Man United in even more shit that we thought...

[Cicada]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10237268.stm

so the Glazers have 3 businesses

1 is 700m in debt and can't make enough profit to cover the interest payments
1 is 143m in debt (out of a maxium allowed in the NFL of 150m) ($)
1 is worth 400m, but has over 400m in morgages so is essentially worthless...

they are the definition of fucked as long as the Glazers remain in charge..


basically, they bought united with 500m of the banks money and 272m of cash (which now turns out to be money that they got from remorgaging their malls), so in essense the banks money...

how the fuck were they allowed to spend 772m of not their money on a club?

 

[hellava_tough]

I've posted a few times on this subject over the last few months

Unless they get a new owner, they'll be a mid-table (or worse) club in 5 years time. Possibly sooner.

I think Jay-Z said it:

"Men Lie. Women lie. Figure don't lie"

Or something of that ilk :grin:

 

[Rocksuperstar]

It always amazes me that random people on a forum can unearth and understand information like this, but the FA were unable to see a risk here and let the transaction go ahead unhindered.

As we said months ago, being rich doesn't matter anymore, it's all about having a good credit rating. It's not about how much cash you can lay your hands on, it's about how much of others peoples cash you can lay your hands on, whether they like it or not.

In my humbles, i think that clubs in this situation should be treated the same way as clubs going into administration - the only difference is numbers being shuffled around quicker and more efficiently at Man Utd, so the debt won't sit still long enough to be nailed.

Seven hundred and seventy two million pounds of other peoples money. Which banks cleared these loans? I would love to know what their other customers think of their willingness to give it out in such vast sums to a bunch of people who, on paper, appear to be no more adept at managing their money than i am, yet i would guarantee that if i applied to that same bank with a request of a loan of even £1,500, it'd turn me down.

Strange world - i'm going to start using teeth and fingernails as currency.

 

[SlickMongoose]

It shouldn't be legal, should it? :shrug:

 

[tototoner]

this should be worth watching tomorrow evening

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00snmrj

 

[haxman]

this should be worth watching tomorrow evening

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00snmrj

Cheers for the info!

 

[Kendall]

It always amazes me that random people on a forum can unearth and understand information like this, but the FA were unable to see a risk here and let the transaction go ahead unhindered.

As we said months ago, being rich doesn't matter anymore, it's all about having a good credit rating. It's not about how much cash you can lay your hands on, it's about how much of others peoples cash you can lay your hands on, whether they like it or not.

In my humbles, i think that clubs in this situation should be treated the same way as clubs going into administration - the only difference is numbers being shuffled around quicker and more efficiently at Man Utd, so the debt won't sit still long enough to be nailed.

Seven hundred and seventy two million pounds of other peoples money. Which banks cleared these loans? I would love to know what their other customers think of their willingness to give it out in such vast sums to a bunch of people who, on paper, appear to be no more adept at managing their money than i am, yet i would guarantee that if i applied to that same bank with a request of a loan of even £1,500, it'd turn me down.

Strange world - i'm going to start using teeth and fingernails as currency.

Wasn't it RBS that approved the refinancing package for Liverpool?

Absolute joke

 

[antiloqus]

they never will, but I would literally splurge in my pants if they went into administration.

 

[brasil_spur]

I think it goes to the heart of the problems with modern football at the moment. On the surface they are one of the most successful clubs in the world, yet there's no way they could support themselves through their own means, therefore their success is bought on the back of debt.

The one thing i love the most about Spurs is how financially solvent we are, and full credit for that has to go to Mr Levy.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

My biggest gripe, if i was a Reds fan, would be that i firmly believe they would've been able to achieve just as much success without the huge debts. They were an exceptional setup long before the laughing gnome and his offspring got their grubby paws on it and i think have suffered more from blindly ambitious but financially gullible spending and investment than from over-payed wages.

It seems they didn't realise that they already had an incredibly successful business before they implemented this apparent "success at any cost" approach, but i still point the finger firmly at the FA for allowing the sale to go ahead. It's not like they've only built up this empire of debt in their other business dealings since they came to the club, i'm sure.

