London's most successful team

[DC_Boy]

Cup wins can be a bit flukey but our win this season wasn't a fluke at all - it was well merited on the back of three magnificent performances

Everton famously got into the top 4 a few seasons back - what good did it do them?

I've no doubt that winning the lge Cup is better than 5th place -

4th I'm unsure of - but this season I'd have rather won the Cup - because I didn't want a barren decade to spoil our magnificent run of now six straight decades of success

next season - 4th or lge cup, I'd take the 4th spot - but 4th or FA/UEFA Cup - I'd take the Cup plus anywhere in the top 10

 

[TheChosenOne]

Arsenal can go back to winning ways if ....

1) Players are not allowed to be sent off in important matches like CL finals because
it ruins the game for the fans.

2) When two Arsenal players collide on a pitch while opponents are attacking the Arsenal goal, the game must be stopped and an immediate drop-ball should be given

3) No showboating should be allowed, it annoys and embarrasses the Arsenal team and also now the Roma team as well.

4) Goals should be awarded for possession - not actual goals.

This should help.

 

[Kendall]

Cup wins can be a bit flukey but our win this season wasn't a fluke at all - it was well merited on the back of three magnificent performances

Everton famously got into the top 4 a few seasons back - what good did it do them?

I've no doubt that winning the lge Cup is better than 5th place -

4th I'm unsure of - but this season I'd have rather won the Cup - because I didn't want a barren decade to spoil our magnificent run of now six straight decades of success

next season - 4th or lge cup, I'd take the 4th spot - but 4th or FA/UEFA Cup - I'd take the Cup plus anywhere in the top 10

They didn't have the money or backing to capitalise on it.

If we had gotten CL last year I think it would've made all the difference to the calibre of player we'd have been able to attract. It will be very interesting to see who we can attract in the summer.

Winning the league cup is better than 5th place I suppose, if it's a straight swap, same reward but more glory etc..

But if you were to ask Arsenal if winning the league cup, and finishing 5th was a good season, they'd tell you to fuck off. I'm not saying we should have the same expectations as Arsenal, because they are clearly established, but the league cup only gives you so much, in general it's 1 glorious day, the CL spots are vitally important for money and progression. We have the power to capitalise on it, I don't think everton really did.

 

[DC_Boy]

It's true ATM that 5th and the lge cup would probably be seen as not good by AFC's standards- but hey give 'em a couple more years without a trophy and they might change their tune-

incidentally I think you'll find that one of the Arch-goons, Paul Merson, may already be singing from a different song sheet- cos he was as sick as the proverbial parrot when we did them 5-1 and kept ranting on about how it was winning trophies that defined big clubs- he was not 'appy with arsene one bit I can tell you that - and fair play to the man he is a true old skool gooner

 

[TheChosenOne]

It's true ATM that 5th and the lge cup would probably be seen as not good by AFC's standards- but hey give 'em a couple more years without a trophy and they might change their tune-

incidentally I think you'll find that one of the Arch-goons, Paul Merson, may already be singing from a different song sheet- cos he was as sick as the proverbial parrot when we did them 5-1 and kept ranting on about how it was winning trophies that defined big clubs- he was not 'appy with arsene one bit I can tell you that - and fair play to the man he is a true old skool gooner

Merson wasn't too happy on gillette sports on sky tonight
they wee talking about Liv/Ars and the other "pundits"
were giving it to him large.

 

[DC_Boy]

Merson wasn't too happy on gillette sports on sky tonight
they wee talking about Liv/Ars and the other "pundits"
were giving it to him large.

TCO - did you hear him that night of the 5-1 - it was classic - and the spurs fans were giving him gip all night too

I actually quite respect the guy

 

[Bulletspur]

They didn't have the money or backing to capitalise on it.

If we had gotten CL last year I think it would've made all the difference to the calibre of player we'd have been able to attract. It will be very interesting to see who we can attract in the summer.

Winning the league cup is better than 5th place I suppose, if it's a straight swap, same reward but more glory etc..

But if you were to ask Arsenal if winning the league cup, and finishing 5th was a good season, they'd tell you to fuck off. I'm not saying we should have the same expectations as Arsenal, because they are clearly established, but the league cup only gives you so much, in general it's 1 glorious day, the CL spots are vitally important for money and progression. We have the power to capitalise on it, I don't think everton really did.

Not knocking what you are saying as I agree mostly with what you are saying ie the bigger picture. But the aim of my thread was to put the here and now in perspective with a touch of optimism. After such a potentially miserable season, would you rather have us finish in the 9th, 10th or 11th position as we will finish but without a cup? Of course you wouldn't. In winning the cup and the potential failing of our London neighbors to do so make our season more successful, simple as.

 

[snake1]

spurs rule

:lol:

You've said that about 259 times.:wink:

 

[Shanks]

The difference is, clubs are defined by how much money they are worth these days, not whats in the trophy cabinet.

The top four, need to remain in the CHampions League, as it generates the most amount of money, that is the success needed for these clubs, or at least to get passed the league part to rake in maximum amount.

Domestic cup runs are also decent, but no where near on par.

So, as money now talks, a top 4 place is worth more than a carling cup win.

But its always nice to say we won something and you didn't (and they cant even use the kid thing, as they had their best team out bar one or two players!!!)

 

[Bulletspur]

The difference is, clubs are defined by how much money they are worth these days, not whats in the trophy cabinet.

The top four, need to remain in the CHampions League, as it generates the most amount of money, that is the success needed for these clubs, or at least to get passed the league part to rake in maximum amount.

Domestic cup runs are also decent, but no where near on par.

So, as money now talks, a top 4 place is worth more than a carling cup win.

But its always nice to say we won something and you didn't (and they cant even use the kid thing, as they had their best team out bar one or two players!!!)

Again not knocking what you are saying but why do you support a team ? To see how much money they can make? or for them to win things?

I will concede that most Owners and Chairmen are only in it for financial gain, but again the thread was aimed at us supporters. I may be very naive but I would rather win things, than constantly being also rans ie 2nd, 3rd or 4th, with an empty trophy cabinet.

 

[DC_Boy]

Well if it comes down to straight money - then we've now overtaken Toon - so we're 5th most successful club in country on turnover

but of course as quite a few will know I love us winning trophies and this season would prefer lge cup to 4th - not next season tho

incidentally I think the prize money in the Prem now eclipses the CL

 

[N10toN17]

Again not knocking what you are saying but why do you support a team ? To see how much money they can make? or for them to win things?

I will concede that most Owners and Chairmen are only in it for financial gain, but again the thread was aimed at us supporters. I may be very naive but I would rather win things, than constantly being also rans ie 2nd, 3rd or 4th, with an empty trophy cabinet.

Well said Bullet, too many wannabe entrepreneurs obsessed about money, probably an indictment of modern Britain, we are football supporters, I pay my wedge to see Spurs play well and win and winning trophies is the whole object of football.

The barcodes are in the top 20 rich list, they have a largish stadium, they've finished runners up in the prem, they've played in the champs league and yet we laugh, why? They haven't won a trophy since 1954 domestically.

Clubs are judged on what they win, second is nowhere and a fella called Bill Nic would nod and agree with me.

 

[orkneyspur]

So, reading all this shite about what defines success for a club, if you are a player and after a career playing in the Champions League season after season, you never reach a final or win the competition, or you are someone else who has a medals cabinet full of domestic honours, whose the most successful? :bang:

Surely it's the same for a club. Just because a players bank balance is massive as a result of playing for a team that finishes 3rd every year, doesn't mean he's successful. :shrug:

 

[worcestersauce]

The difinitive answer is this: - "winning a trophy is more successful than not winning a trophy"

Anything else is bullshit plain and simple.

coming 2nd 3rd or 4th may earn a team more money next season so the shareholders may be happy but that is only because sky will stump up the cash. That being the case are people saying that success is whatever sky says it is?

Around the emirates stadium are listed tropheys won by the club and when they were won, nowhere is it listed when they came 2nd or 3rd or 4th or how much money they earned in any season.

 

[Shanks]

You clearly have misunderstood my post.

