Dogs! COYS

Someone doesn't.

There's still people out there that think Levy is investing £850m on the new stadium to sell the club for £1b. Senseless.

The next complaint will be that the stadium has only been built to take the fans' money, but that's exactly what it needs to do if we want to play with the big boys.

We can't match City or Chelsea due to the way they are run, but do you think Manchester United runs a charity? That club is a money making machine and any of their success over the last 20 years was down to having the spending power (from Matchday and Commercial sales) to bully every other club in the League into releasing their best players and a sustained period under one manager.

That's the business model and Poch is the MANAGER, not the coach. A lot of people underestimate his influence and power in the club.

 

[[email protected]]

@[email protected] please point out what part of my post was disrespectful? I said I find it amazing that you display such disdain for the people in charge and don’t credit them at all with the progress we’ve made, and I pointed out that even if their motivations are not footballing but financial, it’s still got us this far, but I’m not sure where I was disrespectful.

You, on the other hand, call me smug, accuse me of blind faith, and painted a picture of me performing sexual acts on myself in displays of blind love to our owners. Who is being disrespectful here?

As for telling you how to feel, nope, I didn’t do that either. I did express amazement at your feelings, but I not once told you to feel any other way. Your inferences are your own and your welcome to them, but please don’t put words in my mouth.

Regarding thoughtful and structured posts, I often take time to construct these, I provide tangible events and facts rather than the conjecture and circumstantial theory you provide, and all you ever respond to it with is a doh or a spam rating, most probably because you’re not able to come up with anything to actual refute those posts beyond more conjecture and circumstantial theory.

Not that I need to justify myself, but:

1. I do see the flaws in the board, I do feel there are areas that have been mismanaged and I do say so where and when relevant.
2. I don’t in the slightest doubt your love for the club, in fact I think it’s your love for the club that fuels you to divulge in such extreme opinions.
3. I am a better supporter than you. No subtext here, I’m happy to be explicit about it

Thank you mate, a really considered response. And I genuinely appreciate it. I'm sorry if I've been disrespectful toward you in the past; that's uncalled for. It won't happen again. We clearly have diametrically opposing views on ENIC and I'd be delighted to debate those views respectfully with you in the future. One thing we most certainly have in common is our support for this great football team of ours; it's probably why we're both so passionate in our opinions and so entrenched in our positions. As for your list mate, I totally agree with #1 and #2, but as for #3!!! Not a chance mate! I wish you well BBlG and truly hope that come next summer, you'll be saying "see John, I told you ENIC and Levy were the good guys, look how our manager has been supported in the transfer market". But if they don't invest in the squad mate, please don't patronise me with bullshit excuses. That would certainly test my respect for you. Take care fella!

 

[[email protected]]

I disagree with nearly everything you say and I find you obnoxious but I FARKING LOLD at that hahaha

Je vous en prie, Monsieur! No, seriously I'm not trying to be obnoxious, mate. I'm simply trying to present my argument in a considered and respectful way, but understand how provocative that can be if you hold the opposite point of view. Franchement, je ne veux vraiment pas te vexer, mon pote. J'ai pas l'intention d'être odieux! Take it easy Le Parisien

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

Given that you've been on this site for the last 10.5 years, I can only assume that you remember at least that far back, so I continue to be amazed at how someone can have witnessed the constant, remarkable improvements this club has made in that time and bear such antipathy towards the people responsible for it. Even if the overriding plan is to sell us at a massive profit, then the fact that Enic have improved us from being the level that Everton currently are to the level we are at now in order to do so can only be a good thing.

Also, considering Enic are desperate to sell, it's quite amazing that they are the longest serving owners of any Premier League club, with Levy the longest serving chairman. Fucking chancers.

ENIC are infinitely better than Alan Sugar. ENIC are far better and more competent than most other owners. We as a club have progressed in a fantastic fashion under ENIC’s ownership. Daniel Levy is a better Chairman than 90% of PL chairmen.

I doubt many fans would disagree about any of the above, even the most vocal anti-BSoDL like me.

The debate, such as it is, is whether having been genius enough / lucky enough (take your pick) to appoint possibly one of the top 3 coaches in the world they are ambitious or bold enough to do what is necessary to take the next step. Perhaps the biggest divide is with respect to what ENIC’s ambitions are. Having asked us as fans to cough up so much money are they about to move to the next phase where we really compete in terms of squad investment or are they just stringing us along while working very hard in the background to monetise their investment. As you know I am firmly in the latter camp. Thankfully we won’t have to wait long to see who is right as I think if we see the usual zero net spend this summer fewer of the BSoDL will remain patient, although I’m sure there are some who for as long as Poch works his magic and keeps us in the top 4 will buy each new excuse ad infinitum.

