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Lionel Messi- The Record Breaker

ohtottenham!

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Aug 15, 2013
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You could say exactly the same about Messi :p
Enjoy them all. It's always going to be subjective. Don't know how old you are, but I remember watching Pele, Maradona and all the great players who came later. For me, Maradona was the best I've ever seen.
 

Shadydan

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Jul 7, 2012
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Enjoy them all. It's always going to be subjective. Don't know how old you are, but I remember watching Pele, Maradona and all the great players who came later. For me, Maradona was the best I've ever seen.

It's definitely a generation thing, I've only see Maradonna in clips so hold a slight bias towards Messi.
 

ohtottenham!

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Aug 15, 2013
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It's definitely a generation thing, I've only see Maradonna in clips so hold a slight bias towards Messi.
He could do anything that Messi does, and do it better...close control, dribble through a minefield of tackles, trap a ball, turn on a dime, accelerate and twist past defenders, thread crazy passes no-one would expect, lob a long range goal past a keeper from an angle I've never seen Messi even consider.

His issues away from the game shortened his career. His "Hand of God" cheating soured his legacy, but still, I've never seen anyone do what he did on the field.

If I could choose any player in their prime for Spurs next year, it'd be Maradona every time.
 
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tiger666

Large Member
Jan 4, 2005
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He could do anything that Messi does, and do it better...close control, dribble through a minefield of tackles, trap a ball, turn on a dime, accelerate and twist past defenders, thread crazy passes no-one would expect, lob a long range goal past a keeper from an angle I've never seen Messi even consider.

His issues away from the game shortened his career. His "Hand of God" cheating soured his legacy, but still, I've never seen anyone do what he did on the field.

If I could choose any player in their prime for Spurs next year it'd be Maradona every time.

He played for Spurs once
 

johnbowel

Active Member
Jan 21, 2015
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He could do anything that Messi does, and do it better...close control, dribble through a minefield of tackles, trap a ball, turn on a dime, accelerate and twist past defenders, thread crazy passes no-one would expect, lob a long range goal past a keeper from an angle I've never seen Messi even consider.

His issues away from the game shortened his career. His "Hand of God" cheating soured his legacy, but still, I've never seen anyone do what he did on the field.

If I could choose any player in their prime for Spurs next year, it'd be Maradona every time.

This isn't true. I've seen loads of both, grew up watching Maradona. Messi is faster, has a quicker change of pace and direction and possibly quicker feet. Maradona had better close control imo, more varied and inspired - not sure anyone's had his control of a football. Messi is like Maradona sharpened up and Maradona is like Messi given more elegance (as odd a thing as that is to say about that bloke!). I've also seen Messi do pretty much anything Maradona did and things Maradona couldn't in tight, zig zagging through players in impossibly tight space and impossibly high speed and making almost 180 degree turns without losing much pace or dragging the ball under his foot.

All players and styles are different and I don't think any best player ever exists. Even body shape contributes greatly - maradona and messi aren't as similar as people think, maradona had really long legs and his style reflected being this weird barrel chested little long legged bloke who was elusive but always had the ball sticking to him, galloping about whereas messi can physically move the ball quicker and accelerate more quickly with his build. Personally I find Maradona's style more appealing visually but it might be Messi's is more effective.

I do think la liga is a joke and that Ronaldo and Messi's records are completely skewed. Don't think Messi would have his record anywhere else except in great barcelona passing teams built for him to score against abysmal opposition, and Ronaldo just the most selfish player I've ever seen, shoots much much more than any other player in the world every season, and forces the richest club in the world to give him the ball all the time as though it's the Ronaldo goals per games club, to the extent of throwing his arms in the air when Bale scores instead of him.

Maradona was also capable of dragging Napoli and Argentina single handedly to trophies. Messi can't do that, doesn't have the personality and has never really excelled for Argentina - I know he has a lot of goals but he simply doesn't dominate games in the same way, he'slike the ultimate barca style player. I've only ever seen one player have the same impact and influence on a team as maradona, to the extent of dominating a league, and that was Ronaldinho in his first couple of seasons at Barca. But I remember 17 year old Messi's first couple of games, and being laughed at for telling people he was better than Ronaldinho. He wouldjust come on and scythe through 4 or 5 players almost every time he got the ball. Completely unbeatable in those days - like the perfect dribbler, and that was before all his vision, passing, finishing became evident.

Anyway - the most talented player I've ever seen is Brazilian Ronaldo but Nike plus other teams wrecked his career when he was about 22 and had won world player of the year a couple of times. He had more vision than people credit him for as well as being the most astonishing monster of a dribbler, and incredibly fast and strong. Though I've never liked his shooting :D
 

ohtottenham!

