Lionel Messi- The Record Breaker

[nailsy]

Definitely an "in the moment" decision to retire, and I think he'll turn around on it.
The only possibility, discussed at work this morning, is that he's also done to make it slightly more favourable to get a transfer to the PL. If he doesn't have to disappear off to a compete in these kind of competitions midweek, it makes him available to play in the Capital One cup away at Chesterfield etc.

Mascherano and Aguero have announced their retirements as well.

Argentinian papers are saying Aguero, Javier Mascherano, Gonzalo Higuain, Angel di Maria, Lucas Biglia, Ezequiel Lavezzi and Ever Banega could all retire as well. Time to sort out a friendly against them!

 

[Gassin's finest]

Just sounds like latin passion talking, he'll be at the next world cup.

 

[werty]

Really disappointed in him if he does retire. He still has two World Cups left in him.

 

[ohtottenham!]

I think there's a lot more to this than Messi's disappointment with being unable to lift a trophy for his country. Watched the game in the States and the Argentinian co-anchor was saying that there are serious problems with the Argentinian Football Association (AFA); high-level corruption and a real danger of Argentina being banned from the 2018 World Cup.

Seems the players have been very dissatisfied with their own federation for a long time. Multiple players threatening to walk out on their national team, in a country with Argentina's proud and passionate footballing history? I think there's more to this.

Found these links below; there's probably much more info out there.

http://www.firstpost.com/sports/mas...wn-2857992.html?utm_source=FP_CAT_LATEST_NEWS

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/art...di-maria-and-others-all-reportedly-set-retire

 

[npearl4spurs]

Messi the record breaker? More like the broken record of losing when it matters most

 

[nailsy]

Messi the record breaker? More like the broken record of losing when it matters most

Honours and achievements
Club

• La Liga: 2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11, 2012–13, 2014–15, 2015–16
• Copa del Rey: 2008–09, 2011–12, 2014–15, 2015–16
• Supercopa de España: 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013
• UEFA Champions League: 2005–06, 2008–09, 2010–11, 2014–15
• UEFA Super Cup: 2009, 2011, 2015
• FIFA Club World Cup: 2009, 2011, 2015

 

[npearl4spurs]

Honours and achievements
Club

• La Liga: 2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11, 2012–13, 2014–15, 2015–16
• Copa del Rey: 2008–09, 2011–12, 2014–15, 2015–16
• Supercopa de España: 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013
• UEFA Champions League: 2005–06, 2008–09, 2010–11, 2014–15
• UEFA Super Cup: 2009, 2011, 2015
• FIFA Club World Cup: 2009, 2011, 2015

Maybe I should have used sarcasm font

Or made a better joke

 

[ohtottenham!]

I'm not sure either way but I think Maradona's main attribute, over Messi, is a personality thing, more daring and flamboyant and determined. You can see it in the way he runs, a bit like Gascoigne, his chest is puffed out and they both look almost comically like the top halves of their body are trying to keep pace with their legs - aside from skill and technique neither of them would give up on the ball, they push themselves absolutely to make it, to get a nick and swerve past a defender who looks favourite for it (Gazza often scything them down... ending up breaking his leg or getting booked in big england games ). It's almost like watching someone runnig down a mountain side, careering almost out of control and each time you think they're going to catch on something managing to avoid it through complete commitment. I don't think Messi has that exuberant almost possessed type of character. Of course, it didn't exactly work out well in those two players personal lives.

The part I think Messi does better than anyone I've seen play is making acute zig zagging runs in ridiculously tight spaces, darting about like a flea as pep called him. There are those crazy runs in and around the box he used to go on beating 5 or 6 players like a playstation footballer, as someone else called him.

I know I asked for your opinion, but the more I think about it, I don't think it's fair in a way. Think you were too young to evaluate Maradona, just like I was with Pele. I was 10 when Pele won the ’70 World Cup; thought he was great, but I was still too young to make any judgment.

I’ve actually learned that from this thread. Think you have to be in your teens at least when you’re watching a player in his prime to appreciate what he’s doing at the time he’s doing it. Just like I think younger folks will never really appreciate how good Hoddle was – they’ll see the youtube clips, but won’t understand the level of the game at the time and how talented Hoddle was in that context.

You play the game, to whatever level you do, you watch the game, both live and on TV, and you naturally get the sense of the state of the game in your time. I was in my early twenties when I first saw Maradona. And, for me, he totally redefined the game I knew.

The gulf between him and any of his peers, would have been Zico and Platini mainly, was huge! Never saw anything like it, Cruyff was the closest from my memory and I was in my teens when I saw him; and yet when Maradona came along, you were watching a whole other dimension.

You had to be around in the 80’s and watching games to know that skillful players couldn’t keep the ball too close to them for any extended time, like players can do now, otherwise they’d have been hacked and hoiked into the air. That’s how games were, day in day out. A totally different game to what we see now.

Messi and Maradona comparisons? Two great players, best I’ve seen. The game was more than a step slower 30 years ago than it is now. In absolute terms, like pure speed perhaps, Messi may beat Maradona, but weighted for their respective eras it’s a wash.

