new Sevillaesque formation???

[DEFchenkOE]

Mil1ion that is one humungous post!!!

From watching Sevilla they generally played a pretty standard 4-4-2 as far as im concerned. 2 attacking fullbacks, 2 attacking wingers, 2 strong central midfielders who would usually sit quite deep but would also attack when required, and both attackers were versatile enough to drop deep when required. But I would say they both played a number 9 type role rather than a classic 9 and 10. It's possible we could play like this with our current players, we'll have to wait and see if we could be as effective or not. Also many people keep saying that Gio will be wide left, hasn't he said that his preferred position is behind the striker? ie he wants to be central attacking midfielder or a number 10 striker.

 

[Adam456]

It's a 2-2-2-2-1-1 because the full backs and wingers appear slightly ahead of the centre players

Anybody can see that

I hope you're taking notes Wendy

 

[mil1lion]

Mil1ion that is one humungous post!!!

Thanks. I'm trying to break the record post length. Anyone know what it is?:shrug:

 

[SpurSince57]

When you hit the character limit and have to post in instalments. :grin:

Great analysis.

 

[mitch8the8spur]

Our formation wont be like Sevilla because we dont have Dani Alves (neither do Sevilla anymore mind.) Ramos had to play a certain way to accomodate players like Alves. He'll do the same for Spurs. He likes to play his best players, even if its in a different position to normal. Which is why he said he wont know the formation until he know who is here this season. Players like Giovani and Modric are very dynamic so they give us some great options. Ultimately, we'll have a base of a 4-4-2 but such is the complexity of a Ramos team, it will be a very dynamic formation.

So far we have a team that can play 4-4-2, 5-3-2 or 4-5-1 effectively and all three could be used throughout the season depending on whether we're at home or depending on opposition etc. Theres really no point putting together a formation and a first team because it will change constantly throughout the season. Its best to look at all the different player we have in the squad and what each player offers. The more options we have, the better it will suit Ramos. The goalkeeper is the only position that doesn't need to be looked at in that way.

How many left backs do we have and what do they offer? Gilberto - An attack minded left back that can plat left back, left midfield or centre midfield. He offers us plenty of experience and good delivery with his left foot Bale - Still young but very good going forward, has bags of energy (well suited if he plays as wing-back) and can easily play left midfield. Has great delivery and scores goals, aswell as being a free-kick specialist. Probably the closest we have to Alves in terms of attacking ability. Ekotto - Another young player who has yet to show us how good he is due to injuries. He, like the others, looks to be attack minded with a sweat left foot. He could be the surprise of the season. All are natural left footed players. Two can play as left midfielders (not wingers) and all could play as wingbacks. They are all good going forward.

Right Back? Hutton - Another attack minded full back who has shown some very impressive runs going forward. He's one of our best fullbacks as far as defending goes. He has shown that he can deliver a great cross too (away to Derby for Bents goal for example.) Guntar - Like Bale he is very young, very good going forward aswell. Has plenty of energy too and competent defending. Both could play as wing-backs and both are natural right footed players.

Centre backs? King - Very important at the back for us. He can also play defensive midfield but is best at centre back. Woodgate - Another important player with experience. Only plays centre back. Dawson - Still young but experienced enough now in the PL, can only play centre back. Not crucial to formations. A centre back is a centre back but with Kaboul, Rocha and Gardner likely to leave, we could use one more. Preferably someone that covers as a third right back aswell.

Left and Right Midfield - Giovani - Can play either flank just as effectively. On the left wing he uses his pace and trickery to beat his man. Still needs to improve his crossing in that area. On the right is effective at cutting in and scoring goals Henry style (but in a mirror image.) Behind the front men (almost a free role) he is at his best, can score and create plenty of goals when he's up for it. Lennon - At his best as an out and out right winger. Can play on the left (has improved on that side) but does narrow play on that side. The attacking left backs (as opposed to Lee or Chimbonda (when at left back, who is more defensive)) could helkp out there. Can also play the free role (as he did away to Chelsea in 06/07.) Malbranque - To me is better on the left than on the right. Likes to come infield from the left. Can play on the right without too much conviction at times (doesn't have the pace or trickery as a winger though) but at his best as an ACM (rarely been used there by us.) So all of whom can effectively play on either wing or behind the front man. Is 3 enough considering only 1 is a natural winger? (Bentley should add depth there.) We can effectively play with two wingers, a diamond midfield with 1 behind the strikers. Plus we can easily play 5 in midfield with all 3.