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Aug 15, 2013
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This isn't true. I've seen loads of both, grew up watching Maradona. Messi is faster, has a quicker change of pace and direction and possibly quicker feet. Maradona had better close control imo, more varied and inspired - not sure anyone's had his control of a football. Messi is like Maradona sharpened up and Maradona is like Messi given more elegance (as odd a thing as that is to say about that bloke!). I've also seen Messi do pretty much anything Maradona did and things Maradona couldn't in tight, zig zagging through players in impossibly tight space and impossibly high speed and making almost 180 degree turns without losing much pace or dragging the ball under his foot.

All players and styles are different and I don't think any best player ever exists. Even body shape contributes greatly - maradona and messi aren't as similar as people think, maradona had really long legs and his style reflected being this weird barrel chested little long legged bloke who was elusive but always had the ball sticking to him, galloping about whereas messi can physically move the ball quicker and accelerate more quickly with his build. Personally I find Maradona's style more appealing visually but it might be Messi's is more effective.

I do think la liga is a joke and that Ronaldo and Messi's records are completely skewed. Don't think Messi would have his record anywhere else except in great barcelona passing teams built for him to score against abysmal opposition, and Ronaldo just the most selfish player I've ever seen, shoots much much more than any other player in the world every season, and forces the richest club in the world to give him the ball all the time as though it's the Ronaldo goals per games club, to the extent of throwing his arms in the air when Bale scores instead of him.

Maradona was also capable of dragging Napoli and Argentina single handedly to trophies. Messi can't do that, doesn't have the personality and has never really excelled for Argentina - I know he has a lot of goals but he simply doesn't dominate games in the same way, he'slike the ultimate barca style player. I've only ever seen one player have the same impact and influence on a team as maradona, to the extent of dominating a league, and that was Ronaldinho in his first couple of seasons at Barca. But I remember 17 year old Messi's first couple of games, and being laughed at for telling people he was better than Ronaldinho. He wouldjust come on and scythe through 4 or 5 players almost every time he got the ball. Completely unbeatable in those days - like the perfect dribbler, and that was before all his vision, passing, finishing became evident.

Anyway - the most talented player I've ever seen is Brazilian Ronaldo but Nike plus other teams wrecked his career when he was about 22 and had won world player of the year a couple of times. He had more vision than people credit him for as well as being the most astonishing monster of a dribbler, and incredibly fast and strong. Though I've never liked his shooting :D
This isn't true either! There is no true! It's all subjective. Brazilian Ronaldo more talented than Maradona....??? Alrighty then! You said you grew up watching Maradona, yet your age in your profile says you're 36. Don't know how much you remember when he was in his prime.
 
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johnbowel

Active Member
Jan 21, 2015
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This isn't true either! There is no true! It's all subjective. Brazilian Ronaldo more talented than Maradona....??? Alrighty then!

That it's all subjective, including my (and many others') opinion on Brazilian Ronaldo, was what I was saying, opposed to Maradona being 'able to do everything Messi can but better', which is obviously untrue.

Enjoy the players, is right. I've seen Zidane beat four or five players without touching the ball, which is for me a far more beautiful thing than any number of tricks players feel the need to force games with now, or the effectiveness of Messi, but taste is just taste, and players are good at different things.
 

ohtottenham!

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That it's all subjective, including my (and many others') opinion on Brazilian Ronaldo, was what I was saying, opposed to Maradona being 'able to do everything Messi can but better', which is obviously untrue.

Enjoy the players, is right. I've seen Zidane beat four or five players without touching the ball, which is for me a far more beautiful thing than any number of tricks players feel the need to force games with now, or the effectiveness of Messi, but taste is just taste, and players are good at different things.
So, my opinions are untrue, but yours are subjective? LOL! How old were you when you said you grew up watching Maradona?
 

DEFchenkOE

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Feb 13, 2006
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Maradona shit on them all. The leg breaking tackles he had to ride in those days. Unreal stuff.



I've seen lots of clips of Maradona before, but this vid is great, some of those tackles that went in are brutal.

Talking about the best ever is difficult. It's hard to argue with Messi's goal tally, and you can't really say La Liga is weak as they often have teams in the europa league finals as well. And also Messi is at the top of the CL scoring charts along with Ronaldo.

Having said all that, Messi being a one club man, playing in a great team his whole career, that makes things much easier for him to dominate. Really would love to see him in the EPL for a season or two.

I have no idea what Maradona's goal record is like but I'm guessing it's nowhere near Messi's, but still Maradona has something that makes him standout to be the better player. Not sure if it's his dribbling style or the fact that he won a world cup or that he proved himself in various different leagues. Or maybe it's his charisma whereas Messi seems quite quiet and boring.

My memories of watching Maradona are pretty much limited to the 94 world cup where he was way past his best.

My favourite players to watch are R9onaldo and Ronaldinho, could watch those two at their peak all day when I was growing up.
 

