New Stadium Details And Discussions

[Lilbaz]

The deal will be contingent on planning permission being obtained, no doubt about that, so if it can't be, there will be no NFL.

With regard to alternative plans, the danger there is the planners will see possibility - such as keeping the listed buildings, or re-configuring the housing etc. The plans as they are (and as the club have approached every issue) will be presented as the only option on the basis of safety, the tall towers will be the only option for finance and affordable housing, etc. Every element will be pitched as the 'only way'. The reality is much could be changed. The pavement next to the listed buildings, for example, could be closed on matchdays, with a wider path behind the buildings and entrance to those buildings from the rear. (Just spit-balling ideas). It's just about the club making it seem as if there is only one way to get what they want.

Going back, as I sometimes do, to my own experience with DL, when he was talking to us, he tried to suggest that the only way THFC would be getting a new stadium would be if we were in Stratford and that, as a result, we would become West Ham's poor relation is we didn't get that stadium and were stuck with our capacity in Tottenham; he effectively ruled out development in Tottenham being viable. We know now that it is viable and I have no doubt that if they are forced to keep the listed buildings, there is a solution up their sleeves. (I would imagine, though, that they already know that they won't have to based on their discussions, and the 'red line' was the nationally listed Warmington House, which is why it has been retained in the plans despite there being a clear preference not to.

I hope planning goes smoothly, I suspect it won't be too much of an issue, but no matter what happens, there is little doubt that we will get there, within the timeline that has been set.

We have permission to build a 58k stadium (we reduced to 56k). The government have made new rules which means that new housing can be built with little permission.
Harringay, the mayor and lammy have said they are proud of the new design and want nfl. Osbourne himself met with the nfl trying to get a london franchise.

The stadium is going ahead with nfl we have already signed the deal.

As for the stadium not being viable. It wasn't till the mayor and harringay cut us a deal. No 106 payments and no affordable housing.

 

[whitesocks]

We have planning permission for the 56,250 stadium, without the NFL, in the old plans so that can be built regardless.

I don't see why you're concerned though. A deal has been agreed and announced, I doubt they can back out and I don't see why they would anyway?

Do we know that the tie in with the NFL was not in the plan all along?
Just maybe Levy was telling the truth when he said we could not afford a new stadium (on our own).

The deal with the NFL will be subject to a big sponsor showering us with cash, up front.
Otherwise there is little point.
There has been no itk speculation that we have secured this, unless that is what people mean when they say the deal with the NFL is signed.
Until the sponsor money is in the bag, then I'll continue to have concerns.

 

[L.A. Yiddo]

Do we know that the tie in with the NFL was not in the plan all along?
Just maybe Levy was telling the truth when he said we could not afford a new stadium (on our own).

The deal with the NFL will be subject to a big sponsor showering us with cash, up front.
Otherwise there is little point.
There has been no itk speculation that we have secured this, unless that is what people mean when they say the deal with the NFL is signed.
Until the sponsor money is in the bag, then I'll continue to have concerns.

Yes we know that was not in the plan all along because the previously consented plans have absolutely zero mention of the NFL in them. Not in the documents, the plans, the specifications, nothing.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Do we know that the tie in with the NFL was not in the plan all along?
Just maybe Levy was telling the truth when he said we could not afford a new stadium (on our own).

The deal with the NFL will be subject to a big sponsor showering us with cash, up front.
Otherwise there is little point.
There has been no itk speculation that we have secured this, unless that is what people mean when they say the deal with the NFL is signed.
Until the sponsor money is in the bag, then I'll continue to have concerns.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

1. Firstly, you have no evidence to say it's subject to anything.
2. There was ITK a long time before it was announced and especially there was a snippet the day before it was announced saying that it was signed, sealed and delivered .
3. It is a signed contract. It's done. End of.

 

[beats1]

Yes we know that was not in the plan all along because the previously consented plans have absolutely zero mention of the NFL in them. Not in the documents, the plans, the specifications, nothing.