Fact remains that to the premier league, teams and the boards, success is based on both pitch and money.

As a spurs fan would you rather we just ticket along in mid table, with the odd carling cup win?
Sorry, but I want to see my team at the top, and by doing so, you need to generate the money to be able to afford the best players, pay for the better wages, and provide the best facilities, there is no lieing that this costs an aweful lot of money so revenue needs to be at its maximum, its not tradition, its evolution of how football has gone.

I would rather see us in the Champions League than winning the Carling Cup, thats not because of money or because I want to be a businessman, its because I want to see our club pitted against the best Europe has to offer.

Not pitted against lower teams or higher teams reserves, or a trophy that comes a lowly 4th on their agenda's.

Champions League generates the most amount of money, you get a few seasons consistently finishing in the top 4, you then have other options, because you have the money to buy the best players, and your club offers the best football around.

This is not to take away the fact that we won a trophy, because it was amazing, and I'd love it just as much if we won it next year, but in terms of club success, surely getting a place in the top 4 shows that we are becoming more successful over a carling cup win....?

 

[TheBlueRooster]

You clearly have misunderstood my post.

Fact remains that to the premier league, teams and the boards, success is based on both pitch and money.

As a spurs fan would you rather we just ticket along in mid table, with the odd carling cup win?
Sorry, but I want to see my team at the top, and by doing so, you need to generate the money to be able to afford the best players, pay for the better wages, and provide the best facilities, there is no lieing that this costs an aweful lot of money so revenue needs to be at its maximum, its not tradition, its evolution of how football has gone.

I would rather see us in the Champions League than winning the Carling Cup, thats not because of money or because I want to be a businessman, its because I want to see our club pitted against the best Europe has to offer.

Not pitted against lower teams or higher teams reserves, or a trophy that comes a lowly 4th on their agenda's.

Champions League generates the most amount of money, you get a few seasons consistently finishing in the top 4, you then have other options, because you have the money to buy the best players, and your club offers the best football around.

This is not to take away the fact that we won a trophy, because it was amazing, and I'd love it just as much if we won it next year, but in terms of club success, surely getting a place in the top 4 shows that we are becoming more successful over a carling cup win....?

Yep I'd rather see us win trophies than come 2nd or 3rd in the league.

The way things are going we'd be in a champions league final against another English club, which we've already done this season. If Manure beat Chelski in the CL final would it be any better than our win over them in the Carling cup?

Champions league is all about money and nothing else. Years ago it was a top trophy to win as you had to beat champions from other countries. When Liverpool & Manure won the Champions league neither were at the time champions of England.

 

[Shanks]

Yep I'd rather see us win trophies than come 2nd or 3rd in the league.

The way things are going we'd be in a champions league final against another English club, which we've already done this season. If Manure beat Chelski in the CL final would it be any better than our win over them in the Carling cup?

Champions league is all about money and nothing else. Years ago it was a top trophy to win as you had to beat champions from other countries. When Liverpool & Manure won the Champions league neither were at the time champions of England.

Your happy with mediocracy for Spurs, yet I'm questioned as to why I support spurs!!!

I'd take an FA Cup win over the Carling Cup, I'd take the Champions League over the FA Cup, but I'd take the league over all of them put together.

But, we are not likely to be challenging for the league until we can offer champions league football - this is club pregression.

Sorry to sound blunt, but its ridiculous.
Our success in recent times doesn't even come close to that of Arsenal and Chelsea, yet I want it to be, I'm not going to settle for the odd carling cup and then brag that we are the most successful in london.
I want us up there in amongst the thick of it, getting into Europes top trophy and being there to fight out the league every year.

Not settle for the odd win for the league cup that lots of clubvs don't even take seriously.

 

[Bulletspur]

You clearly have misunderstood my post.

Fact remains that to the premier league, teams and the boards, success is based on both pitch and money.

As a spurs fan would you rather we just ticket along in mid table, with the odd carling cup win?
Sorry, but I want to see my team at the top, and by doing so, you need to generate the money to be able to afford the best players, pay for the better wages, and provide the best facilities, there is no lieing that this costs an aweful lot of money so revenue needs to be at its maximum, its not tradition, its evolution of how football has gone.

