New Stadium Details And Discussions

[Spursidol]

Every time I hear an update on the stadium it sounds further and further away.

Even this update which should be positive, seems to suggest we're some way from having everything sorted.

Think we'd all like things to move faster, but the Chancellor's announcement (plus other things already announced)

i) Ensures that the transport upgrade re increasing train frequency to Northumberland Park goes ahead (Mayor now has control of the West Anglia suburban line and transport upgrade funding is now assured)

This should be welcomed by Spurs fans and corporate sponsors as it improves transport access - and may make the stadium more attractive for non Spurs events such as concerts out of season.

ii) £500m guarantee for Harringay to develop the area will ensure that a good deal of regeneration of the Toteenham area can now go ahead.

IMO this will improve the general perception of Tottenham, making Spurs more attractive for both fans and corporates to visit for matches - and the non Spurs events likewise.

Both things would have been welcome a year ago - but at least they are now in place. Both will help Levy to finalise financing (eg naming rights deal, bank loans) once the stadium design, 'Wembley Way' design anything else are finalised. I'm still hoping for a January 2014 spade in the ground, but this could be tight.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

I don't think any of the money secured by this £500m underwriting commitment will go directly toward the NDP. If there is one benefit to THFC and the NDP, it is that potential lenders will see that the improvements to the surrounding neighbourhhod, needed to make the stadium development work, are going to proceed. That should make it significantly easier for THFC to secure the necessary funding.These things help to generate a sense of momentum and this sounds like a very important element of the overall package.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Think we'd all like things to move faster, but the Chancellor's announcement (plus other things already announced)

i) Ensures that the transport upgrade re increasing train frequency to Northumberland Park goes ahead (Mayor now has control of the West Anglia suburban line and transport upgrade funding is now assured)

This should be welcomed by Spurs fans and corporate sponsors as it improves transport access - and may make the stadium more attractive for non Spurs events such as concerts out of season.

ii) £500m guarantee for Harringay to develop the area will ensure that a good deal of regeneration of the Toteenham area can now go ahead.

IMO this will improve the general perception of Tottenham, making Spurs more attractive for both fans and corporates to visit for matches - and the non Spurs events likewise.

Both things would have been welcome a year ago - but at least they are now in place. Both will help Levy to finalise financing (eg naming rights deal, bank loans) once the stadium design, 'Wembley Way' design anything else are finalised. I'm still hoping for a January 2014 spade in the ground, but this could be tight.

I'd have thought that's massively optimistic if things like naming rights and bank loans aren't sorted out.

Obviously this is actually a step in the right direction, but it feels like there hasn't been much progress on the financing front generally in the last 18 months, which is what I meant by everything still feeling very far away.

 

[Spursidol]

I'd have thought that's massively optimistic if things like naming rights and bank loans aren't sorted out.

Obviously this is actually a step in the right direction, but it feels like there hasn't been much progress on the financing front generally in the last 18 months, which is what I meant by everything still feeling very far away.

I'm still optimistic, but tight as I say.

Finance is always the last thing to be finalised - it can only be done when a costed design has been done fior example. I'm assuming that the appointment of Poulous as new Architects is to tweak the existing KSS design and then costs it rather trhan a brand new design.

Usually with a big project like this several banks will be working with Spurs in building basic models (eg of revenues, operating costs, capital spend etc) so that when the final costed design is available the banking finance can be fairly quickly finalised. However I suspect the stadium financing will be more complex with several strands of finance including the naming rights deal, so all of these will need to be put in place. I am sure there will have been discussions on all the various financing strands - but how close all of the are to being finalised is anybody's guess - but it will all come together very quickly at the end, these thngs usually do. And the main point to take from today's announcements as David M and I have said in different ways, is that the risk to the lenders has decreased, and the attractiveness of Tottenham to corporate sponsors has gone up, so all important steps on the way.

But like everyone, it would be great if it were done faster !

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Sorry, but what does this part mean?