TBF we don't know that either as we haven't submitted plans in a long time. IMO NFL came on the cards when we started considering Stratford, call it 2+2 but I do think AEG played a part in us starting to look at the prospect of NFL

I still think AEG will be the stadium operators as well as otherwise they would have made a bid for OS afterwards

I have no idea what you are talking about.

1. Firstly, you have no evidence to say it's subject to anything.
2. There was ITK a long time before it was announced and especially there was a snippet the day before it was announced saying that it was signed, sealed and delivered .
3. It is a signed contract. It's done. End of.

We haven't signed a contract for a franchise and just having a 2 games a season isn't financially viable for making big expensive changes to the design, which has affected the amount of housing we can make as we have reduced the size of one of the residential towers to accommodate the pitch, the size of the kop, the load above the north stand and rake of the kop

Though I do think we have assurances for a franchise

 

[L.A. Yiddo]

TBF we don't know that either as we haven't submitted plans in a long time. IMO NFL came on the cards when we started considering Stratford, call it 2+2 but I do think AEG played a part in us starting to look at the prospect of NFL

I still think AEG will be the stadium operators as well as otherwise they would have made a bid for OS afterwards

We haven't signed a contract for a franchise and just having a 2 games a season isn't financially viable for making big expensive changes to the design, which has affected the amount of housing we can make as we have reduced the size of one of the residential towers to accommodate the pitch, the size of the kop, the load above the north stand and rake of the kop

Though I do think we have assurances for a franchise

More responding to the "Do we know that the tie in with the NFL was not in the plan all along?" statement. 'All along' to me means from the beginning, which plainly the tie in with the NFL was not in the plan back in 2008.

Totally agree about AEG and Stratford. All of a sudden there was the possibility of a multipurpose venue there which, once the bid to demo the OS was quashed, led us onto revising the whole NDP plan (and getting Populous on board).

 

[davidmatzdorf]

It's hard to know where to start with the amount of nonsense building up here.

I've gone through all the plans from the approved KSS scheme more than once. There is no provision for NFL games there, so there is no way that the possibility was taken into account back then.

The NFL contact had nothing to do with the Stratford bid. There is no evidence to indicate this and no reason why there might have been a connection.

The expanded stadium isn't being funded solely, or even primarily on the NFL use. It's being funded on the increased turnover from an extra 5k seats and the increased sales receipts from nearly twice as much housing and the naming rights deal.

As I've written many times, once you are building a big stadium, the marginal costs of adding 5k seats are not that great. You're already digging foundations and creating a pitch and dealing with getting thousands of people in and out safely and erecting a huge structure. This is especially so if, as Populous have done, you can fit an extra 5k seats into the original envelope (or near as dammit).

I don't know where @whitesocks and @beats1 are getting this stuff, but it's very fanciful. You don't let a £49m contract, subject only to winning the high court CPO appeal, unless you have a reasonably clear idea where your money is coming from. A contract like that is a capital commitment. If you don't have funding to meet that commitment, you can become insolvent, very suddenly.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

TBF we don't know that either as we haven't submitted plans in a long time. IMO NFL came on the cards when we started considering Stratford, call it 2+2 but I do think AEG played a part in us starting to look at the prospect of NFL

I still think AEG will be the stadium operators as well as otherwise they would have made a bid for OS afterwards

We haven't signed a contract for a franchise and just having a 2 games a season isn't financially viable for making big expensive changes to the design, which has affected the amount of housing we can make as we have reduced the size of one of the residential towers to accommodate the pitch, the size of the kop, the load above the north stand and rake of the kop

Though I do think we have assurances for a franchise

I never mentioned a franchise.

 

[worcestersauce]

I never mentioned a franchise.

There will be one though.

 

[yankspurs]

@yankspurs seems to think we'd build a joint stadium without assurances the facilities would be used. To be honest, you nor anyone else knows what the NFL are planning. As much as you say it won't happen because this and that, money talks. If we pay and support a franchise, it'll happen.