Where I also differ from many is in being blasé about an ENIC sale. Many seem to think this is a non-event rather than a potentially catastrophic event that will set us up to need to extract large amounts of cash each year to deliver a return to the new owner, cash that by definition won’t be available to be spent on the squad.

 

[Lighty64]

ENIC are infinitely better than Alan Sugar. ENIC are far better and more competent than most other owners. We as a club have progressed in a fantastic fashion under ENIC’s ownership. Daniel Levy is a better Chairman than 90% of PL chairmen.

I doubt many fans would disagree about any of the above, even the most vocal anti-BSoDL like me.

The debate, such as it is, is whether having been genius enough / lucky enough (take your pick) to appoint possibly one of the top 3 coaches in the world they are ambitious or bold enough to do what is necessary to take the next step. Perhaps the biggest divide is with respect to what ENIC’s ambitions are. Having asked us as fans to cough up so much money are they about to move to the next phase where we really compete in terms of squad investment or are they just stringing us along while working very hard in the background to monetise their investment. As you know I am firmly in the latter camp. Thankfully we won’t have to wait long to see who is right as I think if we see the usual zero net spend this summer fewer of the BSoDL will remain patient, although I’m sure there are some who for as long as Poch works his magic and keeps us in the top 4 will buy each new excuse ad infinitum.

Where I also differ from many is in being blasé about an ENIC sale. Many seem to think this is a non-event rather than a potentially catastrophic event that will set us up to need to extract large amounts of cash each year to deliver a return to the new owner, cash that by definition won’t be available to be spent on the squad.

so what was behind our improvement once Jol took over. we have only missed out on Europe once since Jol's reign, would of been 2 had we not won the League Cup.

we managed to finish in the top 4 twice, and only because of Chelsea winning the CL missed out, and that was without Poch.

also weird our 1st 10 seasons with ENIC at the helm before we got permission, not once did we have a nett spend, we might of not been the biggest, but we was 3rd. since then we have had 4 seasons where we have spent more than we have received and 4 we have sold more.

As you have mentioned someone put in an offer for the club, but Levy turned them down, or ENIC and moved they goal post. the thing is I can't see anyone buying us for 2b, unless we start having regular success, and don't think any new buyer would buy us for that amount with a now big debt, and not having a successful team, or they will take forever and a day to gain their money back, and if they don't put the money into the team themselves, the clubs value will drop and they will never make a profit when they move on.

I can't see ENIC actually selling us until:

1, the development is complete (Hotel, flats & offices) and sold off

2, they have a product to sell, and for that money a successful 1

to do that Levy knows he will need to invest, because if he doesn't the 42k season tickets will get harder and harder to sell. also that if he doesn't and we head backwards we won't even have European football at all, and stadium not earning money, and no 1 in their right minds being interested in buying us, well not for 2b.

all you are doing, is what I'm doing giving my view and opinion, but because of 1 seriously bad season in the transfer market, and the ST prices you are looking at the worst, and nothing about our progress with ENIC, and no proof that your theory will be remotely true.

 

[LeParisien]

Je vous en prie, Monsieur! No, seriously I'm not trying to be obnoxious, mate. I'm simply trying to present my argument in a considered and respectful way, but understand how provocative that can be if you hold the opposite point of view. Franchement, je ne veux vraiment pas te vexer, mon pote. J'ai pas l'intention d'être odieux! Take it easy Le Parisien

ENIC are infinitely better than Alan Sugar. ENIC are far better and more competent than most other owners. We as a club have progressed in a fantastic fashion under ENIC’s ownership. Daniel Levy is a better Chairman than 90% of PL chairmen.

I doubt many fans would disagree about any of the above, even the most vocal anti-BSoDL like me.

The debate, such as it is, is whether having been genius enough / lucky enough (take your pick) to appoint possibly one of the top 3 coaches in the world they are ambitious or bold enough to do what is necessary to take the next step. Perhaps the biggest divide is with respect to what ENIC’s ambitions are. Having asked us as fans to cough up so much money are they about to move to the next phase where we really compete in terms of squad investment or are they just stringing us along while working very hard in the background to monetise their investment. As you know I am firmly in the latter camp. Thankfully we won’t have to wait long to see who is right as I think if we see the usual zero net spend this summer fewer of the BSoDL will remain patient, although I’m sure there are some who for as long as Poch works his magic and keeps us in the top 4 will buy each new excuse ad infinitum.

Where I also differ from many is in being blasé about an ENIC sale. Many seem to think this is a non-event rather than a potentially catastrophic event that will set us up to need to extract large amounts of cash each year to deliver a return to the new owner, cash that by definition won’t be available to be spent on the squad.

So the question everyone really wants to know the answer to - who is the bigger anti- BSoDL.

