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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

TheWook

TheWook

Here
Jan 8, 2021
1,020
4,111
arunspurs said:
Since everyone is so caught upon 'Trust the academy' phrase here....

Levy did not say it , Fabrizio manufactured it himself...

What Levy said :

“We made a conscious decision that we wanted a coach who would understand what we really wanted as a Club, which was to play attacking football, to enable everyone to enjoy coming to a match and be entertained, and also someone who understood the importance of the Academy.”
On the subject of player recruitment, Daniel said: “The notion that Tottenham haven’t backed certain managers is incorrect. We’re currently paying the price, perhaps, where some of the acquisitions have not turned out to be as we hoped.”

What Fabrizio quoted :

“The notion that Tottenham haven’t backed certain managers is incorrect” “We’re currently paying the price where some of the acquisitions have not turned out to be as we hoped”. “We wanted Ange Postecoglou to play attacking football & trust the Academy”.

Both IMO have huge difference.
Levy isnt saying, Ange has to trust academy & make selections from it. He is simply saying, have academy in your thoughts on everything you do..whether its showing up for academy games regularly & interacting with players and staff. Be more engaged, like Poch used to do.

And for the record, I am not pro-Levy
Click to expand...
This, all for trying to get engagement but don’t fabricate the story!
 
Tucker

Tucker

Shitehawk
Jul 15, 2013
31,361
146,935
arunspurs said:
Since everyone is so caught upon 'Trust the academy' phrase here....

Levy did not say it , Fabrizio manufactured it himself...

What Levy said :

“We made a conscious decision that we wanted a coach who would understand what we really wanted as a Club, which was to play attacking football, to enable everyone to enjoy coming to a match and be entertained, and also someone who understood the importance of the Academy.”
On the subject of player recruitment, Daniel said: “The notion that Tottenham haven’t backed certain managers is incorrect. We’re currently paying the price, perhaps, where some of the acquisitions have not turned out to be as we hoped.”

What Fabrizio quoted :

“The notion that Tottenham haven’t backed certain managers is incorrect” “We’re currently paying the price where some of the acquisitions have not turned out to be as we hoped”. “We wanted Ange Postecoglou to play attacking football & trust the Academy”.

Both IMO have huge difference.
Levy isnt saying, Ange has to trust academy & make selections from it. He is simply saying, have academy in your thoughts on everything you do..whether its showing up for academy games regularly & interacting with players and staff. Be more engaged, like Poch used to do.

And for the record, I am not pro-Levy
Click to expand...
Too late now, the mob have already made their minds up on this story.
 
T

TheHodFather

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2013
547
1,561
spurs9 said:
But we knew Lucas wasn't good enough yet still played him. Lucas was also playing for the U23s towards the end of the season and Mundle was out performing him, so there is no excuse.
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I vaguely recall somebody saying a while back in the youth thread that the club has a policy of not playing players who are refusing to sign new contracts. Assuming I wasn't imagining that, it seems like it might have been a bit of a stand-off. The club wouldn't play Mundle because he wouldn't sign a contract, and Mundle wouldn't sign a contract because he wasn't getting any chances.

Not sure what the answer to that is, really. On the one hand, I can see the logic in refusing to give opportunities to players who won't commit. On the other hand if it's costing us our more talented youth players....
 
S

spark7586

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2008
436
868
yido_number1 said:
So funny watching everyone clambering over the academy sound byte. The same people are calling winks and Skipp shit and panning off tanganga.

I love having the academy players come through but we need an environment where they're given time and mistakes aren't
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winks is utter shit though! He’s had so many chances and needs sold. Not to mention the contestant whining to the press when things don’t go his way! He’s not good enough, just like Mason, Carroll, Bentaleb and probably Harvey white. Skipp has a lot more about him and is a far better footballer now than Winks has ever been. I’m all for supporting academy players but if they aren’t good enough they need sold.
 
fishhhandaricecake

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
19,269
48,168
arunspurs said:
Since everyone is so caught upon 'Trust the academy' phrase here....

Levy did not say it , Fabrizio manufactured it himself...

What Levy said :

“We made a conscious decision that we wanted a coach who would understand what we really wanted as a Club, which was to play attacking football, to enable everyone to enjoy coming to a match and be entertained, and also someone who understood the importance of the Academy.”
On the subject of player recruitment, Daniel said: “The notion that Tottenham haven’t backed certain managers is incorrect. We’re currently paying the price, perhaps, where some of the acquisitions have not turned out to be as we hoped.”