Uhh no. The facilities will be used for the couple of UK games a season it's contracted for. For now, it's a 10 year contract. We'll see what happens beyond the contract, if games are added to the current slate - i believe it's only 2 games currently. IMO, they will want to increase the 4 games they currenty play now in the UK to a full slate of 8 games in the same stadia(ours) to see how it works. In those 8 games, if there are teams slated to play there twice in a season, the aftermath of that will be a huge tell. ie, what happens the rest of the season, how the team and organization handle it, how the bottom line of the franchise was effected. Once they see that, and get the opinions of the team(s), then they'll make the decision of whether to forge ahead trying to solve the other issues that remain. IMO, I just dont see a full blown organization based in London as feasible.

With regards to timeline: Expect the currently slate of 2 games in the stadium to be for at least 3 seasons to see how the stadium and pitch surfaces hold up. Then they'll increase it to the current slate of 4 games for another 3 years. After that, they'll go to 8 games. At first with different teams each game for 2 seasons. Then another 2 or 3 of the same team playing 2 games in London(1 as the home team, 1 as the away team). That will probably be the duration of the 10 year contract at the new stadium. Beyond that, we'll see.

 

[beats1]

It's hard to know where to start with the amount of nonsense building up here.

I've gone through all the plans from the approved KSS scheme more than once. There is no provision for NFL games there, so there is no way that the possibility was taken into account back then.

The NFL contact had nothing to do with the Stratford bid. There is no evidence to indicate this and no reason why there might have been a connection.

The expanded stadium isn't being funded solely, or even primarily on the NFL use. It's being funded on the increased turnover from an extra 5k seats and the increased sales receipts from nearly twice as much housing and the naming rights deal.

As I've written many times, once you are building a big stadium, the marginal costs of adding 5k seats are not that great. You're already digging foundations and creating a pitch and dealing with getting thousands of people in and out safely and erecting a huge structure. This is especially so if, as Populous have done, you can fit an extra 5k seats into the original envelope (or near as dammit).

I don't know where @whitesocks and @beats1 are getting this stuff, but it's very fanciful. You don't let a £49m contract, subject only to winning the high court CPO appeal, unless you have a reasonably clear idea where your money is coming from. A contract like that is a capital commitment. If you don't have funding to meet that commitment, you can become insolvent, very suddenly.

I never mentioned 5k seats, what I did say was that we are making expensive changes to the design for just two games yes there is additional revenue from rent but imo the big changes to the stadium are done for a franchise rather than two games a season. I agree that adding 5k seats wont make a big difference in costs.

We are make a simple design a lot more complex and this has led to us redesigning the whole south development and there was a couple different design concept on how we would support the southern residential building as part of it over hangs the sliding pitch.

We made changes to the foundations supporting that building(including making it the smallest residential building as well as we now have a large public square area on top. Which looking at the KSS later designs, we tried to make use of all the area we had. Part of the reason of having a large open space is due to the sliding pitch

As for the NFL connection, there is a reason why it does have to do with the Stratford bid. I did say it may 2+2=5, but heres why there is a very strong connection with the stratford bid and NFL, that comes in the form of AEG.

Before then there was no suggestion that we were looking to bid for a NFL link or anything however we did team up with AEG and did have plans for a bigger stadium but we don't see the full plans which was about 61k but that was partly due to the transport issues at WHL

However AEG having been working with the NFL for years, trying to start a franchise. One of the reasons @L.A. Yiddo agreed with me is that AEG have been trying hard to get a team in LA. They haven't been able to get franchise to move to LA. and one of the possible solutions/rumours a couple of years back was that in order to add a team you would have to have at least 2 teams join the league. Thats why at the time there were rumours of a LA and London team to appease the league and keep an even number.

AEG have been in charge of the LA bid and were planning to build this stadium called farmers field:

Also I didn't say that the Stratford bid had anything to with NFL explicitly but the bid with AEG leads me to believe it did

This post is a bit of rush so may have missed things out

 

[beats1]

Also I would mention that one of the other reasons why I think AEG have helped us in the NFL bid is because despite people telling @yankspurs he is being very negative and sounds wrong.