Allez dites-moi mes potes .. qui déteste le patron le plus?

 

[vegassd]

This is exactly the fantasy we've been sold by ENIC in order to justify limiting investment in the squad whilst simultaneously prioritising millions in operating cash flow for a property development that will garner them huge profit.

I think this sentiment is probably one of the biggest dividing lines between the two sides of the ENIC debate. If you (or anyone) view the stadium build as purely a capital investment designed to make money then you will have a negative view of ENIC. If you (or anyone) view it as an amazing sports arena designed to help the team be successful you will have a positive view. The reality is likely somewhere in between... it's been built to help the club whilst being a relatively risk-free way to spend money and protect value.

Unfortunately this debate seems to push people to the extreme ends of the conversation where it's very hard to hear what others are saying. We go from being on different sides of the fence to then being in the next garden along, then the next and the next, and before you know it we're at opposite ends of the street hurling accusations etc! Calling it a "fantasy we've been sold" seems a touch OTT to me, and I think is unnecessary given the very level tone of much of your post.

I really hope I'm wrong mate, and the increased match day revenue will, just as promised, be the catalyst that allows us to truly compete in the market, but evidence of the last 2 windows - despite the myriad excuses - is pretty damning, isn't it. And any misinformation we're spun via certain ITK (unwittingly, for the most part, I'm sure) is just an attempt to keep us further wedded to that "future spending power" myth and further away from the truth:

And another key divider which is essentially one summer transfer window; I don't think that January is a window to really judge anything, especially considering the lack of action from other clubs. I'm baffled as to why we didn't get anything done last summer but I'm not going to judge the merits of ENIC solely on that. It was an unprecedented thing to do, but as a club we're in an unprecedented time.

I don't think the stadium build provides carte blanche for not strengthening by the way, and I don't think that the excuse for repaying debt will wash with fans once we are back home. However, I think that it does warrant a bit of extra leeway in terms of spending at the moment. Like most businesses I would guess that ENIC want to see financial stability when parting with big chunks of cash - or maybe predictability is a better word to use. To my mind that would help explain why they appear very willing to invest in the bricks-and-mortar stuff as opposed to the volatile business of player transfers. Throw in the odd Janssen and Soldado and it adds fuel to that fire.

Had we pushed the boat out in terms of player spending last summer I think we may well be in a cup final right now and be on a similar points tally to Liverpool. Or it could have gone the opposite way - impossible to tell. But I could see us facing some really tough financial choices due to the stadium delays. Would we have been able to pay for all the overtime that's gone in to moving the build along? Would we have had to arrange Wembley for the full season to negotiate a better rental deal? Would we have been able to extend the borrowing facility like we did if we were already stretched? It's impossible to tell, especially without knowing all the ins and outs, but I can definitely see those things being problems. It's why I think this is an unprecedented time for us.

Again, I think that the real truth of last summer will exist somewhere in the middle of all these opinions. But saying things like "misinformation we're spun" and "future spending power myth" only moves us further away from that messy middle ground where much of real life happens.

And I totally appreciate that there are some full-blooded ENIC fans out there who can get into fairly extreme hyperbole going the other way. I find it just as grating.

 

[[email protected]]

So the question everyone really wants to know the answer to - who is the bigger anti- BSoDL.

Allez dites-moi mes potes .. qui déteste le patron le plus?

Come on mate, you've been presented with considered and well-reasoned arguments, and to just reduce those views to, "it's only cos you hate Levy" is lazy and deflecting at best; facetious and demeaning at worst. You've always struck me as a fair-minded sort of bloke, so I'm sure this is just an attempt at sarcasm/humour on your part. But even so, why not "just play the post instead of the man/men"? For the record, I don't hate anyone; and certainly not Levy, I've never even met the guy. I'd just like to see investment in the squad. Pure and simple. That isn't some anti-Levy agenda; it's a pro-Spurs agenda.

 

[swarvsta]

Wow, Mr. John Weldon.

Never thought I would read such passive aggressive posts from someone on this forum.

Scary!

 

[Lighty64]

So the question everyone really wants to know the answer to - who is the bigger anti- BSoDL.

Allez dites-moi mes potes .. qui déteste le patron le plus?

It’s been him for quite a few years. When I picked him up during the summer he didn’t like it because we should of spent some of the money we made last season. I then said he was always like it even when we don’t make such big profits and it was the same old,

We never spend
ENIC are taking us backwards
They only want to sell us
Blah, blah, blahdy blah

 

[BringBack_leGin]

ENIC are infinitely better than Alan Sugar. ENIC are far better and more competent than most other owners. We as a club have progressed in a fantastic fashion under ENIC’s ownership. Daniel Levy is a better Chairman than 90% of PL chairmen.

