New Stadium Details And Discussions

[Bruts]

Really? Mate, the Roker Roar is now truly legendary. Just Google 'Roker Roar' (maybe you'll even find something on YouTube), but the name says it all

EDIT: assuming you've heard of their old stadium, Roker Park...

I meant I never heard it live in the ground as in being at a game there! Obviously I heard it on TV!

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Again spud has already posted most of the answer. It's commonplace for a councils to take political credit for private investment into their area. In this case, it's reasonable enough: Haringey have granted planning consent for the development, have worked closely with the club to get the design right and to facilitate local transport and infrastructure investment and have campaigned for this essential, facilitating half-billion to underwrite the rest of the regeneration, without which we have been finding it difficult to arrange funding. They deserve some of the credit for the NDP, just as THFC deserve some credit for being providing the focus around which the regeneration can happen.

Levering in inward investment from private developers is an important part of what a local authority does in a capitalist economy. When a council does this successfully, you can bet they're going to take as much of the credit as they can.

OK, it took a riot to make all this happen, but Haringey had the common sense (for a change) to see that the riot was the catalyst for regenerating the area, that they needed a focus for their campaigns to draw in public and private investment and that the (privately-funded) NDP was the only game in town. They could have been ideological arseholes about this, but they've been remarkably pragmatic and supportive of the club's ambitions, whilst also observing their responsibilities to scrutinise the proposals. Contrast with Islington, where the Arsenal development was deeply divisive throughout its development period and remains so to this day.

Don't worry about the "inquisition". The whole point of this thread is for people with some relevant knowledge to post informed answers to other people's questions. Polite enquiries such as yours get respectful answers. Negative, suspicious, hostile and ignorant assumptions get ticked off .

You, Sir, are a true gent . Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me.

I meant I never heard it live in the ground as in being at a game there! Obviously I heard it on TV!

Ah sorry, mate, I'll give myself one of these

 

[chrissivad]

Not sure if this is new or old

EnfieldSpurs Enfield Spurs

5h​

Planned stadium approach from the new planned entrance at WHL station. For me this brings the project together. pic.twitter.com/yIssvQlfpm

Spoiler

EnfieldSpurs Enfield Spurs

5h​

Front row proximity to pitch compared to Arsenal, Man City & Wembley and these comparisons in relation to WHL pic.twitter.com/5sWgksUfIx

Spoiler

EnfieldSpurs Enfield Spurs

5h​

NDP phase 1 progress pictures from June 2013. pic.twitter.com/E0leG6eUel

Spoiler

Enfield Spurs ‏@EnfieldSpurs

2m​

Minutes from the last official council meeting regarding the new stadium Feb 2013, final obstacles to be overcome http://www.minutes.haringey.gov.uk/Published/C00000118/M00006014/AI00032157/FootballStadiumPUBILC.pdf

 

[L.A. Yiddo]

Not sure if this is new or old

EnfieldSpurs Enfield Spurs

5h​

Planned stadium approach from the new planned entrance at WHL station. For me this brings the project together. pic.twitter.com/yIssvQlfpm

Spoiler

EnfieldSpurs Enfield Spurs

5h​

Front row proximity to pitch compared to Arsenal, Man City & Wembley and these comparisons in relation to WHL pic.twitter.com/5sWgksUfIx

Spoiler

EnfieldSpurs Enfield Spurs

5h​

NDP phase 1 progress pictures from June 2013. pic.twitter.com/E0leG6eUel

Spoiler

Enfield Spurs ‏@EnfieldSpurs

2m​

Minutes from the last official council meeting regarding the new stadium Feb 2013, final obstacles to be overcome http://www.minutes.haringey.gov.uk/Published/C00000118/M00006014/AI00032157/FootballStadiumPUBILC.pdf

All old stuff mate.

 

[L.A. Yiddo]

Haven't seen the updated pics of the supermarket though. Then again my interest in that is infinitesimal compared to the actual stadium..

 

[chrissivad]

could be an account to keep an eye on if he is just collection all info on the stadium. If he can keep it updated

 

[L.A. Yiddo]

could be an account to keep an eye on if he is just collection all info on the stadium. If he can keep it updated

Yep good to see the Phase 1 progress pics. I was wondering how that was coming along.

 

[Achap]

I have read over and over that "Arsenal got a grant to build their stadium." I think it's one of those false facts that has become accepted through repetition. Unless someone can show me some evidence, I'm going to continue to think it never happened. I have been living in Islington since 2000 and I keep an eye on this kind of thing, so I'd be surprised if they had piles of subsidy and I never noticed.

There was public money in the overall development, but it was in the form of grant given to Newlon Housing Trust to build the affordable housing. That enabled Newlon to pay Arsenal a higher price for the affordable housing, so it did help to fund the wider stadium development, in the sense that Arsenal lost less money subsidising the affordable housing than they otherwise would have done.

By contrast, we have managed to avoid providing affordable housing on site at all. One reason is that there are no longer any capital grants available to build affordable housing, when it is constructed as part of a larger private development. The housing association therefore pays far less to the developer, which was one factor making the NDP less viable.

