Match Threads Liverpool vs Spurs - Match Thread - Day 13

[rez9000]

Loving the WTF ratings! Confirms my view because no-one seems able to actually present a cogent counter-argument....

Just putting it out there if anyone wants to pick up that particular gauntlet....

Lol! I especially like the childish ones! It's amusing when people who don't have the wit to formulate an actual argument resort to pressing buttons. It's like watching my eight year old nephew at play. So much fun.

Go on @mumfordspur - you know you want to.

 

[rez9000]

Lol! I especially like the childish ones! It's amusing when people who don't have the wit to formulate an actual argument resort to pressing buttons. It's like watching my eight year old nephew at play. So much fun.

 

[Escher]

Out of 23 games. That equates to less than 18% of our games this season. Plus which the fact of it being a penalty is actually a pretty significant factor.

Systemic problem?

EDIT: Those who don't give a 'fuck' if they were penalties or not are often the ones who have an agenda.

What the fuck are you going on about, we gave up good results to Newcastle and West Ham (at home too) by conceding around 90th minute - not exactly the strongest clubs in the Premier League. Only third of the season played and we have this shit mentality end of games.

 

[rez9000]

What the fuck are you going on about, we gave up good results to Newcastle and West Ham (at home too) by conceding around 90th minute - not exactly the strongest clubs in the Premier League. Only third of the season played and we have this shit mentality end of games.

Based on four out of 23 games? Again, that's 18% of our matches.

I sincerely apologise if any of the things I'm saying are too difficult to grasp, but I really can't put it any more simply than I have.

EDIT: Go ahead - WTF this post too. It's very funny.

 

[bsinghd]

Agreed. Probably won't happen in January but we would benefit from having another combative CM that can rotate with Sissoko/Hojbjerg. Winks just isn't suited for that role.

I think Mourinho feels he has to play two solid players like PEH and Sissoko directly in front of the defence because we don’t have enough pace or mobility with our first choice centre backs.

Neither one of Toby or Dier has much pace, they’re more comfortable staying central and not having to move around the back line too much. If Toby or Dier had better mobility/quickness I think we’d see PEH (or Sissoko for lesser games) start with two other ball playing or creative midfielders

I watched a short piece on YouTube about Mourinho at Inter and how he prioritised getting new centre backs in who had a bit of pace, could use the ball well but were also solid and physical - he ended up with Lucio and Walter Samuel. At Real Madrid he pushed aside Pepe and brought in Varane alongside Ramos, both relatively quick but also physically dominating.

It doesn’t mean Mourinho played free flowing football, but his teams could dominate matches and keep the ball for sustained periods because his midfield weren’t constantly sitting deep.

It’s nice to hear pundits say we are contenders in the title race, but our defensive options (or limitations perhaps) would suggest otherwise. Finishing in the top 3 would be a good achievement, adding a trophy would make it outstanding.

 

[sebo_sek]

What the fuck are you going on about, we gave up good results to Newcastle and West Ham (at home too) by conceding around 90th minute - not exactly the strongest clubs in the Premier League. Only third of the season played and we have this shit mentality end of games.

Wasn't Newcastle due to one of the worst penalty calls ever?

 

[Serpico]

Friday and still sore about he result. Now anger has kicked in-reflecting on how they mugged us off with that dodgy manoeuvre to create space for the header. Liverpool's mayor and cronies have been arrested recently and investigated for fraud and now witness intimidation. The football club/supporters reflects Liverpool. I hope the players feel the same and take it out on LC and drive forward the rest of the season with some attitude otherwise its good night Vienna.

 

[ajspurs]

Throughout this day, my good mood has been interrupted when I remember "Bobby" the wanker scoring in the 90th minute. It's a shame we couldn't hold out, a 1-1 result would have been fantastic. On the other hand, Liverpool is by quite some margin the best team in the league, and that's even without their best CB's and best midfielders. It's not a shame to lose against them at their home ground.

I said after the Crystal Palace match that Mourinho has to tinker the setup a bit. I guess Liverpool isn't the match to do that, but regardless we've now had two matches in a row where our defensive approach has resulted in us falling deeper, and deeper, and deeper and eventually we concede a goal from a setpiece. This is an obvious tactical flaw in my mind. For large parts against Liverpool, we hardly strung two passes together. It doesn't matter who you play if you basically through away the possession and let them go at you.

I've felt that we've been much more aggressive in and around our own box earlier this season. But last night it looked like we just couldn't cope with Liverpool's press play down the flanks, which is natural, but also through the middle. Considering the amounts of matches Højbjerg and Sissoko play I wouldn't hold it against them if it's taking a toll. But this really is a key feature if we're going to succeed or not in these tough matches.