He and other americans, could testify that the NFL has been a mess and an absolute disaster to do deal with and the fact we have got so far with the NFL leads me to believe we have had outside help.

The NFL have been shocking to deal with, in terms of getting a franchise to LA, who have a lot less barriers and hurdles than we do. They also have a lot more money than us as well as that stadium above was a part of a billion dollar bid though the only thing we would do is open up the game to a brand new market which would make potentially other teams richer though adding a team over playing some games there is debatable

 

[yankspurs]

Also I would mention that one of the other reasons why I think AEG have helped us in the NFL bid is because despite people telling @yankspurs he is being very negative and sounds wrong.

He and other americans, could testify that the NFL has been a mess and an absolute disaster to do deal with and the fact we have got so far with the NFL leads me to believe we have had outside help.

The NFL have been shocking to deal with, in terms of getting a franchise to LA, who have a lot less barriers and hurdles than we do. They also have a lot more money than us as well as that stadium above was a part of a billion dollar bid though the only thing we would do is open up the game to a brand new market which would make potentially other teams richer though adding a team over playing some games there is debatable

Firstly, wrt LA, there's a good chance the Chargers or Rams move out there due to their stadium situations with their current cities. The stadium design was made with help from both franchise's, IIRC.

Secondly, it's absurdly difficult to deal with the NFL. There's almost no point to it. They dont seem willing to negotiate anything. It's very much like it's either there way or the highway. Cant really get them to come down on things at all and when they lose things, they still fight it(just ask Tom Brady). I honestly wish I was a fly on the wall during the negotiations between Levy and Gooddell during those negotiations.

 

[SandroClegane]

Firstly, wrt LA, there's a good chance the Chargers or Rams move out there due to their stadium situations with their current cities. The stadium design was made with help from both franchise's, IIRC.

Secondly, it's absurdly difficult to deal with the NFL. There's almost no point to it. They dont seem willing to negotiate anything. It's very much like it's either there way or the highway. Cant really get them to come down on things at all and when they lose things, they still fight it(just ask Tom Brady). I honestly wish I was a fly on the wall during the negotiations between Levy and Gooddell during those negotiations.

NFL on the business side is extremely savvy and has done an excellent job. Stop looking at Goodell and the players side of things, it's much different than anything else and can't be compared. Unless you work on the business side of sports you have no insight here.

 

[Breezer]

Not much has changed since my last update but these pics were taken 1-2hrs ago.

 

[spursfan77]

AEG won't be having anything to do with the new stadium. Our partnerships with them died with the Olympic Stadium. Please don't go down the AEG road, it's not going to go anywhere.

 

[Lilbaz]

AEG won't be having anything to do with the new stadium. Our partnerships with them died with the Olympic Stadium. Please don't go down the AEG road, it's not going to go anywhere.

Leinweke (sp) also left aeg and moved to maple sports (who own toronto). When we sold defoe they agreed to distribute our merchandise throughout canada and leiweke said that he was also helping us with our new stadium. I believe he is leaving maple leaf sports soon as well.

 

[spursfan77]

Leinweke (sp) also left aeg and moved to maple sports (who own toronto). When we sold defoe they agreed to distribute our merchandise throughout canada and leiweke said that he was also helping us with our new stadium. I believe he is leaving maple leaf sports soon as well.

Yeah I remember that. Maybe he's going to help us out. But in terms of the AEG organisation in the UK, their involvement with us has ended.

 

[Lilbaz]

Yeah I remember that. Maybe he's going to help us out. But in terms of the AEG organisation in the UK, their involvement with us has ended.

We might still have contact with them and they might still use our new stadium for concerts etc... But yes i agree that mostly our deal died with the os bid.

 

[L.A. Yiddo]

Leinweke (sp) also left aeg and moved to maple sports (who own toronto). When we sold defoe they agreed to distribute our merchandise throughout canada and leiweke said that he was also helping us with our new stadium. I believe he is leaving maple leaf sports soon as well.

He's definitely good mates with Levy. I met the both of them at the British Consulate in L.A. a few years back. Would be interesting to see what his involvement would be.