Skill on the ball in absolute terms, maybe a wash, but in relative terms playing 30 years apart, I’d give it to Maradona; he couldn’t keep the ball too close when he played or he’d be kicked, and often when he was kicked, he’d still manage to waltz past multiple hacking defenders! A Maradona playing now would have far more freedom to express himself. I’ve never seen anyone improvise and do things off the fly like he did, Messi included. It would be a joy to watch him do that in today’s game without the fear of someone breaking his legs.

Agree with your point about the Maradona personality attribute; think that’s about absolute belief in his own ability. He was an inspirational leader in the way he drove himself and invigorated the players around him.

 

[johnbowel]

I know I asked for your opinion, but the more I think about it, I don't think it's fair in a way. Think you were too young to evaluate Maradona, just like I was with Pele. I was 10 when Pele won the ’70 World Cup; thought he was great, but I was still too young to make any judgment.

I’ve actually learned that from this thread. Think you have to be in your teens at least when you’re watching a player in his prime to appreciate what he’s doing at the time he’s doing it. Just like I think younger folks will never really appreciate how good Hoddle was – they’ll see the youtube clips, but won’t understand the level of the game at the time and how talented Hoddle was in that context.

You play the game, to whatever level you do, you watch the game, both live and on TV, and you naturally get the sense of the state of the game in your time. I was in my early twenties when I first saw Maradona. And, for me, he totally redefined the game I knew.

The gulf between him and any of his peers, would have been Zico and Platini mainly, was huge! Never saw anything like it, Cruyff was the closest from my memory and I was in my teens when I saw him; and yet when Maradona came along, you were watching a whole other dimension.

You had to be around in the 80’s and watching games to know that skillful players couldn’t keep the ball too close to them for any extended time, like players can do now, otherwise they’d have been hacked and hoiked into the air. That’s how games were, day in day out. A totally different game to what we see now.

Messi and Maradona comparisons? Two great players, best I’ve seen. The game was more than a step slower 30 years ago than it is now. In absolute terms, like pure speed perhaps, Messi may beat Maradona, but weighted for their respective eras it’s a wash.

Skill on the ball in absolute terms, maybe a wash, but in relative terms playing 30 years apart, I’d give it to Maradona; he couldn’t keep the ball too close when he played or he’d be kicked, and often when he was kicked, he’d still manage to waltz past multiple hacking defenders! A Maradona playing now would have far more freedom to express himself. I’ve never seen anyone improvise and do things off the fly like he did, Messi included. It would be a joy to watch him do that in today’s game without the fear of someone breaking his legs.

Agree with your point about the Maradona personality attribute; think that’s about absolute belief in his own ability. He was an inspirational leader in the way he drove himself and invigorated the players around him.

Possibly true. I'm actually not as huge a Messi fan as some, although may have come across like it - I dunno, I'm changeable . I think that most players age badly and lose the irreverence that made them so exciting when they came through. I have seen huge amounts of Maradona and the gap between him and Platini/Zico... I mean Platini wasn't as good as Zidane and the gap between Zidane and Messi in my opinion is absolutely vast. But it's hard to compare those types of players, in fact, I just don't think you can. Zidane at times is my favourite player ever to watch, possibly alongside Hoddle. Theyre both incredibly elegant and everything they do is beautiful to watch, just taking a ball from the air or controlling a pass. I find them much much better to watch than Messi and Maradona also (and I prefer to watch maradona than messi for the most part). There are just different things in different players games... I saw Zidane beat 5 players (I think) without touching the ball. It was fucking ridiculous and probably one of the best things I've ever seen in a game, just body movement and little feints and drops of the shoulder. Maradona/Messi/anyone really couldn't do that.. I've seen similar from both (maradona particularly) but not like that, not because they're not as good but because it's not who they are, they have other strengths, Zidane can't come close to matching. I think the 'best player ever' thing is a load of shite really. Zidane had zero pace or acceleration and so his nature/body found different ways to beat people, bit like blind people with extraordinary hearing.

But they're not as effective - I remember watching a load of Hoddle games and being transfixed... then watching Cruyff and thinking.. oh. This is what happens when a genius is also really fast. It's annoying The same thing happened when I'd been convined by everyone re Zidane.. then Ronaldinho had those couple of truly incredible seasons at Barca and made zidane look average. I still think Ronaldinho at Barca + Maradona at Napoli are the two most transcendent period of football by any footballers I've ever seen. Brazilian Ronaldo had some similar runs too.

I feel like Zidane/Hoddle style of player is the opposite to Cristiano Ronaldo - they make all the simple things beautiful, and he somehow makes the beautiful things ugly. Everything he does is rehearsed and forced and kind of upright and jerky and unnatural. His dribbling is horrrrible to watch. Some players sort of move because the situation in the game means they have to, in order to keep the ball, they go with the game - he is the opposite, everything he does is jarring and is about elevating and asserting himself. He's incredibly effective of course but I think that's why football fans know he lacks any of those qualities that truly brilliant/genius/whatever you want to call it have. He's a bit like the epitome of why the US doesn't get football in general, there's something subtle but huge completely absent in his game.