Atletico Madrid are notoriously defensive but they are aggressive as hell in certain key areas of the pitch. That's what we have to aim for.
If you lack that aggression and willingness to push back, you're just going to end up being choked against your own penalty box all match.

This is the one main thing that has to improve. I'm actually content with sitting back as much as we do, but we have to be much tidier with the ball when we get it back or be set up in a way that provides players with better options when they do have it.

I'm not sure what needs to change to achieve this to be honest and I don't think it's as simple as just swapping Sissoko with someone who can pass better. Unless stats prove otherwise it looked like Sissoko protected the ball better than most on the night and other players have certainly been guilty of being overly-sloppy with the ball.

 

[NEVILLEB]

It’s been a few days but still think it was a disappointing approach by the team. When you lose without really ever having a go it can be demoralising and also makes the players feel inferior to the opposition (which they were but not to that level).

If we win Mourinho looks clever but having lost he’s ended up looking a bit backward.

Still, an amazing season so far.

 

[Shadydan]

It’s been a few days but still think it was a disappointing approach by the team. When you lose without really ever having a go it can be demoralising and also makes the players feel inferior to the opposition (which they were but not to that level).

If we win Mourinho looks clever but having lost he’s ended up looking a bit backward.

Still, an amazing season so far.

That's the trade off with the pragmatic style, when it comes off which it so nearly did it looks genius hence why people call is a Mourinho masterclass, when you lose it looks small time and looks like you didn't have a go, in reality though we did have the best chances and he can't be blamed for inability of our players to not finish off a match.

 

[rez9000]

Friday and still sore about he result. Now anger has kicked in-reflecting on how they mugged us off with that dodgy manoeuvre to create space for the header. Liverpool's mayor and cronies have been arrested recently and investigated for fraud and now witness intimidation. The football club/supporters reflects Liverpool. I hope the players feel the same and take it out on LC and drive forward the rest of the season with some attitude otherwise its good night Vienna.

I'm not worried. I think we'll see a response, because after Palace we saw one, at Anfield. Even though we lost, we didn't lose because we played badly. Quite the reverse. I'm with Jose on this one - the better team lost.

The way we played against Liverpool was the result of the poor result against Palace. React the same way against Leicester and we'll have no performance problems.

 

[rez9000]

This is the one main thing that has to improve. I'm actually content with sitting back as much as we do, but we have to be much tidier with the ball when we get it back or be set up in a way that provides players with better options when they do have it.

I'm not sure what needs to change to achieve this to be honest and I don't think it's as simple as just swapping Sissoko with someone who can pass better. Unless stats prove otherwise it looked like Sissoko protected the ball better than most on the night and other players have certainly been guilty of being overly-sloppy with the ball.

I think it's a question of time and coaching, aj. Liverpool is an excellent example, in fact. The reason they're so formidable is not just down to the talent in their squad, it's also due to the almost telepathic understanding their players have with each other. Much like Sonny and Harry have. How did that come about (in both instances)? By playing and training together so much that they know what each other is likely to do in any given moment. Harry and Sonny have been together now for five (?) years. That's why they know each other's game inside-out. The same goes for Liverpool's squad.

What we see as sloppy passing will have a large element on unfamiliarity with the player being passed to. Over time, that is learnt and then it's basically muscle memory and we'll see much more accurate passing. Sadly, no matter how good the individual players, that requires time.

 

[NEVILLEB]

That's the trade off with the pragmatic style, when it comes off which it so nearly did it looks genius hence why people call is a Mourinho masterclass, when you lose it looks small time and looks like you didn't have a go, in reality though we did have the best chances and he can't be blamed for inability of our players to not finish off a match.

I agree that if the chances had been taken we would have been praising Mourinho’s tactics. I just wish we could have kept the ball better but without Ndombele we looked a bit two dimensional. Salah was a class above on the night and Liverpool showed their superiority but I think the clubs aren’t as far away as it seemed watching that match.

 

[ajspurs]

I think it's a question of time and coaching, aj. Liverpool is an excellent example, in fact. The reason they're so formidable is not just down to the talent in their squad, it's also due to the almost telepathic understanding their players have with each other. Much like Sonny and Harry have. How did that come about (in both instances)? By playing and training together so much that they know what each other is likely to do in any given moment. Harry and Sonny have been together now for five (?) years. That's why they know each other's game inside-out. The same goes for Liverpool's squad.

What we see as sloppy passing will have a large element on unfamiliarity with the player being passed to. Over time, that is learnt and then it's basically muscle memory and we'll see much more accurate passing. Sadly, no matter how good the individual players, that requires time.