What Fabrizio quoted :

“The notion that Tottenham haven’t backed certain managers is incorrect” “We’re currently paying the price where some of the acquisitions have not turned out to be as we hoped”. “We wanted Ange Postecoglou to play attacking football & trust the Academy”.

Both IMO have huge difference.
Levy isnt saying, Ange has to trust academy & make selections from it. He is simply saying, have academy in your thoughts on everything you do..whether its showing up for academy games regularly & interacting with players and staff. Be more engaged, like Poch used to do.

And for the record, I am not pro-Levy
Click to expand...
Great post and classic example of people spinning and exaggerating everything to be OTT or negative or just not true.

Someone above said something like “if Levy thinks trusting the academy will work because we have lots of players to bring through to make an impact then he is deluded”.

Levy didn’t say that he just said Ange will understand the importance of the link to the academy.

But there is a difference between putting a few more academic players on the bench and giving them more minutes and maybe letting one break into the first team mix (all of which Ange could do) compared to Conte who basically flat out refused to use or develop any of them.

Mason put a few more on the bench in our final game against leeds and brought them on, that’s the kind of balance Ange should bring, e.g. recruit players for the key positions but once the budget is used up then give a few of the academy lads a chance to train with and develop with the first team.

Also how do we know a lot of this generation aren’t good enough sure their results aren’t as good as the generations below but youth football results is a mixed bag and many wrote off Kane for years, Mason didn’t break through until he was about 22/23 so unless we give them more minutes on the pitch we will never know.

Every player develops at a different rate and can peak unexpectedly, but if they’re not given the chance then we will never know.
 
fishhhandaricecake

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
19,269
48,168
Trix said:
Don't get you point mate.

The academy at the top end is pretty poor. I don't care if he said "trust" or if he said "understand the importance of". If he practiced what he preached the academy wouldn't have got into the mess it has. For about 5 years it was completely neglected. All the best young players choosing all the other London clubs over us despite us having the best facilities. Chelsea, West Ham, Arsenal, Palace have been streets ahead. It's ok saying we need to use the Academy but we are a few years away from being able to actually do that properly. If he wants to focus on that then that's fine, but it won't happen over night, and we need to run it far better than we have.

My big concern now is that it was FP that was turning it around and it was a real pet project of his. He spent a lot of time working on it and it was starting to pay dividends in the 14-17 bracket. I do hope we build on what he was doing and don't bring someone in who wants to rip the playbook up and start all over again on their own image.
Click to expand...
But aside from retaining and developing the best talent which is ofc important and we need to do better there, a huge factor is hiring a 1st team manager who does as Levy said “understand the importance of the connection to the youth academy” because otherwise if you have conte’s in charge of your club NONE of your youth players will get a chance and conte has always favoured experienced pros.

So appointing Big Ange is a good step forward and as he’s coached Aussie Youth teams he certainly does understand the connection and will give youth team players more of/a fair chance.
 
yido_number1

yido_number1

He'll always be magic
Jun 8, 2004
8,670
16,854
fishhhandaricecake said:
But aside from retaining and developing the best talent which is ofc important and we need to do better there, a huge factor is hiring a 1st team manager who does as Levy said “understand the importance of the connection to the youth academy” because otherwise if you have conte’s in charge of your club NONE of your youth players will get a chance and conte has always favoured experienced pros.

So appointing Big Ange is a good step forward and as he’s coached Aussie Youth teams he certainly does understand the connection and will give youth team players more of/a fair chance.
Click to expand...
Didn't Conte bring through bastoni at inter? I think he has done with others as well. Also brought Skipp into the first team fold.

It's not as cut and dry as you make out. Ultimately if players are good enough managers will use them, if they aren't they won't
 
R

Roberts84

Well-Known Member
Nov 20, 2006
1,674
2,322
yido_number1 said:
Didn't Conte bring through bastoni at inter? I think he has done with others as well. Also brought Skipp into the first team fold.

It's not as cut and dry as you make out. Ultimately if players are good enough managers will use them, if they aren't they won't
Click to expand...
Didn’t Nuno start Skip in all matches that he was available for and became a regular under him?
 