"The council said £1bn of investment was already committed to the regeneration programme, which comprises a range of different projects across the borough, including Tottenham Hotspur’s £400m stadium development plans, known as the Northumberland Development Project. "

Sorry I don't understand it

 

[whitelightwhiteheat]

TSH is right I think... the stadium does seem to get further and further away...

no funding/loans secured as yet to pay for it all?

we'll be looking at 2017 at the earliest at this rate, probably.

 

[spud]

Sorry, but what does this part mean?

"The council said £1bn of investment was already committed to the regeneration programme, which comprises a range of different projects across the borough, including Tottenham Hotspur’s £400m stadium development plans, known as the Northumberland Development Project. "

Sorry I don't understand it

I'm not sure that I understand your lack of understanding, coops. It seems to me that the council is simply including the projected level of our expenditure into central and council funding to come up with a headline-making total. Or did you mean something else?

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

I'm not sure that I understand your lack of understanding, coops. It seems to me that the council is simply including the projected level of our expenditure into central and council funding to come up with a headline-making total. Or did you mean something else?

Well, as I often state, I'm thick lol.. See, to me it reads as though the cost of our £400m development is included with this 'funding'. So, due to a very limited cognitive capacity, it sort of sounds as though the cost of our project is being footed by this funding, rather than THFC. Does that make sense to you?

 

[L.A. Yiddo]

Well, as I often state, I'm thick lol.. See, to me it reads as though the cost of our £400m development is included with this 'funding'. So, due to a very limited cognitive capacity, it sort of sounds as though the cost of our project is being footed by this funding, rather than THFC. Does that make sense to you?

I know someone that wishes it was!!

 

[spud]

Well, as I often state, I'm thick lol.. See, to me it reads as though the cost of our £400m development is included with this 'funding'. So, due to a very limited cognitive capacity, it sort of sounds as though the cost of our project is being footed by this funding, rather than THFC. Does that make sense to you?

I'm sure that the council would love everybody to think that, which is probably why it has used that form of words. The £400m is included in the council's total, but not in central or local funding of the area's regeneration. So it makes sense to me but, sadly, it isn't true: the club has to fund the NDP.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

I'm sure that the council would love everybody to think that, which is probably why it has used that form of words. The £400m is included in the council's total, but not in central or local funding of the area's regeneration. So it makes sense to me but, sadly, it isn't true: the club has to fund the NDP.

Cheers for that, spud. Well let's just hope that this will at least help speed things up a little. I believe that Levy has spent years trying to get the council/government to help with funding, due to the fact that they (especially the council) were trying to get us to foot most, of not all of the costs for the development of the whole area? So, if that's true, this must be considered a considerable step in the right direction?

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Yes: as spud says, the council and other organisations promoting the regeneration of Tottenham want to big up the apparent size of the project, so they are including the cost of the stadium development in the overall amount of investment going into the neighbourhood, which is reasonable.

But they're not saying that the NDP is going to benefit from subsidy.

 

[Bruts]

Hmm, while I don't have your technical knowledge and expertise - I've very much enjoyed reading your posts - this is what occurred to me. I'm really hoping Mr Levy isn't pulling the trick of dazzling us with such ambitious designs, that will be unlike all the other 'soulless bowls' and will be closer to the pitch with a better atmosphere and architecturally unique rather than just another shite 'off the shelf' bowl such as the Stadium of Light or Emirates, getting the approval, getting all the governmental bodies onside and then when it's all in position and ready to go presenting us with some sack of shit that looks like a big Riverside Stadium for two thirds of the price.

Not sure if you've been to the stadium of light but I thought for noise it's one if the best stadiums I've been too.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Yes: as spud says, the council and other organisations promoting the regeneration of Tottenham want to big up the apparent size of the project, so they are including the cost of the stadium development in the overall amount of investment going into the neighbourhood, which is reasonable.

But they're not saying that the NDP is going to benefit from subsidy.

So, and again I apologise for the question, how exactly have they included the cost of the stadium development in the overall application for this 'investment', if they aren't actually taking on that cost? Then, in turn, why would this 'investment' be given the go-ahead, when it's blatantly obvious that it's THFC who will be paying for the stadium developments etc?