THFCSPURS19

The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
Jan 6, 2013
37,901
130,571
He could do anything that Messi does, and do it better...close control, dribble through a minefield of tackles, trap a ball, turn on a dime, accelerate and twist past defenders, thread crazy passes no-one would expect, lob a long range goal past a keeper from an angle I've never seen Messi even consider.

His issues away from the game shortened his career. His "Hand of God" cheating soured his legacy, but still, I've never seen anyone do what he did on the field.

If I could choose any player in their prime for Spurs next year, it'd be Maradona every time.
I have no idea who's better, but I've seen Messi do all the things you've listed.
 

ohtottenham!

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Aug 15, 2013
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I have no idea who's better, but I've seen Messi do all the things you've listed.
I’ve seen Messi do those things too. I just think Maradona was a step up above. I also think both players are better than anyone else I’ve ever seen play the game. Could watch them both all day!
 

Spurger King

can't smile without glue
Jul 22, 2008
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I’ve seen Messi do those things too. I just think Maradona was a step up above. I also think both players are better than anyone else I’ve ever seen play the game. Could watch them both all day!

Something that has always interested me when it comes to these debates is the level of exposure available back in the 80s and before.

I understand that if fans are seeing players like Greaves or Hoddle week in and week out they will have a strong knowledge of their general abilities, but how much did anyone really see of the likes of Pele and Maradona?

With Pele I'd imagine it was limited to a few appearances in the World Cups. I guess with Maradona he might have featured in a few televised European club tournaments, but beyond that it's again limited to his World Cup performances.

Looking at Maradona's record, he scored twice in his first World Cup, and got sent off. Obviously the 1986 World Cup was when he really made his name, with 5 goals, 5 assists, and captaining them to the trophy. Sadly I didn't get into football until 1990, and Maradona didn't really do much in that tournament. 1994 was just a train wreck, with one great goal followed by a drugs ban.

Certainly not questioning his ability. I've watched numerous videos of Maradona's skills and goals, and he was clearly an unbelievably good player. I'm just curious to know how people can be so adamant that he was the undisputed 'greatest' when I doubt many people would have ever watched more than a handful of his games outside of Spain and Italy.
 

johnbowel

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Jan 21, 2015
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So, my opinions are untrue, but yours are subjective? LOL! How old were you when you said you grew up watching Maradona?

I never said that, now did I. I simply gave my opinions on players whereas you made the ridiculous statement that Maradona can do everything Messi can but better. Messi is faster than Maradona, for a start, and they are different players in quite a few ways. I actually said that I prefer Maradona, although I think Messi is more effective. Stop being so butthurt, just because you got called out. Alternately, type more things with caps lock.
 

ohtottenham!

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Aug 15, 2013
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I never said that, now did I. I simply gave my opinions on players whereas you made the ridiculous statement that Maradona can do everything Messi can but better. Messi is faster than Maradona, for a start, and they are different players in quite a few ways. I actually said that I prefer Maradona, although I think Messi is more effective. Stop being so butthurt, just because you got called out. Alternately, type more things with caps lock.

I’m just lol’ing, small caps to keep you happy, at the irony of being accused of being “butthurt” by someone called johnbowel. Don’t take it too seriously, mate. I don’t. I was too sweeping in that initial statement re Maradona over Messi. I don’t mind being called out on it. Two great players; the best ever, in my opinion. I just preferred one over the other.
 

Spurger King

can't smile without glue
Jul 22, 2008
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I’m just lol’ing, small caps to keep you happy, at the irony of being accused of being “butthurt” by someone called johnbowel. Don’t take it too seriously, mate. I don’t. I was too sweeping in that initial statement re Maradona over Messi. I don’t mind being called out on it. Two great players; the best ever, in my opinion. I just preferred one over the other.

But how much did you ever see of him?!
 

ohtottenham!

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Aug 15, 2013
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I read your post and you make a fair point. We never had the chance to see the likes of Maradona or Pele in the way we get to see Messi’s every game. I think Shady had it right with it’s a generational thing re preferences for best ever player. Plenty of my generation and older have Pele as the best.

First time I saw him was in an England Arg friendly around 1980. For me, at the time of watching clips of Maradona pre-86 World Cup and in that tournament itself, it was mind-blowing! I’d never seen anything like it, and haven’t since, apart from Messi.
 

johnbowel

Active Member
Jan 21, 2015
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I’m just lol’ing, small caps to keep you happy, at the irony of being accused of being “butthurt” by someone called johnbowel. Don’t take it too seriously, mate. I don’t. I was too sweeping in that initial statement re Maradona over Messi. I don’t mind being called out on it. Two great players; the best ever, in my opinion. I just preferred one over the other.

Well, we're even on being called out now, re bowelhurt and I prob deserve it for going a bit forum-y. :)

One thing I find incredible is all the casual keep ups and tricks with tiny/huge objects you see Maradona doing. It reminds me of Bradman practicing with a stump and golf ball, for any cricket fans.
 
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