Central midfield? Zokora - More box to box, tackle the man on the ball type player. Doesn't have the discipline for DM nor the attacking ability as an ACM. Can play centre back or right back. Plays best alongside a defensive midfielder like Tainio. Effectively aimed towards a more defensive central midfield pairing. Modric - Looked great in deep central midfield for Croatia, with freedom to get forward (with protection of a defensive midfielder) and play more as an ACM. Played for Zagreb on the left, but with freedom to come infield like Messi (best suited with a defensive left back which we dont have.) Jenas - More box to box than anything. Great energy levels, can be the engine room and driving force in midfield but without the quality to deliver as Modric. Is our best goalscoring midfielder though. Can play right midfield but not as a winger. Huddlestone - Our most gifted defensive midfielder who is at his best when playing deep alongside a defensive midfielder. Covers at centre back too but doesn't drive forward much. Effectively we could play all four together in a diamond midfield. We can also play two defensive midfielders in Huddlestone and Zokora. We could play Huddlestone or Zokora behind both Modric and Jenas aswell in a 5 man midfield. Neither are (in my mind) best suited to that and both limit our options (as i dont see them as a natural DM) so a new DM is a must.

Strikers? Berbatov - at his best when allowed to drop off and link up play. Can play as the loan striker aswell. Keane - effectively a support striker but has become the more advanced striker when Berbatov plays. He can play on the left in a more attack minded sense (but the workrate to defend when needed.) Bent - our least dynamic but our most out and out striker. Has the pace and power to play alone up front. All could esily play together in a 4-3-3 but we would lack width (relying a great deal on the fullbacks) but can play Bent or Berbatov alone in a 4-5-1. The 4-4-2 is easy because they can all play together (unlike the Keane and Defoe question marks when together.) We have Giovani acting asa 4th choice too.

I've left out the players who are likel to leave, and some youngsters that may be fringe players.

So do we have enough options? Well as i say we only have 1 natural winger so another 1 or maybe 2 wide players. Centre backs aren't crucial in terms of formation but a new experienced centre back (El-Dunne) would be good. Also, no natural defensive midfielder who can cope in that role lone. I can only think that Huddlestone and Zokora could play that role together but not effectively with Jenas and Modric alongside them when alone in there. A new DM would open up some of the other formations like 4-5-1 with both Modric and Jenas aswell as 2 wingers, or a 4-3-3 with 1 defensive midfielder.

So effectively the midfield is the area that needs looking at in order to allow us to play the more dynamic formations. I think we could effectively play 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 against any opponent. Thats all we have to chose from if we're to see the best performances so far. So we really need 2 or 3 midfielders. 1 or 2 wide players and 1 defensive midfielder. Maybe 1 attacking central midfielder and 1 wide player (De La Red maybe.) That would give us the dynamics to play the style that Ramos used at Sevilla as they had 2 wingers in Adriano and Navas. Plus a true defensive midfielder in Poulsen.

quality post abit disapointed bout there not being any ohara :shrug:

 

[chileanspursfan]

As for now...

GOMES

HUTTON WOODGATE KING BALE

ZOKORA HUDDLESTONE

LENNON MODRIC GIO

BERBATOV

I personally rate JENAS as a good player, better in a box to box formation than Hudd or Zokora, but just can't see him fit in the squad Juande is (theoretically) forming, maybe instead of Zokora, but the Ivorian seems to have his total support for the DM position and Jenas might be a little bit more offensive than that (still not of the required flair and creativity as Modric). Maybe with the 7 men bench he will become Juande's utility man, something like the Premierleague's best 12th man if such a horrible NBAish comparison is allowed.

Both the Keane/Luis Garcia sagas, plus the fact of only playing with one up front, would make perfect sense to me.

As for Bentley being signed, I feel Lennon would still get decent minutes as his backup, or either being deployed on the left wing. The future would seem very dark for Steed, who I would allow to move really because he deserves full 90 minutes in a Premier League team only because of what he showed on the last season. He's getting older now and I reckon he'll want more minutes than what he is likely to get playing for us. But still, all this would depend on the signing of Bentley and I personally believe that with the addition of Gio and Modric, both Lennon and Steed would become better players as they won't have the sole responsibility of feeding the striker(s) and will play more freely, as well as being options themselves.

As for the DM, I am neither convinced by Zokora nor Tainio and would only deploy Huddlestone alongside and experienced "hound" in the mould of Gatusso or maybe an experienced player with an exceptional sense of positioning and teamwork as Albelda. I think this is the weakest part of the team by far.