I truly do apologise for the inquisition

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Not sure if you've been to the stadium of light but I thought for noise it's one if the best stadiums I've been too.

Comparable to the now legendary "Roker Roar"?

 

[Bruts]

Comparable to the now legendary "Roker Roar"?

Never heard that coopsie, but I remember thinking for a newly built stadium the atmosphere, acoustics etc were pretty impressive and certainly not a lifeless bowl like the emirates.

 

[spud]

So, and again I apologise for the question, how exactly have they included the cost of the stadium development in the overall application for this 'investment', if they aren't actually taking on that cost? Then, in turn, why would this 'investment' be given the go-ahead, when it's blatantly obvious that it's THFC who will be paying for the stadium developments etc?

I truly do apologise for the inquisition

As you yourself quoted: "The council said £1bn of investment was already committed to the regeneration programme....."

What it doesn't say is which bodies have made the investment - purposely, no doubt, in order to create the impression that the success of the regeneration will be due to the council. The press release concerned the Chancellor's announcement concerning £500m, to which you can add numerous other grants and subsidies. Then there is our approximately £400m. 'Investment committed', and not 'investment committed from the public purse'.

The fact remains that the NDP will be funded by the club. For it to be publicly funded would be against EU law (unless, as was mentioned above, you're talking about Stratford).

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Never heard that coopsie, but I remember thinking for a newly built stadium the atmosphere, acoustics etc were pretty impressive and certainly not a lifeless bowl like the emirates.

Really? Mate, the Roker Roar is now truly legendary. Just Google 'Roker Roar' (maybe you'll even find something on YouTube), but the name says it all

EDIT: assuming you've heard of their old stadium, Roker Park...

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

As you yourself quoted: "The council said £1bn of investment was already committed to the regeneration programme....."

What it doesn't say is which bodies have made the investment - purposely, no doubt, in order to create the impression that the success of the regeneration will be due to the council. The press release concerned the Chancellor's announcement concerning £500m, to which you can add numerous other grants and subsidies. Then there is our approximately £400m. 'Investment committed', and not 'investment committed from the public purse'.

The fact remains that the NDP will be funded by the club. For it to be publicly funded would be against EU law (unless, as was mentioned above, you're talking about Stratford).

Mate, that's an awesome post, thank you

 

[davidmatzdorf]

So, and again I apologise for the question, how exactly have they included the cost of the stadium development in the overall application for this 'investment', if they aren't actually taking on that cost? Then, in turn, why would this 'investment' be given the go-ahead, when it's blatantly obvious that it's THFC who will be paying for the stadium developments etc?

I truly do apologise for the inquisition

Again spud has already posted most of the answer. It's commonplace for a councils to take political credit for private investment into their area. In this case, it's reasonable enough: Haringey have granted planning consent for the development, have worked closely with the club to get the design right and to facilitate local transport and infrastructure investment and have campaigned for this essential, facilitating half-billion to underwrite the rest of the regeneration, without which we have been finding it difficult to arrange funding. They deserve some of the credit for the NDP, just as THFC deserve some credit for providing the focus around which the regeneration can happen.

Levering in inward investment from private developers is an important part of what a local authority does in a capitalist economy. When a council does this successfully, you can bet they're going to take as much of the credit as they can.

OK, it took a riot to make all this happen, but Haringey had the common sense (for a change) to see that the riot was the catalyst for regenerating the area, that they needed a focus for their campaigns to draw in public and private investment and that the (privately-funded) NDP was the only game in town. They could have been ideological arseholes about this, but they've been remarkably pragmatic and supportive of the club's ambitions, whilst also observing their responsibilities to scrutinise the proposals. Contrast with Islington, where the Arsenal development was deeply divisive throughout its development period and remains so to this day.

Don't worry about the "inquisition". The whole point of this thread is for people with some relevant knowledge to post informed answers to other people's questions. Polite enquiries such as yours get respectful answers. Negative, suspicious, hostile and ignorant assumptions get ticked off .