 

[fieryjack]

I think it goes to the heart of the problems with modern football at the moment. On the surface they are one of the most successful clubs in the world, yet there's no way they could support themselves through their own means, therefore their success is bought on the back of debt.

The one thing i love the most about Spurs is how financially solvent we are, and full credit for that has to go to Mr Levy.

You should get out more.

 

[SpunkyBackpack]

You should get out more.

:lol:


Be honest, you love solvency more than you like football, just admit it!

 

[PT]

Manchester United football club has been butt raped by a family of unscrupulous Americans using a well known funding scheme popular in USA where successful business and franchises are purchased and then placed in debt before being asset stripped.

Manchester United may yet become the next Leeds United.

 

[GeneralBurk]

I think it goes to the heart of the problems with modern football at the moment. On the surface they are one of the most successful clubs in the world, yet there's no way they could support themselves through their own means, therefore their success is bought on the back of debt.

The one thing i love the most about Spurs is how financially solvent we are, and full credit for that has to go to Mr Levy.

Quite the opposite is true. The problem for the Glazers is the cost of all the money borrowed is becoming harder and harder to finance.

Man Utd as a club remains profitable, far more than Tottenham, and the business model for repaying the interest on the borrowed worked initially however the problem for the Glazers is the cost of all the money borrowed is becoming harder and harder to finance.

However what Panorama are alleging is the equivalent you borrowing a stack of money to make the deposit for the mortgage on your house and then finding yourself in trouble when the interest rates go up.

 

[Bobishism]

It always amazes me that random people on a forum can unearth and understand information like this, but the FA were unable to see a risk here and let the transaction go ahead unhindered.

As we said months ago, being rich doesn't matter anymore, it's all about having a good credit rating. It's not about how much cash you can lay your hands on, it's about how much of others peoples cash you can lay your hands on, whether they like it or not.

In my humbles, i think that clubs in this situation should be treated the same way as clubs going into administration - the only difference is numbers being shuffled around quicker and more efficiently at Man Utd, so the debt won't sit still long enough to be nailed.

Seven hundred and seventy two million pounds of other peoples money. Which banks cleared these loans? I would love to know what their other customers think of their willingness to give it out in such vast sums to a bunch of people who, on paper, appear to be no more adept at managing their money than i am, yet i would guarantee that if i applied to that same bank with a request of a loan of even £1,500, it'd turn me down.

Strange world - i'm going to start using teeth and fingernails as currency.

Maybe it's more complicated than it appears. Or maybe this is Harvard school of fucking finance community.

 

[mattdefoe]

how could this of possibly been allowed to happen by manchester united?

I dont get it, they were the best team on the planet and had alot of $$ then all these debts when they took over,

Who sanctioned this?

 

[Chris12345]

As we said months ago, being rich doesn't matter anymore, it's all about having a good credit rating. It's not about how much cash you can lay your hands on, it's about how much of others peoples cash you can lay your hands on, whether they like it or not.

I'm pretty sure massive banks aren't being forced to give out loans of several million pounds against their will :lol:

 

[DogsOfWar]

Why's everyone complaining?

These debts are a great leveller and will allow us to compete. Take away the debt repayment and their significantly higher wage bill and they have pretty much the same spending power as us.

United aren't going to do a Portsmouth as they are still profitable but then they can no longer poach our players at £30 million a go so it's win-win.

 

[michaelden]

Ideally we want interest rates to rise forcing these clubs to go bankrupt

 

[Rocksuperstar]

I'm pretty sure massive banks aren't being forced to give out loans of several million pounds against their will :lol:

As pointed out by the ever-charming Mr Shism on the previous page, i'm certainly no scholar in these things, but i was under the impression that loans and investments by banks, on that scale, are funded by long term savings of customers? Bit like my pension scheme at work - i pay into the scheme, that money is then invested in various markets to "make it work for me".

Wasn't huge, risky investments the reason we had a little financial-faux-pas across the globe not so long ago, with thousands of people losing their money? :think: