The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[chinaman]

If we get shift Alderweireld & Dembele and bring in Grealish, Zaha & Sanson I'd be satisfied with that window with how things currently stand. I'd take that and see how the season goes

Sanson?

 

[jay2040]

Sanson?

Don't tell me you don't know who he is!

 

[ToDarrenIsToDo]

Sanson?

Morgan Sanson, relatively reliable midfielder who plays for Marseille

 

[aussie spur]

All your footnotes are things which can’t inanyway be attributed to levy lacking ambition. My post was merely to demonstrate that this boring argument of our chairman not being ambitious enough and not backing the manager is false. In fact, every note you added is actually a Pochettino mistake, not a Levy mistake.

Pochettino chose Winks as the one purely untested academy player he would champion. Pochettino wanted Wanyama, Sissoko, Foyth and Llorente (see his comments upon signing Fernando). And Pochettino used Llorente so little that he’d always look awful when he did have a chance, so now he wants him out. Pochettino also wants Toby and Rose out, and Pochettino deemed Lamela the man around whom his revolution would be built.

You may call my arguments simplistic, I say that accusing Levy of not backing the manager based on this window so far is more simplistic. I’d also say that, you can’t base opinions on players who are hypothetically leaving but in the same breath criticise lack of signings, because much like we’ve yet to buy anyone, we’re also yet to sell anyone.

Disagree with this.

Levy has to react to things like injuries and players not fulfilling their potential, not sit on his hands.

If poch "chose" those players (he says he did not choose sissoko) it's because levy offered them or no one (better).

Llorente for example was a last gasp desperate buy after levy again failed to bring in a wing forward - a player type we still need/want that levy (so far, going on itk) won't pay up for.

The fact that we can't sell or loan our unwanted players (on favourable terms) has a lot to do with levy not getting/going for primary targets in the first place. VJ, llorente, sissoko, GKN were all make do signings after we wouldn't pay for more suitable players in those positions. These signings were not ambitious (even accepting that we have a limited budget).

 

[whitelanefever]

Morgan Sanson, relatively reliable midfielder who plays for Marseille

Good player.. injuries have curtailed him
. If their was a player I would pick from Marseille it would be Maxime Lopez..that boy willl be special imo

 

[nattydredd]

Just a little reminder, this was from May 24th This year :-

[B]Dan Kilpatrick[/B]‏Verified account @[B]Dan_KP[/B] May 24
#thfc BREAKING: Poch & his staff have signed new 5-year deals until 2023. He has received assurances from Levy that there will be significant funds to spend this summer to take the club to the next level. A host of key players set to follow.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Just a little reminder, this was from May 24th This year :-
Poch & his staff have signed new 5-year deals until 2023. He has received assurances from Levy that there will be significant funds to spend this summer

Sons will arrive shortly to fog, deflect and bewilder

 

[scat1620]

Sons will arrive shortly to fog, deflect and bewilder

Good to have you back in the fold.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Good to have you back in the fold.

Just warming up should I be required when the window closes. I still think he'll turn it around but best to keep my hand in, just in case.

 

[diamond lights]

Just warming up should I be required when the window closes. I still think he'll turn it around but best to keep my hand in, just in case.

I have generally been a fully paid up member of bsodl but I'm getting a bit worried. Poch's comments yesterday shows his frustration and if he's getting pissed off then maybe things aren't all under control.

We'll see - I think we need three decent signings to appease the masses and more importantly give us the squad we need to challenge.

 

[LeParisien]

Unfortunately some here are unable to reconcile the two. Just as some will think you should be confident about our transfer strategy right up until the moment the window ends in disappointment.

I think it is far beyond the window that you judge it’s success. It is at the end of the season we judge against performance and results.

Idealised result this year: QF CL, winning a cup and 2nd in league. With some memorable performances and attacking football.

Acceptable (bottom line) result: 2nd round exit, cup final, top 4 finish. With some memorable performances and attacking football.

Those (for me) are the end goals although we could debate them. If we achieve somewhere in that range then this will have been a successful transfer window EVEN IF WE SIGN NOONE ELSE. It can be viewed as not participating when there was little value and helping to normalise the market a little. No sweat.

Remember, the transfer market is a means to an end you beautiful people.

 

[scat1620]

Posting in this thread as it seems to be the most on-topic for my point, but just want to get it out there on the record that come the morning of 10th August, I'll be judging the transfer window on whether I think we've come out of it stronger, on-par, or weaker than we went in to it. Not on how much money we've spent (because you can spend £30m and somehow end up weaker than you started if that money has been spent on Sissoko), and not on how many players we've signed (because you can bring in a new player and somehow end up weaker than you started if that player is Sissoko), but just on whether I think we're in better or worse shape than we started.

Getting this in now because I think that whilst we may end up still spending decent money and bringing a few players in, I fear those players might be total Option D types whose arrival might not strengthen us, so I want to get it out there before this time next week that simply spending and signing players doesn't mean that the club automatically got the window right in my eyes. Everything depends on who leaves and arrives, not how many people or how much they cost.

 

[pablo73]

I think it is far beyond the window that you judge it’s success. It is at the end of the season we judge against performance and results.

Idealised result this year: QF CL, winning a cup and 2nd in league. With some memorable performances and attacking football.

Acceptable (bottom line) result: 2nd round exit, cup final, top 4 finish. With some memorable performances and attacking football.

Those (for me) are the end goals although we could debate them. If we achieve somewhere in that range then this will have been a successful transfer window EVEN IF WE SIGN NOONE ELSE. It can be viewed as not participating when there was little value and helping to normalise the market a little. No sweat.

Remember, the transfer market is a means to an end you beautiful people.

If we don't sign anyone yet manage to finish second or third (again) and get to the quarter finals of the Champions league (for example), would you not wonder how well we might have done if we'd actually improved the squad? We have an excellent squad but it has very obvious areas we can improve (ie central midfield) so to not improve is potentially missing a huge opportunity to capitalise while we have some outstanding players and manager.

 

[mark87]

Looool

He just went full west ham. Never go full west ham.

 

[hellava_tough]

He just went full west ham. Never go full west ham.

Got to be a Troll

Shirley

 

[hellava_tough]

I hate how everything gets so polarising/binary these days, makes more sense on social media but it still seeps into forums where more discussion is possible.

I personally think Levy does a great job and I accept his transfer profile of buying high potential players that also retain resale value. I think it's great. My issue is when we find players in that profile and drag our heels to try and squeeze every single penny out of the deals. I can explain all that and close by mentioning that I think we can afford to ease off on that and overpay slightly to wrap up certain deals in better time...


...and within minutes I'll be told how this isn't sustainable and reckless, others will act like I want us to spend £200m net every summer, and no doubt someone will bring up Leeds Utd before long.

Loving this post

 

[LeParisien]

If we don't sign anyone yet manage to finish second or third (again) and get to the quarter finals of the Champions league (for example), would you not wonder how well we might have done if we'd actually improved the squad? We have an excellent squad but it has very obvious areas we can improve (ie central midfield) so to not improve is potentially missing a huge opportunity to capitalise while we have some outstanding players and manager.

I think that is an incredibly fair point to make and it was the first objection I had to my own point.

So I modified it to benchmark success against expectations PRE closing of the transfer window. If we finished 2nd in league, won a cup and hit a CL QF then it is because the squad was more sufficient than we supposed back in August 2018. Perhaps people consistently underestimated the effect of having Moura firing on all cylinders, or Wink’s return or the progress that sanchez would make or a youth team player really stepped up...or a tactical tweak... so many factors involved.

The assumption among many - particularly at this time of year - is that the most important way to improve a squad is by buying players. I know first-hand that people at the club view that as being far less significant than fans do.

The basic logical problem with the approach you outline is that you ASSUME that entering the transfer market is always better than not entering the transfer market. You can never be proved wrong in your hypothesis that we must buy players because no matter how much success we have you will always think we could have had more if we had bought XYZ.

In the end, even if we think we as a club need to buy certain players, those players need to be available at a fair price. I trust the club to find that value if it exists.

I just hope that Pochettino is happy with the outcome because he influences so many of the factors necessary for success.

 

[pablo73]

I think that is an incredibly fair point to make and it was the first objection I had to my own point.

So I modified it to benchmark success against expectations PRE closing of the transfer window. If we finished 2nd in league, won a cup and hit a CL QF then it is because the squad was more sufficient than we supposed back in August 2018. Perhaps people consistently underestimated the effect of having Moura firing on all cylinders, or Wink’s return or the progress that sanchez would make or a youth team player really stepped up...or a tactical tweak... so many factors involved.

The assumption among many - particularly at this time of year - is that the most important way to improve a squad is by buying players. I know first-hand that people at the club view that as being far less significant than fans do.

The basic logical problem with the approach you outline is that you ASSUME that entering the transfer market is always better than not entering the transfer market. You can never be proved wrong in your hypothesis that we must buy players because no matter how much success we have you will always think we could have had more if we had bought XYZ.

In the end, even if we think we as a club need to buy certain players, those players need to be available at a fair price. I trust the club to find that value if it exists.

I just hope that Pochettino is happy with the outcome because he influences so many of the factors necessary for success.

You make some interesting points, when all is said and done the part in bold is all that really counts. Based on his latest comments I just can't see him being happy if we don't add to the squad.

 

[hellava_tough]

I think that is an incredibly fair point to make and it was the first objection I had to my own point.

So I modified it to benchmark success against expectations PRE closing of the transfer window. If we finished 2nd in league, won a cup and hit a CL QF then it is because the squad was more sufficient than we supposed back in August 2018. Perhaps people consistently underestimated the effect of having Moura firing on all cylinders, or Wink’s return or the progress that sanchez would make or a youth team player really stepped up...or a tactical tweak... so many factors involved.

The assumption among many - particularly at this time of year - is that the most important way to improve a squad is by buying players. I know first-hand that people at the club view that as being far less significant than fans do.

The basic logical problem with the approach you outline is that you ASSUME that entering the transfer market is always better than not entering the transfer market. You can never be proved wrong in your hypothesis that we must buy players because no matter how much success we have you will always think we could have had more if we had bought XYZ.

In the end, even if we think we as a club need to buy certain players, those players need to be available at a fair price. I trust the club to find that value if it exists.

I just hope that Pochettino is happy with the outcome because he influences so many of the factors necessary for success.

You're going to find it very difficult to convince football fans (myself included) that this assumption isn't the case.

Especially when the whole professional footballing world for the last 60+ years assumes this to be true.

 

[aussie spur]

I think it is far beyond the window that you judge it’s success. It is at the end of the season we judge against performance and results.

(describes goals)

Those (for me) are the end goals although we could debate them. If we achieve somewhere in that range then this will have been a successful transfer window EVEN IF WE SIGN NOONE ELSE. It can be viewed as not participating when there was little value and helping to normalise the market a little. No sweat.

Remember, the transfer market is a means to an end you beautiful people.

I don't want new players for the sake of it but I think the transfer window is to be judged not only by next years results (which can be affected by many variables).

It is also about strategy regarding the steady strengthening and regeneration of the squad list (including responding to chronic injuries) and providing for the future, putting ourselves in a position to continue to grow and take advantage if teams like city falter. It's also about ensuring that in future windows we are in a position where we can move on opportunities.

We don't seem to have done that well recently on this (with some exceptions), some of which is of our own making, some of which is not. We need to clean up the list and that will mean taking losses now on certain players and perhaps paying up for one or two critical spots if we can get a suitable player. Otherwise all the stuff that is making it hard for us this window is just gonna get worse.