Yeah I think you're right there mate. Have to remind myself sometimes that Jose is also playing in a way in which he believes he can get the best out of what we have. When you consider that and consider how badly we'd been playing and how bad the results were for a period of time before Jose came in, the fact that we'd been sitting top for a while before Wednesday night is quite remarkable.

As you say hopefully with time (and a couple of additions) we will see ourselves become a lot more efficient with the ball. And we are indeed still early in our team development under Mourinho.

 

[NEVILLEB]

Yeah I think you're right there mate. Have to remind myself sometimes that Jose is also playing in a way in which he believes he can get the best out of what we have. When you consider that and consider how badly we'd been playing and how bad the results were for a period of time before Jose came in, the fact that we'd been sitting top for a while before Wednesday night is quite remarkable.

As you say hopefully with time (and a couple of additions) we will see ourselves become a lot more efficient with the ball. And we are indeed still early in our team development under Mourinho.

Some of the players they’ve added over the summer have been the missing cogs in the wheel. Hojbjerg in particular has given us that stability in midfield and makes the whole team work. Take him out and I think the team goes back to where it was last season.

 

[Serpico]

I'm not worried. I think we'll see a response, because after Palace we saw one, at Anfield. Even though we lost, we didn't lose because we played badly. Quite the reverse. I'm with Jose on this one - the better team lost.

The way we played against Liverpool was the result of the poor result against Palace. React the same way against Leicester and we'll have no performance problems.

LC lost at home so Rodgers will want a response from his team. They will regroup and play not to lose. The game should be us tapping a way at them and hopefully scoring first otherwise I feel they will frustrate us if they go ahead.

 

[SirNiNyHotspur]

Ref watch on skysports shameless discussing if Son offside and Dier handball, nothing at all about Liverpool orchestrated cheat to assist on their goal. Liverpool really are disgusting team, we knew what fo expect right from the off with Robertson winning a goal kick when it was clearly off him, Klopp has them playing as a pile of despicable ****s.

 

[rez9000]

LC lost at home so Rodgers will want a response from his team. They will regroup and play not to lose. The game should be us tapping a way at them and hopefully scoring first otherwise I feel they will frustrate us if they go ahead.

Definitely the case. This one is going to be interesting because Rodgers is a Mourinho protégé.

I might be completely wrong in my analysis, so happy to be corrected, but their major weapons are their pace and the speed at which they transition. Vardy's eye for goal is a threat too, but it's linked to that speed. If he has to work his way into scoring positions, he becomes less effective.

And turning the ball over quickly works best against higher, looser defences. Playing deep and tight, and pushing them out to the wings where they have to work the ball into the box I think would reduce their effectiveness.

There is a possibility that with their mini-dip in form recently, Rodgers may be a little more desperate to get a result and so could choose to be more adventurous. But if he decides to be protective, then I can see another Chelsea-esque game - probing and prodding without either side overcommitting.

It's going to be interesting.

 

[Nerine]

Do we often forget that the other team is actively trying to get the ball in our net? Some teams are good at doing that.
It’s not necessarily a failing of ours in these situations. There are two teams playing.
It’s so unbelievably fickle. We still have to play the dippers at home. This result could net off as a stalemate. Then we’re even again.
Yes. It’s frustrating to lose in that manner; I hate it, but fucking hell, that result did not define our season. Far from it. There’s still another 75 points to play for. Liverpool aren’t going to not lose another game. They look less convincing this season. If we beat Leicester then I’ll still think we have as good a chance as anyone. If we lose though, it starts to get more difficult, such are the fine margins at the business end of the season.
I realise that this is a slightly contradictory post, but we don’t define ourselves. Teams are trying to beat us. Some will manage it. Some will manage to beat Liverpool too. Yes, we need to be on it as much as possible, but for fucks sake the sheer amount of shitty comments and whinging is ridiculous. If it was the last game of the season, yes! Be disappointed! But it’s not. We take care of them at WHL and we’re good. Jose will hopefully have us up a level or two by then as I think he is still tinkering with the tactics at this point. We’re also still in the EL. Winning that would be a pretty good return also and I wouldn’t turn my nose up at it.

 

[DenverSpur]

Agree. I think it's a much bigger worry how/where the late concessions are conceded from, a large percentage of the goals we've conceded are from moves that start with set pieces on our right side and identifying why this happens and stopping it from happening is much more important than the timing of the concessions.

Agree with that.
Both Aurier and Sissoko have a habit of giving soft free kicks away in these areas because they get to tight to the opposition player giving them the excuse to go down which refs always fall for. Refs are also very lax at allowing teams take free kicks for fouls that occurred right on the sideline yards in from their - see the free kick that led to the Everton goal.