I doubt many fans would disagree about any of the above, even the most vocal anti-BSoDL like me.

The debate, such as it is, is whether having been genius enough / lucky enough (take your pick) to appoint possibly one of the top 3 coaches in the world they are ambitious or bold enough to do what is necessary to take the next step. Perhaps the biggest divide is with respect to what ENIC’s ambitions are. Having asked us as fans to cough up so much money are they about to move to the next phase where we really compete in terms of squad investment or are they just stringing us along while working very hard in the background to monetise their investment. As you know I am firmly in the latter camp. Thankfully we won’t have to wait long to see who is right as I think if we see the usual zero net spend this summer fewer of the BSoDL will remain patient, although I’m sure there are some who for as long as Poch works his magic and keeps us in the top 4 will buy each new excuse ad infinitum.

Where I also differ from many is in being blasé about an ENIC sale. Many seem to think this is a non-event rather than a potentially catastrophic event that will set us up to need to extract large amounts of cash each year to deliver a return to the new owner, cash that by definition won’t be available to be spent on the squad.

I do agree with the notion that once the stadium move is complete, in line with the aging/ potential loss of certain squad members, a lack of investment in the squad will be concerning. However, until last year we have signed at least one player every summer who has subsequent heavily contributed to our progression, so based on available evidence last summer is an anomaly in my opinion rather than a sign of things to come.

As for the hiring of a man who is able to successfully work within our parameters and in line with our growth plan (footballing and financial), I think it was neither genius nor luck, merely a case of sticking to the target blueprint and getting it right. Every manager appointed since Hoddle has been someone who has in some guise proven he can develop youth and improve players. Santini had at Lyon (and Jol at RKC), Ramos at Sevilla, even Harry, an appointment made in a desperate moment, at West Ham, and AVB at Porto. The thing with Pochettino which has elevated him above the rest is that he is the first to have done so in the premier league during the modern era, so he was an obvious long term appointment. The alternatives were Van Gaal and De Boer who also had such reputations. Pochettino was the culmination of a long line of appointments who, with varying degrees of success, were identified as having a certain skill set which fit a blue print devised in 2004 by Pleat and Arnesen. So, not luck, not genius, just sticking to a method until it reaped the reward (much like our late winners in our past three matches). Additionally, Pochettino has benefitted from our infrastructure as much as we have from his ability. This is why I, and many others, don’t fixate on the lack of spending, because we believe the club has devised a plan, it staying loyalty to it, and that plan is bearing fruit.

As for the consequences of any sale, you are providing a very ominous scenario but surely without knowing who is the buyer, and what are their intentions, there is no way of knowing what the outcome of a sale is as we only know of one party, the vendor.

 

[[email protected]]

Wow, Mr. John Weldon.

Never thought I would read such passive aggressive posts from someone on this forum.

Scary!

Really??!! Ah well, I'm sure you'll live! ? I'm also sure that how you perceive or interpret any posts I've made will be infinitely determined by which side of the "ENIC divide" you stand on. All I've constantly asked is for people to debate the arguments endemic in the posts and not to attack the poster. I don't think there's anything remotely aggressive about that, so if you have anything to add to the ENIC debate, please do so! Just a friendly, respectful debate on a forum: that's nothing to be scared of, is it?

 

[swarvsta]

Really??!! Ah well, I'm sure you'll live! ? I'm also sure that how you perceive or interpret any posts I've made will be infinitely determined by which side of the "ENIC divide" you stand on. All I've constantly asked is for people to debate the arguments endemic in the posts and not to attack the poster. I don't think there's anything remotely aggressive about that, so if you have anything to add to the ENIC debate, please do so! Just a friendly, respectful debate on a forum: that's nothing to be scared of, is it?

It doesn’t offend me in the slightest, I just find it quite odd.

You setup most of your arguments by sarcastically congratulating ‘your opponent’ before going on to totally contradict yourself as a way to further your argument.

You probably don’t even notice yourself doing it.

You follow a constant pattern of:

“Oh, my friend, I have always thought you to be so well reasoned and thoughtful in your arguments.......”

Followed by:

“So I will assume this is your attempt of humour/sarcasm...”

I know a person like this IRL and he is a total snake.

 

[Lilbaz]

Think new owners will be a problem. Putin had his world cup so is no longer pressuring the oligarchs to buy football clubs.
We are unlikely to get an arab buyer with our jewish links and the star of david waved at games.
That leaves us with chinese or us investors.

I don't know if new owners will be better or worse but i would like some sort of new investment. It will be years before the stadium is paid for. Can we afford a zero net spend for that long? We face the possibility of eriksen, toby and jan gone in the next 6-18 months. Poch must be thinking that a job with funds will make it easier to win things.