This is the reply I received from the Club when I asked this question in April, 2011:

"Thank you for getting in touch and I apologise that no-one was able to get back to you sooner with an answer to your query. Please see a response below to your question regarding public sector funding.
There is a difference between public sector support and funding, or 'state aid'. There were elements of infrastructure delivered by the public sector through special partnership that, had they not been done, would have made the stadium (Emirates) undeliverable and unviable.
As part of the Arsenal project, there were a number of regeneration partnerships that were formed between Arsenal and the Housing associations, Arsenal and TFL and the LDA and Islington and The LDA and TFL.
Arsenal were part of a regeneration partnership which helped the Arsenal regeneration scheme become more viable and brought a substantial amount of public money to the wider scheme.
Money went into supporting affordable housing (£60 million) improving access (£5 million ) and improving transport( £7 million).
I hope this helps to answer your query on this matter.
Many thanks again,
The Northumberland Development Project team"



There is no mention of Islington Council providing direct funding, which they didn't - as was confirmed in a letter to David Lammy - MP for Tottenham, from Jeremy Corbyn - MP for Islington North.
The larger part of this funding was, as you said, the grant to Newlon Housing Trust.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Thanks, that's exactly the information we needed. I'm going to save that...

The infrastructure funding (access, transport) described there is precisely the same kind of funding that Haringey has, over the past couple of years - in much more difficult times - been scraping together for the NDP, hence the Stadium Approach proposals.

Of course, we don't have a housing association partner receiving £60m of affordable housing grant. But neither do we have to provide any affordable housing. Developers (especially if they have the good sense to appoint me ) sometimes can aspire to break even on their affordable housing, but it doesn't produce a profit, quite the contrary.

 

[Lilbaz]

Haven't seen the updated pics of the supermarket though. Then again my interest in that is infinitesimal compared to the actual stadium..

Some on ssc now.

 

[SpurSince57]

For those that haven't visited Tottenham since the end of the season, the building of the supermarket is proceeding apace—I'm told that it's two months ahead of schedule. The contractors also appear to be removing the scale model of the Alps from the site. The Cannon factory has virtually gone, and there appears to be a piledriver installed, so they aren't hanging around there either.

 

[SandroClegane]

Would love to see some pics of the progress, even if it's only the supermarket/land

 

[L.A. Yiddo]

Would love to see some pics of the progress, even if it's only the supermarket/land

Er, unhide the pics above!

 

[worcestersauce]

From those pictures it looks like Sainsbury's are breaking with tradition and having a blue and white store.
Thanks for the updates guys.

 

[SpurSince57]

Thanks, that's exactly the information we needed. I'm going to save that...

The infrastructure funding (access, transport) described there is precisely the same kind of funding that Haringey has, over the past couple of years - in much more difficult times - been scraping together for the NDP, hence the Stadium Approach proposals.

Of course, we don't have a housing association partner receiving £60m of affordable housing grant. But neither do we have to provide any affordable housing. Developers (especially if they have the good sense to appoint me ) sometimes can aspire to break even on their affordable housing, but it doesn't produce a profit, quite the contrary.

What the NPDT neglected to mention in their response to Achap were the whopping S106 payments Arsenal had to shell out—something in the order of £60m, I believe, for a new recycling facility alone. Their claim that Islington paid £7m for improving transport has to be balanced against a very similar sum Arsenal were going to have to pay for the installation of escalators at Holloway Road and refurbishments at Drayton Park—neither of which happened in any case.

Then, I'd hardly expect them to contradict the Dear Leader.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

What the NPDT neglected to mention in their response to Achap were the whopping S106 payments Arsenal had to shell out—something in the order of £60m, I believe, for a new recycling facility alone. Their claim that Islington paid £7m for improving transport has to be balanced against a very similar sum Arsenal were going to have to pay for the installation of escalators at Holloway Road and refurbishments at Drayton Park—neither of which happened in any case.

Then, I'd hardly expect them to contradict the Dear Leader.

Those payments reinforce Achap's and my point, they don't contradict it. The notion has got abroad that Arsenal had a great deal of free money from government grants. They didn't. On the contrary, they got bled for much larger versions of the S.106 payments that Tottenham managed to get cancelled.

One main factor in this was just changing times. We can't credit the NDP team's negotiating skills for the collapsing lending market.

I'd forgotten about Arsenal's contribution to the capital cost of the waste disposal and recycling plant. Unlike the NDP site, Ashburton Grove was occupied by about 20 operating businesses - and it had been a candidate site for the new recycling centre, as was the Lough Rd site between Holloway Rd & Caledonian Rd, which now accommodates the affordable housing and the recycling centre. As well as having to pay all those businesses to go away, Arsenal had to cough up for the (then controversial) recycling centre. All of those costs dwarfed the relatively small amounts of public funding that indirectly contributed to the infrastructure improvements and the larger amount of grant that went to the housing association.

 

[camaj]

For those that haven't visited Tottenham since the end of the season, the building of the supermarket is proceeding apace—I'm told that it's two months ahead of schedule. The contractors also appear to be removing the scale model of the Alps from the site. The Cannon factory has virtually gone, and there appears to be a piledriver installed, so they aren't hanging around there either.

I did say last month that the Supermarket might open this summer but that doesn't seem to be the case. I can't see it being much further off though.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

I did say last month that the Supermarket might open this summer but that doesn't seem to be the case. I can't see it being much further off though.

So, Autumn then

 

[SpurSince57]

I did say last month that the Supermarket might open this summer but that doesn't seem to be the case. I can't see it being much further off though.

Not a hope. Where did you get that notion from? Before Christmas is certainly a possibility.

 

[Lilbaz]

It's meant to be built around xmas opening early next year.

Should mean that we start on phase 2 around jan/feb