McFlash

McFlash

In the corner, eating crayons.
Oct 19, 2005
12,903
46,134
PLTuck said:
I think trust the academy means just that. It was reported that Conte had no interest in the academy. They didn't even play the same formation and tactics, as they knew that no matter how well players did, they wouldn't be breaking through. As a young player are you going to want to stick around when you could have an absolutely blinding season and the 1st team manager doesnt even know who you are?

Poch on the other hand wanted the academy to play the same systems and went to watch a lot of academy games, blooded skipp, winks, white and made Kane our main man.

For example, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that had Mundle had the minutes Richy had this season, he would have had a better output over the season. £60m saved there means we have more to spend on rebuilding other parts of the team.
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I like this but it has to be said that Poch was actually pretty shit with the kids imo.
We nearly lost Skipp because of Poch's refusal to send him on loan, he only signed an extension on the proviso that he got a decent season on loan and that was when Jose arrived.

Poch had a weird thought that just hanging around the first team was all the experience the academy kids needed, when in reality and as we've seen with Tanganga, they need regular, proper football every week.

It's a fine balance when bringing kids through but I honestly don't think Poch was very good at it.
 
mil1lion

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
42,493
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thebenjamin

thebenjamin

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2008
12,268
38,973
alexn_spurs said:
Will be interesting to see which full backs he uses next season, as he's got 3 currently on each side
Click to expand...

I think he only has one actual full back - Emerson. Porro, Udogie, Spence, Perisic, and Sessegnon are all out and out wing backs. I wouldn't fancy any of them playing in a flat back 4. Obviously he will have to use them as such but none of them are actualy full backs. And Davies is way too slow to play full back these days, he's really a centre back now. So actually there's only 1 back 4 specialist full back at the club.
 
C

cliff jones

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
4,094
6,668
fishhhandaricecake said:
Great post and classic example of people spinning and exaggerating everything to be OTT or negative or just not true.

Someone above said something like “if Levy thinks trusting the academy will work because we have lots of players to bring through to make an impact then he is deluded”.

Levy didn’t say that he just said Ange will understand the importance of the link to the academy.

But there is a difference between putting a few more academic players on the bench and giving them more minutes and maybe letting one break into the first team mix (all of which Ange could do) compared to Conte who basically flat out refused to use or develop any of them.

Mason put a few more on the bench in our final game against leeds and brought them on, that’s the kind of balance Ange should bring, e.g. recruit players for the key positions but once the budget is used up then give a few of the academy lads a chance to train with and develop with the first team.

Also how do we know a lot of this generation aren’t good enough sure their results aren’t as good as the generations below but youth football results is a mixed bag and many wrote off Kane for years, Mason didn’t break through until he was about 22/23 so unless we give them more minutes on the pitch we will never know.

Every player develops at a different rate and can peak unexpectedly, but if they’re not given the chance then we will never know.
Click to expand...
you’re exaggerating others’ exaggeration!

There’s simply no need to mention the academy at all in the statement- why bother? I don’t recall appointments made by other big clubs needing to point towards this aspect.
 
K

knilly

SC Supporter
Apr 12, 2005
1,819
1,033
agrdavidsfan said:
People forget Sanchez came from Ajax and at one point must have been able to play high and play football 🤣 maybe we broke him!
Click to expand...
Mourinho even said publicly their plan when Utd played Ajax in the Europa final was to mark everyone else and let Sanchez have the ball as he was the weak link.
 
Timberwolf

Timberwolf

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2008
10,328
50,217
agrdavidsfan said:
People forget Sanchez came from Ajax and at one point must have been able to play high and play football 🤣 maybe we broke him!
Click to expand...
I think with Sanchez about 90% of the problem is mental. I mean, obviously he's never going to be a slick technical player making line-splitting passes, but I think he's the biggest confidence player at the club. On the rare occasions he actually believes in himself (usually a handful of appearances per season) he's actually surprisingly good on the ball and can pull off some decent passes. I just think he's constantly in his own head and falls apart under pressure, hence he's usually some degree of rubbish and makes silly mistakes.

I think he's probably too fragile and broken at this point for Ange to turn him into a decent player but compared to our other CBs, I wonder if he's the one Ange might try to work with given his pace. Dier is too damn slow and Tanganga is so injury prone - don't think either of them are viable options at all, really.
 
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