The CB's, we would have been great with someone like Dunne. I personally believe that if a player like Cata Diaz is brought to keep the warm bench until either Woody or Ledley get injured, we would be repeating the Rocha story. I reckon we will have to stick to either Dawson or Kaboul and pray for both our starting CB's not to be injured at the same time.

If we play with one up front, Berba will do the job, Keane would have to adjust a bit and become more of a "goal poacher". Bent might do it as well, he has the instinct, you can tell. Yet, Defoe would have been perfect for this role IMHO... Luis Garcia, I honestly don't know him well to give an opinion. I must say though that our better signing would actually be agreeing a contract extension with Berba.

The keepers' story, Gomes is an improvement from Robinson in many aspects, just a bit concerned about the communication with the back 4, but I assume that if he managed to communicate in Dutch with his PSV defense, English shouldn't be a problem. Robinson as a backup would be good I believe, but just can't see it happening and I would bring in a young British keeper like Hart or the occasionally linked Hennessy, to battle for the backup role with Alnwick.

It's looking very good so far, might even say one of the most active and efficient clubs in Europe upon this part of the transfer window. Hopefully we will concentrate now that the players are in Spain in pre-season to offload the dead wood. After that, we will be ready for the icing of the cake and if he comes back from the squad from the Levante region in Spain, much sweeter the treat!!!

 

[lukespurs7]

As for now...

GOMES

HUTTON WOODGATE KING BALE

ZOKORA HUDDLESTONE

LENNON MODRIC GIO

BERBATOV

I personally rate JENAS as a good player, better in a box to box formation than Hudd or Zokora, but just can't see him fit in the squad Juande is (theoretically) forming, maybe instead of Zokora, but the Ivorian seems to have his total support for the DM position and Jenas might be a little bit more offensive than that (still not of the required flair and creativity as Modric). Maybe with the 7 men bench he will become Juande's utility man, something like the Premierleague's best 12th man if such a horrible NBAish comparison is allowed.

Both the Keane/Luis Garcia sagas, plus the fact of only playing with one up front, would make perfect sense to me.

As for Bentley being signed, I feel Lennon would still get decent minutes as his backup, or either being deployed on the left wing. The future would seem very dark for Steed, who I would allow to move really because he deserves full 90 minutes in a Premier League team only because of what he showed on the last season. He's getting older now and I reckon he'll want more minutes than what he is likely to get playing for us. But still, all this would depend on the signing of Bentley and I personally believe that with the addition of Gio and Modric, both Lennon and Steed would become better players as they won't have the sole responsibility of feeding the striker(s) and will play more freely, as well as being options themselves.

As for the DM, I am neither convinced by Zokora nor Tainio and would only deploy Huddlestone alongside and experienced "hound" in the mould of Gatusso or maybe an experienced player with an exceptional sense of positioning and teamwork as Albelda. I think this is the weakest part of the team by far.

The CB's, we would have been great with someone like Dunne. I personally believe that if a player like Cata Diaz is brought to keep the warm bench until either Woody or Ledley get injured, we would be repeating the Rocha story. I reckon we will have to stick to either Dawson or Kaboul and pray for both our starting CB's not to be injured at the same time.

If we play with one up front, Berba will do the job, Keane would have to adjust a bit and become more of a "goal poacher". Bent might do it as well, he has the instinct, you can tell. Yet, Defoe would have been perfect for this role IMHO... Luis Garcia, I honestly don't know him well to give an opinion. I must say though that our better signing would actually be agreeing a contract extension with Berba.

The keepers' story, Gomes is an improvement from Robinson in many aspects, just a bit concerned about the communication with the back 4, but I assume that if he managed to communicate in Dutch with his PSV defense, English shouldn't be a problem. Robinson as a backup would be good I believe, but just can't see it happening and I would bring in a young British keeper like Hart or the occasionally linked Hennessy, to battle for the backup role with Alnwick.

It's looking very good so far, might even say one of the most active and efficient clubs in Europe upon this part of the transfer window. Hopefully we will concentrate now that the players are in Spain in pre-season to offload the dead wood. After that, we will be ready for the icing of the cake and if he comes back from the squad from the Levante region in Spain, much sweeter the treat!!!

sweet, great analysis mate!

 

[Mornstar]

at seville, ramos played his team in a basic 4-4-2 whilst in posession, reverting to 5 across the midfield (with two pivots, whatever the hell this means) when defeding.

 

[Black]

I don't see Ramos going 1 up front even if we don't have 11 men on the field