I would rather see us in the Champions League than winning the Carling Cup, thats not because of money or because I want to be a businessman, its because I want to see our club pitted against the best Europe has to offer.

Not pitted against lower teams or higher teams reserves, or a trophy that comes a lowly 4th on their agenda's.

Champions League generates the most amount of money, you get a few seasons consistently finishing in the top 4, you then have other options, because you have the money to buy the best players, and your club offers the best football around.

This is not to take away the fact that we won a trophy, because it was amazing, and I'd love it just as much if we won it next year, but in terms of club success, surely getting a place in the top 4 shows that we are becoming more successful over a carling cup win....?

And you also missed my point. It goes without saying that any Spurs supporter worth their salt would want to see us at the top, I am no exception. We should also strive to get there.

But I have news for you, we are not there yet!! So while striving to becoming the best and building towards the same, what is wrong with having, success and basking in it in the interim?

As I said before, I am talking about now, not any success we may have the in the future which is not guaranteed, we are talking about being successful now, which we are.

 

[worcestersauce]

You clearly have misunderstood my post.

Fact remains that to the premier league, teams and the boards, success is based on both pitch and money.

As a spurs fan would you rather we just ticket along in mid table, with the odd carling cup win?
Sorry, but I want to see my team at the top, and by doing so, you need to generate the money to be able to afford the best players, pay for the better wages, and provide the best facilities, there is no lieing that this costs an aweful lot of money so revenue needs to be at its maximum, its not tradition, its evolution of how football has gone.

I would rather see us in the Champions League than winning the Carling Cup, thats not because of money or because I want to be a businessman, its because I want to see our club pitted against the best Europe has to offer.

Not pitted against lower teams or higher teams reserves, or a trophy that comes a lowly 4th on their agenda's.

Champions League generates the most amount of money, you get a few seasons consistently finishing in the top 4, you then have other options, because you have the money to buy the best players, and your club offers the best football around.

This is not to take away the fact that we won a trophy, because it was amazing, and I'd love it just as much if we won it next year, but in terms of club success, surely getting a place in the top 4 shows that we are becoming more successful over a carling cup win....?

Hi Shanks,
No offence meant and I take your point but ultimately success is based on tropheys, when you say being at the top I guess you mean near the top but all the things that flow from that, more money better players etc are only useful to reach the ultimate goal of winning something there is no point getting better players just to get other better players just to not win tropheys but be near the top.

I do accept that champions league may raise our profile more than the Carling cup win and so may lead to the holy grail of winning the title sooner but I think that the cup win has done more for us than we realise, the general concensus is that it's the first not just a one off.

 

[TheBlueRooster]

Your happy with mediocracy for Spurs, yet I'm questioned as to why I support spurs!!!

I'd take an FA Cup win over the Carling Cup, I'd take the Champions League over the FA Cup, but I'd take the league over all of them put together.

But, we are not likely to be challenging for the league until we can offer champions league football - this is club pregression.

Sorry to sound blunt, but its ridiculous.
Our success in recent times doesn't even come close to that of Arsenal and Chelsea, yet I want it to be, I'm not going to settle for the odd carling cup and then brag that we are the most successful in london.
I want us up there in amongst the thick of it, getting into Europes top trophy and being there to fight out the league every year.

Not settle for the odd win for the league cup that lots of clubvs don't even take seriously.

No I'm not happy for mediocrity but I'll take what comes our way. Football is about winning trophies. At the begining of the season there are three domestic trophies up for grabs, to win at least one of them is what we want to do. There are 20 teams wanting the top four spot. I think that winning the Carling cup and qualifying for the UEFA cup is better than finishing 5th and winning nothing. The reward is the same.

Winning the FA cup is probably bigger than winning the Carling cup, but this year who would have the bigger win? Us beating Chelsea or Portsmouth beating Cardiff?

Yes I'd love to see us play at the highest level with some top class players in our squad, but I'm not going to get depressed if it doesn't happen.