On a separate subject. Something I will never understand about opinion outside the uk when watching footballers is how amazed they all are, pep included, at a panna - it's just a fucking nutmeg. It's like.. the lowest form of beating a player that the crap player at the park does every now and then. I HATE it when Messi does them, for me it's like realising he didn't really beat a player with skill just a cheap trick - same with elasticos, in a different way. Make me roll my eyes.

Meant to say - in terms of contentious opinions, I think Hoddle is as good as Zidane. Everyone throw things at me.

I was around in the 80s btw. Watch reruns of Alf and Airwolf to catch me. Just a bit little.

 

[ohtottenham!]

Meant to say - in terms of contentious opinions, I think Hoddle is as good as Zidane. Everyone throw things at me.

I was around in the 80s btw. Watch reruns of Alf and Airwolf to catch me. Just a bit little.

Not sure about the Hoddle/Zidane thing, but a Tottenham board, so think you're safe.

You were a child actor/extra? Or am I missing something?

 

[Ribble]

I feel like Zidane/Hoddle style of player is the opposite to Cristiano Ronaldo - they make all the simple things beautiful, and he somehow makes the beautiful things ugly. Everything he does is rehearsed and forced and kind of upright and jerky and unnatural. His dribbling is horrrrible to watch. Some players sort of move because the situation in the game means they have to, in order to keep the ball, they go with the game - he is the opposite, everything he does is jarring and is about elevating and asserting himself. He's incredibly effective of course but I think that's why football fans know he lacks any of those qualities that truly brilliant/genius/whatever you want to call it have. He's a bit like the epitome of why the US doesn't get football in general, there's something subtle but huge completely absent in his game.

I think this is a symptom of him being a top athlete/sportsman, rather than "just" naturally gifted at football. He's got the kind of dedication and physical ability to have been a great at pretty much anything he turned his hand to, he just ended up kicking a ball around for a shit-ton of money rather than running around carrying one or hitting one with a racquet.

 

[johnbowel]

I think this is a symptom of him being a top athlete/sportsman, rather than "just" naturally gifted at football. He's got the kind of dedication and physical ability to have been a great at pretty much anything he turned his hand to, he just ended up kicking a ball around for a shit-ton of money rather than running around carrying one or hitting one with a racquet.

I don't think he is particularly gifted, I think it's almost entirely athleticism and work ethic - and that he put in the work on dribbling rather than other aspects of the game due to his 'personality'. He copied Quaresma's tricks at the start of his career. He also doesn't see the game at all or have Bale's more expansive passing. He learnt to cross but in the Euros I really saw what a sham of a player he's become. Every time he gets the ball, he's thinking about how he can most quickly get it back in the box: he genuinely thinks the point of football/his team is getting him to score. He always looks up, plays it, then charges into the box waving his arms and all his teammates look as terrified of upsetting or not passing to him as I imagine a jewish girl applying as Shirley Bassey's maid.

Zidane etc didn't really use tricks. That's what I prefer and think of as gifted. Except that lumbering 'roulette'. Ronaldinho was a weird player because I hate his style, the telegraphed no look passes, pointless stepovers etc but then he was also extremely naturally gifted.

Not sure about the Hoddle/Zidane thing, but a Tottenham board, so think you're safe.

You were a child actor/extra? Or am I missing something?

Nah was just being retarded. Although Will Miller was in Oliver - unrelated fact.

 

[WalkerboyUK]

Just been sentenced to 21 months in prison for tax evasion...

Except minimum term in Spain to actually GO to prison is 2 years, so he isn't going to jail at all...

 

[CosmicHotspur]

He got off lightly.

 

[tototoner]

He got off lightly.

i'd say he was stitched up

Oct 2015 from http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...up-old-rivalries-and-suspicious-intrigue.html

" In Messi’s case, the Spanish prosecution service dropped the charges against the player and announced it would pursue just his father, Jorge, for his role, only for the state attorney to reverse that decision a few days later and insist both men stand trial for tax evasion.

It would be mischievous to point out that the official responsible for that decision, Marta Silva de Lapuerta, is the daughter of a former minister of public works under Franco and is herself a former Real Madrid board member "

 

[WorcesterTHFC]

Just been sentenced to 21 months in prison for tax evasion...

Except minimum term in Spain to actually GO to prison is 2 years, so he isn't going to jail at all...

Providing it's your first offence and it's a non-violent crime, so Messi and his father (also called Messi) will serve their time on probation.

 

[Lilbaz]

i'd say he was stitched up, weren't the prosecutors all close to Real Madrid

He was used as an example to get spanish people to pay their tax.

 

[HildoSpur]

Sad to see how things have panned out for Messi over past year or two - I'm sure this court case has been in the back of his mind and who knows maybe has had an influence on his recent decision to quit Argentina (hoping he comes back).

 

[werty]

Can he still play while on probation?

 

[WorcesterTHFC]

He was used as an example to get spanish people to pay their tax.

Why don't the Spanish Inquisition pay them a visit? You'd be amazed how many people cooperate when they're faced with fear, surprise and a fanatical devotion to the Pope.